82 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

Ok, everybody, time to be proactive here. We get a lot of people wondering what a good "first mech" is, and why they are good, and what they should spend c-bills on, and so forth. I'm thinking whoever wants to should get on here and offers their opinion of a good first mech, or good first mechs, or whatever really. The big thing is to just get opinions rolling to give people an idea what they might wanna look at.

Do take time to explain why you think a given mech is a good first mech. Don't just throw a list up here, but point out what about the critter you believe to be good traits.

For ease, don't do specific variants, but name whole model lines. Try to think of models with several playable and fun variants, so the new player can enjoy getting basic and elite efficiencies.

Also, this is NOT meant to compete or conflict with the already established "Mech Tier List" thread on here. That is a competitive list ranking mechs for higher level play. This is meant specifically to help new players to get a first mech they will enjoy, and that will help them to enjoy the game.

Feel free to discuss answers, but as always, keep it civil and helpful.

I'm gonna do one per weight class, just to get the ball rolling.



Ok, for the Light class, I have to go with the Commando. Yes, it doesn't do anything another Light can't do as well or better, but it does do almost everything. The only thing it doesn't have is jump jets and ballistic, and ballistic isn't really a needed thing among lights anywho. They are fast and fairly easy to pilot, they have great hardpoints, and they are indeed the cheapest mech in the game. A new player can get three Commandos for close to the price of one heavy or assault. They are solid, and they are cheap, and people keep playing them.


For the mediums, I hate to do this, but it's a tie between the Hunchback and the Centurion. The Hunchback has a lot of variants, all of which are at least viable, and really gives the experience of piloting a heavy with the cost of piloting a medium. Centurions are just all around good mechs that you see in all tiers of play. Everyone I know who has a Cent still pilots it, and generally does well with it.

For Heavies, have to go with the Cataphract. It's for similar reasons as the Cent or the Hunchback. It has viable variants, allows for a good variety of builds, can take a beating, and even has a Jump Jet model. Also, I still hold that the Ilya Muromets is one of the best Hero Mechs in the game, so if they fall in love with their Catas, they can grab one of those.

Assaults are getting harder to peg as they release more varied models, but I still have to go with the Atlas. It's only down sides are a lack of Jump Jets and a tendency to get focused. Other than that, it's one of the most versatile weapon platforms in the game, and even has an ECM model. The Highlander does come in a close second, but I could see it's somewhat-wonky hardpoint placement being odd to a new player.

Again, these are opinions, and are focused towards a newer player.

Alright guys, throw em out there.

[ShadowDarter]

I am going to say the Jenner, its a a all around working mech in the light weight class, it teaches the basics for all the mechs with the maximum fun factor.

[BoPop]

regarding a new player with a cadet bonus?

smaller = cheaper = faster upgrades = quicker mastery = battlefield terrain knowledge due to speed.

i'd say a cicada 3m (for speed, ecm and sex appeal) or maybe a jenner (for jumpjet speed fun), possibly a centurion (for durability and to pack a little punch). they're all pretty cheap and easy to get 3 variants of for 2xbasic. ELO 'should' keep you in brackets where you can be competitive with them in solo pug drops but know that in an 8 man drop vs 8 man, these mechs are only good if you've turned into a virtuoso by then.

then after you turn one of them into a little money maker you can work towards the fatter more expensive mechs. just my op

[Darwins Dog]

Following the example of the OP:

Lights: I would recommend the Jenner to pilots who want to play a harasser role. It hits hard and moves fast (jump jets make it even more maneuverable). The biggest downside is the cost of the 300XL which is nearly a requirement. You do have the champion mech for players who want to spend real money on a fully optimized chassis.
For players wanting to be a scout I would say commando because the non-ECM variants feel like less of a grind than the non-ECM ravens (and they are cheaper as OP mentioned). The Hero commando is also nice to add into the mix.

Mediums: I would say the hunchback is the best. The 4SP is such a solid mech, and the others are pretty easy to learn. You can also keep the stock weapons on all of them and do quite well. They run standard engines quite well too, so they are cheaper than many other medium mechs.

I would not personally recommend the centurion as the best loadouts are pretty different than the stock versions, though I wouldn't try to steer anyone away from them either.

Heavies: I don't actually own any heavies, so I will let others contribute here.

Assaults: I would probably say the Highlander over the atlas. They can do many of the same builds, but the highlander is faster and more maneuverable. Altases also draw a lot of attention, so they go down rather quickly. Highlanders seem like they can blend into the crowd better.

[mogs01gt]

As a new player, I will say do not get the Hunchie. Too slow, firepower all in right torso and LRMS/SRMs do not do much damage.... I wish I would have saved everthing and went straight to a heavy.

Edited by mogs01gt, 08 July 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Skydrive]

Well, lets see. Hard to tell since there is the idea of how players may want jump jets, have ballistics, missles, energy, etc. Well for lights I recommend the Commando. Back in Closed Beta, that was the mech I would run the most, and still enjoy running. In the lore, Commando's are often used to train mechwarrior jockeys, and I believe it is possibly the best light trainer in MWO as well. They got good arm movement range, with hardpoints that can pack a punch in said arms, thus probably the best mech for a player trying to learn how to play without arm lock on.

For mediums, well the player is new, so for the cheaper ones probably a Centurion or a Hunchback. Both can do quite well with a STD engine. You can get a heavy hitting brawler with the Hunchback, to a durable and deadly Centurion (so long as the player uses his sides to protect his CT). Trebuchets can run STD engines too, but they also run XL engines better then Centurions would. Blackjacks and Cicada's kind of need an XL engine to do their job.

Heavies... hmm, if the new player wants to be a fast heavy, maybe a scout (I know someone who is able to do this well), then a Dragon or a Quickdraw I recommend. If its fire support wanted, Jager or Catapult... and maybe Dragon. As for brawling, all of these mech's have their strengths and weakness's to that.

Finally assaults. Can't really say much on the Stalker, but if the player wants to tank, then probably an Atlas (or Highlander and I think Stalker). If the player wants to be able to move around somewhat fast, Awesome or Victor. If the player wants to bring in heavy fire power behind an enemy, Victor or Highlander. If the player wants to do support fire, either Awesome, Stalker, Highlander, or Atlas.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

I would leave light and medium 'Mechs to the experts. I would choose Jenners and Hunchbacks if pushed

Of the heavies, the Catapult is simple and strong - but the A1 and C4 variant can be tricky. The Jagermechs offer a broad variety of play-styles and are simple and are fragile enough to teach people quickly the benefits of cover and teamwork. Cataphracts offer a chassis that has energy, ballistics and jump jets - and a strong hero 'Mech for farming. Lots of good options in this weight class. I would go for the Cataphract.

Of the assaults - nothing is as simple as the Stalker. No arm 'Mechanics to worry about. Plenty of good builds from brawling, sniping to missiles. Relatively cheap to upgrade (no need for Endo Steel or XL engines).

[scJazz]

NOTE: I'll be coming back and editing this post as the day progresses and I have more specifics.


Primary Consideration: The mech has to be playable for around 8m or less. So it must include some type of upgrades whether those are XL Engine, Endo-Steel, Double Strength Heat Sinks or all of the above is left to the specifics.

Light
Initial Design: JR7-D New Player Config

Notes: Roughly playable at 8.5m . Use of XL Engine allows immediate sale of Standard 245 which will cover the cost of Endo-Steel and Ferro Fibrous armor. Additional Single Strength Heat Sinks added to allow playability without spending the additional unrecoverable on Double Strength Heat Sinks. The cost of the XL300 is justified by the fact that it is so widely used across every weight class. This allows for an "Instant Upgrade" to any future purchases.

Pros: Widely used and well regarded light mech. Jump Capable. Streak capable. Not including Double Strength Heat Sinks allows the new pilot savings and time to decide if Jenner's are for him.

Cons: Very expensive light design. All light mechs are expensive. Lack of Double Strength Heat Sinks intentional but does gimp the design.

Medium

Heavy
Initial Design: JM6-DD New Player Config

Notes: 8.6m for the initial purchase spends all Cadet Bonus earnings and then some. However the savings from not wasting the on a standard engine added to instant availability of an XL Engine to kickstart new mech purchases significantly offsets this drawback. The XL260 might not be perfect but being able to drop it into a very large variety of chassis for an "Instant Upgrade" makes the purchase of the JM6-DD highly desirable.

Pros: High mounted turret arms facilitates learning how to pilot without Arm Lock. No wasting ammo into the ground. Reasonably sturdy chassis. Between the 3 variants one can experiment with Ballistics, Energy, and Missile metas. Cockpit shaking induced by firing on enemy can not be underestimated, especially at the low to mid ELO brackets. Dual AC/20 BoomJager available as well as 6x AC2 Dakka Dakka.

Cons: No Jump Jets. Somewhat fragile with XL. Highly ammo dependent.

Assault

Edit: Fixed ammo screwup and CBills to . Thanks Kon

Edited by scJazz, 08 July 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

scJazz, on 08 July 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

NOTE: I'll be coming back and editing this post as the day progresses and I have more specifics.

Primary Consideration: The mech has to be playable for around 8m CBills or less.

Don't forget that cadets are earning normal CBills alongside the cadet bonus. If they average 75,000 CBills for the first 25 games, then that's another 1.8m on top of the 8m. Aiming for an initial "first 'Mech" build budget of 10m CBills is probably a good thing. I recommend it to this house.

Maybe something like this: STK-3F for beginners

Features: Not too far from stock. Drop LRM10s and ammo. Move SRM ammo to legs and add two more tonnes. Upgrade to DHS. Add two more large lasers to arms. Add DHS. Add AMS and ammo. Increase armour. Approximately 10m CBills. Three weapon groups recommended either - 1. Large lasers (left) 2. Large lasers (right) 3. SRMs. or 1. Large lasers (chain fire) 2. Large lasers (alpha) 3. SRMs.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 08 July 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[mailin]

The biggest problem I see with any lights is that in order to really excel in them requires a lot of upgrades (XL, DHS, endo and FF). Of the lights, in my opinion the Commando is the worst, mainly due to the lack of jump jets in all of them. Otherwise I like the Jenner F. No missiles or ECM to worry about, but with an XL it can get 6 med lasers on target fast, and with the jump jets it can go places landbound mechs can only dream of. The Jenner used to be the light of choice until ECM came out, then it was superceded by the Raven 3L. With changes to ECM, Jenners are on a more equal footing, but the 3L is still better overall. For mediums, I'd agree with Hunchbacks. I still recommend the 4SP to beginners. It has decent speed, doesn't have all the weapons in one torso, and is very inexpensive and easy to customize. Once someone pilots this mech long enough they are generally able to figure out where they want to go from here; whether to stick with mediums or whether they want something faster or something with more firepower. I try to avoid recommending anything heavier than a medium to new pilots. I find that slower mechs are much less forgiving in terms of overextending the battle lines.

[scJazz]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 08 July 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

[/size]

Don't forget that cadets are earning normal CBills alongside the cadet bonus. If they average 75,000 CBills for the first 25 games, then that's another 1.8m on top of the 8m. Aiming for an initial "first 'Mech" build budget of 10m CBills is probably a good thing. I recommend it to this house.

Yeah I'm trying to be overly conservative. They also get 1 day free Premium time. I've got to assume given the nature of the thread that we didn't catch the new player immediately and they have done "something".

[MavRCK]

I'd agree with zraven7's suggestion for the casual player new to MWO and needs to learn how to pilot mechs - the commando is a good cheap chassis who limits help a player learn the game.

( Lights are a bit more expensive than they first look because eventually they need XL engines, Endo-Steel and Ferrous-Fiber to be competitive! )

For the new player that has a history of playing mechwarrior, that player probably grasps the concept of independent torso movement and as such can jump into other mechs with jump jets especially in the light category such as the jenner.

Finally, for the new player thats,always ends up being competitive and min-maxes, screw the commando, jump in a raven or jenner.. and essentially follow zraven7's suggestions for medium, heavy and assaults - whose logic follows my tier list.

(Omfg do we agree on something? <3 )

Edited by MavRCK, 08 July 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[zraven7]

MavRCK, on 08 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'd agree with zraven7's suggestion for the casual player new to MWO and needs to learn how to pilot mechs - the commando is a good cheap chassis who limits help a player learn the game.

( Lights are a bit more expensive than they first look because eventually they need XL engines, Endo-Steel and Ferrous-Fiber to be competitive! )

For the new player that has a history of playing mechwarrior, that player probably grasps the concept of independent torso movement and as such can jump into other mechs with jump jets especially in the light category such as the jenner.

Finally, for the new player thats,always ends up being competitive and min-maxes, screw the commando, jump in a raven or jenner.. and essentially follow zraven7's suggestions for medium, heavy and assaults - whose logic follows my tier list.

(Omfg do we agree on something? <3 )

Dude, I never said I had problems with the logic of your list, just that it was in the wrong subforum.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

MavRCK, on 08 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Lights are a bit more expensive than they first look because eventually they need XL engines, Endo-Steel and Ferrous-Fiber to be competitive!

A fully loaded Jenner-F with XL300, 4xML, 2xSL, DHS/ES/FF and max armour comes in just over 10m CBills. More than an assault 'Mech. My suspicion is that a new player, having blown his cadet bonus and CBills from the first 25 games on an upgraded Jenner - will find it much, much harder to earn CBills than in a heavy or assault 'Mech.

[zraven7]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 08 July 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

A fully loaded Jenner-F with XL300, 4xML, 2xSL, DHS/ES/FF and max armour comes in just over 10m CBills. More than an assault 'Mech. My suspicion is that a new player, having blown his cadet bonus and CBills from the first 25 games on an upgraded Jenner - will find it much, much harder to earn CBills than in a heavy or assault 'Mech.

This is part of the reason I recommended the Commando. While cost is not as large an issue later on, it can be with your first mech. Commandos are just much cheaper.

Here...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7aa53082ba46c15

That's a completely serviceable Commando build. Not the best, not the worst, but it's entirely playable. It comes in under 8 million C-bills. Now, all the Commando's have the same max engine size. You can just pull that engine and place it in your other 2 Commando's as you basic and elite them out, and make mastering your first mech a supremely affordable experience.

Given, you can do this with other lights, too. The initial cost will just be higher, as a 210 is a relatively affordable XL.

Edited by zraven7, 08 July 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Koniving]

scJazz, on 08 July 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Heavy
Initial Design: JM6-DD New Player Config

PS: How do I get the C-Bill icon to show up?

Your build has 2 UAC/5 ammo, 1 AC/2 ammo and AC/5 ammo. The weapons are UAC/5 and AC/2.

P.S.
Use [ cbills] with no space.

------
Edit: I forgot about this.

This was a recent build I gave to Reslin when he first started. Even after buying several mechs after the fact he still swears by this being the best mech he's ever had.

Hunch 4G of dakka doom!

Later with funding, it was augmented with a better engine.
Upgraded Hunch 4G of Dakka Doom
(Versus my original design of Koniving's Assassin Hunchback of Doom where I use the DHS as padding against damage to my ammo, since in my own ELO people go for the legs once they realize how hard my hunch is to destroy).

My personal rig at the moment is this Heavy MG Hunchback 4G which performs like this. Videos are awesome. If it doesn't time skip, jump to 9:35 in. Enjoy!

----------------------

In the meantime in terms of a new player's Jager, I recommend this build of the more affordable JM6-S.
Why you ask? Reasons:

• AC/2s have incredible range and speed. This teaches aim and leading targets. With only two no macro needed. Furthermore due to the range, the player is not as inclined to feel the need to get insanely close thus significantly increasing their survival time.
  
• Small lasers deal their damage at really good speed, and if 6 smalls and 2 MGs can kill enemy lights within three seconds, even a new player should be able to leg a light in less than 12 seconds with 4 small lasers, assuring the light's impending destruction with minimal harm to the new player. Comes with great satisfaction, too.
  
• The UAC/5 is for emergencies against heavy and assault enemies at closer ranges to deal rapid damage during what would otherwise be a panic situation. Even with its jamming in the long run a UAC/5 can outperform a single AC/20.
  
• All 3 weapons can easily be managed on 3 firing buttons. Due to the rarity of using the emergency UAC/5, it could comfortably rest on number 3 on the keyboard if a third mouse button isn't tangible.
  
• Standard engine that comes stock will allow the player to survive unpleasant hits.
  
• Design of being left-side heavy is to teach the new player the important skill lost on many new players -- spreading damage and the sacrificial limb. (When under heavy fire, torso twist left and let them take their shots out on your right side. Aim the arms directly downward to have the arm soak some of the damage to preserve the side torso for longevity).
  
• Has AMS (Anti-Missile System) installed in case of enemy LRMs and/or Streak SRMs.
  
• Price tag is 8,125,955, which includes 2 spare medium lasers and 2 spare AC/5s to swap and play with at no additional expense.

Just a thought.

Edited by Koniving, 01 August 2013 - 06:40 PM.

[Hebdomas]

scJazz, on 08 July 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

NOTE: I'll be coming back and editing this post as the day progresses and I have more specifics.

Primary Consideration: The mech has to be playable for around 8m CBills or less. So it must include some type of upgrades whether those are XL Engine, Endo-Steel, Double Strength Heat Sinks or all of the above is left to the specifics.

Light
Initial Design: JR7-D New Player Config

Notes: Roughly playable at 8.5m CBills. Use of XL Engine allows immediate sale of Standard 245 which will cover the cost of Endo-Steel and Ferro Fibrous armor. Additional Single Strength Heat Sinks added to allow playability without spending the additional unrecoverable CBills on Double Strength Heat Sinks. The cost of the XL300 is justified by the fact that it is so widely used across every weight class. This allows for an "Instant Upgrade" to any future purchases.

Pros: Widely used and well regarded light mech. Jump Capable. Streak capable. Not including Double Strength Heat Sinks allows the new pilot savings and time to decide if Jenner's are for him.

Cons: Very expensive light design. All light mechs are expensive. Lack of Double Strength Heat Sinks intentional but does gimp the design.

The only mechs I can think of that would be 8million or under with some upgrades would be the hunchbacks, some of the trebuchet variants, centurions except the D, cataphracts except the 3D, and jagers if you don't use an XL.

My advice is to stop worrying about how much a mech is going to cost and find something that you will enjoy playing. If you're having fun earning c-bills will feel like less of a grind.

Your Jenner isn't taking advantage of the two missile slots. Here's a pretty common (though fully upgraded) Jenner build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c728dacb66426c5 You can swap the SRM4s for SSRM2s if you want, but be sure to include a Beage Active Probe to "disrupt" ECM so you can get a lock.
Yes it's expensive, but most fully upgraded mech builds are. You can buy a Jenner and a xl300 and use it like that until you get enough c-bills for DHS, Endo-Steel, and Ferro-Fibrous.

One thing I've noticed is that lights are really affected by the movement/slope changes. Hit a dip or a rock with a steep incline and your speed drastically goes down which makes you easier to hit. Generally for lights speed=life (or defense). Personally I'd stay away from lights as a first mech unless you know the maps really well and because of their overall expense.

Overall, for a first mech I'd recommend mediums or heavies. Assaults and lights can be expensive and tend to have a different playstyle because of their speed (or lack of).

[JudgeDeathCZ]

ATM for current game.
6PPC stalker
1GR+3PPC HGN-732

[zraven7]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 08 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

ATM for current game.
6PPC stalker
1GR+3PPC HGN-732

Do please elaborate as to why you feel this is a good choice. This thread is for newer players, and any information the can get will be extremely helpful.

[Koniving]

zraven7, on 08 July 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Do please elaborate as to why you feel this is a good choice.

I feel the person's pun here is the build is as simple as "point and click." However in the coming month or two between Russ's (CEO's) mentioned fix (Source: NGNG podcast 79, from 32 to 40 minutes in) on top of Paul's fix along with the 120% serious damage threshold and 150% you just explode threshold currently enabled, that build will no longer be remotely viable even for veteran players with superb heat management. Actually for comparison: a stock Locust would be more viable on paper at that point.

Edited by Koniving, 08 July 2013 - 12:01 PM.