91 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

First off, I want to say I like the concept of the movement system. I think doing it by size/weight is a good idea, and overall, it's solid.

However, there is a problem with it beyond it's massive over-punishment to Mediums and Heavies - and this problem makes it INCREDIBLY frustrating/irritating: Since it drops your speed to 0, you will often run out of speed/momentum right at the very top of a hill. There is solid ground just in front of your foot, but you can't take a step forwards, because technically you are still "on an angle" - despite literally having flat land in your face.

No more than ten times on Canyon Network today have I made it to the very edge at a critical moment, then literally had no way to continue up the hill. This is also going to completely destroy non-jumping builds, as they are now almost required to move on a normal map.

Thus I am strongly, strongly suggesting that instead of reducing a 'mechs speed to 0, the new minimum is 1. That will make it have a huge impact on terrain movement and how 'mechs react in a fight, yet, in these situations where you ALMOST clear the hill, you can actually continue to clear it and right yourself.

Sure, assaults could still climb rough terrain... but is that really so bad if they're doing it at 1 kp/h?

TL/DR: Add a VERY small forward movement minimum to prevent getting hung up on extremely frustrating stuck spots!

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 July 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[BladeSplint]

So basically you want them to undo the entire movement system they just put in?

Re-learn the maps properly, then you can start complaining.

[Victor Morson]

BladeSplint, on 02 July 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

So basically you want them to undo the entire movement system they just put in?

Re-learn the maps properly, then you can start complaining.

Absolutely not, did you read what I wrote at all?

I am saying that 'mechs are currently getting almost to the peak of a hill - to the point that, visually, they merely need to take another couple steps to return to full speed - but petering out of speed so just "lock up" on the borders.

Here's a diagram of what I'm talking about (yellow part is the hill):


Reducing 'mechs speed to 1 is a huge deal and would make traversing impassable terrain very, very difficult while at the same time still preventing.. this.

Running up hills and getting "hung up" feels like you're hitting a collision bug and suddenly just "hang." It doesn't feel natural or right, unlike the overall slowdown.

Undoing the movement system =/= Allowing for 1 kph (or less) of movement to right yourself.

EDIT: It needs to be drastically less severe on 45-60 tonners/size 'mechs, though.

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 July 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Monky]

Movement speed is entirely fine. I was skeptical at 20 degrees and 45 degrees being key numbers but it actually works really well and defines go-no go areas. My only complaint is that jumpjets can't propel me forward.

[jakucha]

I like it where it is.

[Victor Morson]

Monky, on 02 July 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Movement speed is entirely fine. I was skeptical at 20 degrees and 45 degrees being key numbers but it actually works really well and defines go-no go areas. My only complaint is that jumpjets can't propel me forward.

Have you tried driving a medium, or are you a light pilot?

90% of the hills will allow you to reach the top so that your 'mech could literally fall forwards and be on flat terrain, but the 'mech instead will completely halt to 0, until you run down the hill, loop around, and run back up it.

This has essentially murdered non-jumping builds entirely.

[jakucha]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

This has essentially murdered non-jumping builds entirely.

I disagree as a hunchback pilot. I do however think it's good that JJ got a massive boost they needed in a form of something that isn't poptarting. They could also use vector JJs but that's another issue.

Edited by jakucha, 02 July 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Monky]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Have you tried driving a medium, or are you a light pilot?

90% of the hills will allow you to reach the top so that your 'mech could literally fall forwards and be on flat terrain, but the 'mech instead will completely halt to 0, until you run down the hill, loop around, and run back up it.

This has essentially murdered non-jumping builds entirely.

Highlander, Atlas, Catapult, Jaegermech. Have ran the Highlander and Jaeger so far in matches and it seems to perform well. If you hit a stop, turn to the side to regain momentum, and watch where you're going.

[Homeless Bill]

I'd say it should be ~10kph on slopes from 45 to 55 degrees. Anything over that should be a dead stop; I absolutely refuse to support going up ridiculously steep surfaces, even at 1kph.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 02 July 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[keith]

ya a 45 degree slope should not stop a multi ton war machine. it would still go up the hill at some speed, just no reach a dead stop within .5 sec

[NinetyProof]

Ahh ... don't go up those areas?

Basically, everyone has to relearn where their mechs can go. Asking for a change, this early, is stupid and frankly immature.

Changes like this need time to "bake in".

Besides ... the problem might just be that YOU need a LARGER engine if you want to get to certain places. What chassis were you running and what size engine did you have?

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Being stopped by a tiny ramp my mechs foot can literally step over is a problem.

The new system doesnt need to go, but it needs modification badly.

[Gamgee]

Sounds like complaining to me.

[Victor Morson]

NinetyProof, on 02 July 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Ahh ... don't go up those areas?

Don't go to Canyon network?

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I was playing Canyon and got stopped by a small ridge that went up to my Awesomes shins.

That shouldnt be happening.

[Monky]

See - the complaints about small obstacles I can understand and needs to be addressed.

[Victor Morson]

Monky, on 02 July 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

See - the complaints about small obstacles I can understand and needs to be addressed.

That is precisely what this thread was about from the start, honestly.

[RG Notch]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

This has essentially murdered non-jumping builds entirely.

Always with the insane sky is falling hyperbole, then always shocked when people are just meh. I know some people think unless you make a huge stink nothing will happen. But you make a huge stink out of everything and guess what nothing happens. Dial it down a notch and maybe get better results.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I completely agree. Did some testing early and I had my Stalker come to a complete stop on a friken ripple in the snow, you know the ones in the relatively flat valleys BETWEEN the hills. The ripple couldn't have been more than 2-3m in height yet it stopped all forward momentum as if it was a solid 20m tall wall. This is a bit over much.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 02 July 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[CutterWolf]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

First off, I want to say I like the concept of the movement system. I think doing it by size/weight is a good idea, and overall, it's solid.

However, there is a problem with it beyond it's massive over-punishment to Mediums and Heavies - and this problem makes it INCREDIBLY frustrating/irritating: Since it drops your speed to 0, you will often run out of speed/momentum right at the very top of a hill. There is solid ground just in front of your foot, but you can't take a step forwards, because technically you are still "on an angle" - despite literally having flat land in your face.

No more than ten times on Canyon Network today have I made it to the very edge at a critical moment, then literally had no way to continue up the hill. This is also going to completely destroy non-jumping builds, as they are now almost required to move on a normal map.

Thus I am strongly, strongly suggesting that instead of reducing a 'mechs speed to 0, the new minimum is 1. That will make it have a huge impact on terrain movement and how 'mechs react in a fight, yet, in these situations where you ALMOST clear the hill, you can actually continue to clear it and right yourself.

Sure, assaults could still climb rough terrain... but is that really so bad if they're doing it at 1 kp/h?

TL/DR: Add a VERY small forward movement minimum to prevent getting hung up on extremely frustrating stuck spots!

I have to agree, I think reducing it down to 1 at 45 would be good and then going to a complete stop a 50 or better. This would better simulate that if you tried climb a hill that steep that your Mech would fall.