91 replies to this topic

[Hellcat420]

if your mech hits 0 speed it means the top of the hill is too steep for your mech to get up.

[CutterWolf]

Hellcat420, on 02 July 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

if your mech hits 0 speed it means the top of the hill is too steep for your mech to get up.

What your failing to understand that a bump the ground or trying to step out of water that has a 1 foot high edge is now unassailable. Its pretty bad seeing a mech come to a stand still on flat ground because of a small bump on the ground that it could other wise just step over.

[Victor Morson]

CutterWolf, on 02 July 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

What your failing to understand that a bump the ground or trying to step out of water that has a 1 foot high edge is now unassailable. Its pretty bad seeing a mech come to a stand still on flat ground because of a small bump on the ground that it could other wise just step over.

I think everyone that's jumped on this post isn't getting that. They don't understand that "really steep hill" =/= "small bump at the top of a hill."

[MasterErrant]

I've been waiting for this. this is a basic Battletech thing. mechs are big heavy machines climbing steepslopes is hard. we all just have to learn the limits. though it seems more affected by wieght than power. I just watched two lighter mechs that were slower than my take a slope I coulbn't tht's wrongish.
now there is even more rason for jjs

[Hellcat420]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think everyone that's jumped on this post isn't getting that. They don't understand that "really steep hill" =/= "small bump at the top of a hill."

hills are not a steady angle the whole way up. if you actually looked at the maps they put out last week or w/e you would see that the tops of most hills are too steep for a non jj mech to climb the whole way up, which is the way it should be. and its not a small bump at the top of the hill, it just looks like that because you are in a 60 foot tall mech.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

looks like someone has been playing so much they just b-line it to e6 on alpine EVERY TIME. Now you cant, boo hoozyez!

[Inkarnus]

only thing they should change is giving jumpjets a bit more speed to go forward
rest is fine at the first glance! wwich obviously you just catched

[Victor Morson]

Hellcat420, on 02 July 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

hills are not a steady angle the whole way up. if you actually looked at the maps they put out last week or w/e you would see that the tops of most hills are too steep for a non jj mech to climb the whole way up, which is the way it should be. and its not a small bump at the top of the hill, it just looks like that because you are in a 60 foot tall mech.

This is like climbing Mount Everest only to be unable to get to the top because there's a rock that goes up to your ankle in the way. It's just dumb.

If the slowdown took place over a slower amount of time, it would be different. Plus many of the places on the map DESIGNED to be used for cover are now inaccessible without JJs.

Mark my words: All you're seeing now is the death of the non-JJ 'mech until this is fixed.

[scJazz]

Hey Victor... can you just like uhhh... let whatever changes come in a patch like ummmm stew for about 30 seconds before starting a new poll and thread? Plz?

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

For all you wanting collisions back in the game. I hope they implement mech falling backwards on steep terrain and rolling down the hill end over end!

[oldradagast]

Agree with the original poster. To test how bad it could be,I had my Atlas grind to a complete stop on a small crystal "bump" on Tourmaline. It was absurd, and that map is littered with those things.

I like the concept of the movement limitations, and even as-is, it has fixed more problems than it has created (I think) by ending most lunacy on Alpine and Tourmaline (mechs climbing near vertical walls), but the problem demonstrated by the original poster is a real one, and huge war machines shouldn't be stopped cold by rocks that are, compared to people, about as big as a phone book. It's easy to say "relearn the maps" but the hard-stop system can be so random at times it is hard to tell if you're on the "right" path until you hit 0 (and get killed as a motionless target stuck on a hill top), and there's no way to "relearn" the maps to avoid every little table-sized rock that now stops you cold.

Anyway, they are CLOSE to having something that really works, but it still needs some tweaking.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 July 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[blinkin]

i think they will need to make some adjustments to some of the levels themselves, but i would generally prefer to not lose this small shift towards a simulator.

[Unbound Inferno]

No, although it could solve this issue, it would open up another where it would defeat the purpose of this entirely.

The goal is to limit travel paths and prevent some mechs from climbing where they shouldn't. Minimum movement speed would end up still allowing them to climb to it.

It would be better to petition a minor change on a map to make it easier to find climbing paths from ditches or smothen the river sides to allow climbing than to do this.

[Victor Morson]

blinkin, on 02 July 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

i think they will need to make some adjustments to some of the levels themselves, but i would generally prefer to not lose this small shift towards a simulator.

Again, I like the system because at it's core it's purpose is to make smaller mechs have an easier time moving over rough terrain. That's really cool. I'm TOTALLY for that. I was excited for it. I didn't even think for a minute they could screw it up remotely this badly.

In other words I was expecting my speed to trail off on steeper terrain, with some minor differences in what I could traverse at the top.

I was not expecting to come to a smashing halt because I bumped into a slightly tiny higher pile of dirt between me and the top of the hill.

[Victor Morson]

Unbound Inferno, on 02 July 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

The goal is to limit travel paths and prevent some mechs from climbing where they shouldn't. Minimum movement speed would end up still allowing them to climb to it.

That's not the goal.

The goal is to make light/medium 'mechs have an easier time moving over rough terrain, thus netting them a huge mobility advantage. This offers a lot of chances for future map designers to play with the concept and make some really rough terrain.

It's not meant to make an assault unable to get past a bump in the road. It's not even really meant to restrict movement past what we had all that much, but it does open up the idea of "light shortcuts" that heavies can't maneuver well.

In otherwords:

NOT THE POINT - Atlas stubs it's toe walking up a hill on Canyon network and now must loop around and try again.

THE POINT - A Centurion bolts up a hill in a dogfight with Atlas in Canyon network, but the Atlas has trouble reacting because it simply can't follow without crawling to an even slower movement pace. The Centurion then is free to bolt up and down at will, going places Assaults can't follow.. effectively.

That's why I say a 1 speed crawl would fit the spirit of the system better. Not a 0 speed dead stop. Or a longer degrading throttle.

If your Jenner can move up a hill at 80% speed, pulling over 100 but an Assault can only pull up a hill at 20% speed - already being slow - you've just given mediums and heavies a HUGE ADVANTAGE THEY NEED.

THAT is the focus of this system.

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 July 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Sybreed]

agreed.

Although I haven't played the new patch, I can already tell stopping to absolute zero is gonna be extremely annoying. Slowing at 1% of your speed or 1km/h max should be more than enough.

[Lt Limpy]

Movement speed is fine. As others have said, relearn how you drive the mech. It took me exactly half a second to figure out that when you come to a dead stop at the top of the hill to shift my legs parallel to it in order to resume forward movement.

[skullman86]

I think the mechanic is great idea, but it's pretty unforgiving at the moment. Deceleration and full on stopping for slight variances in terrain seems a little too fast IMO, and areas with object/terrain mesh bugs aren't really helping either.

[TehSBGX]

Basically the system will take getting used to but it is pretty interesting so far. It should stay possibly with some map tweaks since there are spots on Canyon network that look like a medium should be able to get up there but can't. Give a bit OP, you'll get used to it and Map tweaks might happen too.

Edit - Re-read the post and 1% instead of a full stop might be okay. I'd still prefer some map tweaks though.

Edited by TehSBGX, 02 July 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Lt Limpy, on 02 July 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Movement speed is fine. As others have said, relearn how you drive the mech. It took me exactly half a second to figure out that when you come to a dead stop at the top of the hill to shift my legs parallel to it in order to resume forward movement.

They took a wonderfully designed system that allowed all the terrain on a map to be usable in one way or another, then added dead-halts that you have to map monkey out of.

How was this a good idea?

Keep in mind I think the SYSTEM is a great idea, but this is terrible. The actual concept I'm behind.