184 replies to this topic

[Swamp Monster]

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.

I have nothing against implementing map modes that encurage more than death match games.

But, this is not the way to go. none of the wide array of, 2 map modes, 8 months after release work as intended.

When 2 light mechs can circle arround and completely negate annyone else on the team, its not working as intended.

If you try to counter these lights, and split up your force, your gonna get steam rolled by the other teams main force.

When an entire round can be played without anny combat, its not working as intended...

This culd be a great game, but at present, its merely mediocre, hoping it will get better

[MeiSooHaityu]

It isn't perfect, but the capture function serves a good function. The cap helps prevent matches being drawn out 15min because some mech is hiding in a corner somewhere and forcing a draw. Even if they changed it to (team with most people still alive wins), you would still have to wait 15min for the match to end.

If a light is capping your base, you might just need to go back and disrupt him. Most lights flee if a mech shows up.

Communicate with your team. Say "OMW back" if capping starts. If somone else comes with you, fine. If half the team goes back...well then you have a problem LOL.

Besides. When an enemy team starts getting the best of you, you can always start capping their base and split them up. If they don't come back to defend, you could win a match you might ordinarily loose. It goes both ways.

I'm not saying capping is implemented the greatest, but I think it serves a purpose. I would like to see a base that needs to be destroyed Vs being capped. That way light (which tend to have less firepower) would take longer to defeat a base. It would leave more time to react, and it would promote more fighting. The only downside would be if the remaining mech on a team had no weapons to attack the base with. Then again, that might just be the consequence of a poor build or just taking THAT much damage.

Either way, a destructable base for a win seems better than a captureable one.

Like I said, bases serve a purpose in this game, they should stay, but I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to the way they work.

[Ransack]

Swamp Monster, on 12 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.

This is not my experience

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I have nothing against implementing map modes that encurage more than death match games.

But the Assault mode is more than death match. In fact there is no death match mode.

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But, this is not the way to go. none of the wide array of, 2 map modes, 8 months after release work as intended.

but it is. The goals for the match are clearly stated on the screen. Kill all or Cap. How is that not working as intended?

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When 2 light mechs can circle arround and completely negate annyone else on the team, its not working as intended.

Defend your base

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If you try to counter these lights, and split up your force, your gonna get steam rolled by the other teams main force.

this is not true. You could also, ya know play defense

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When an entire round can be played without anny combat, its not working as intended...

As annoying as it can be, yes it is intended to work that way.

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This culd be a great game, but at present, its merely mediocre, hoping it will get better

This I agree with.

[LobsterPete]

I run my ECM spider for the vast majority of my games and get a kick out of the scouting aspect of the game (what little there is left). I'm also a 100% pugger.

So yesterday I drop on caustic. I see my team heading right, so I go left in to make sure we don't miss the other team heading to our base. I'm running around, don't see anything on radar or on seismic until I get over by the edge of the map. The whole other team is hugging the map heading to our base. So I type out "Lots of contacts in G1 next to map edge heading to our base". Well I see my team pretty much ignoring me and setting up camp around the crater.

So I pop my UAV thinking, this will get my team's attention. Nah, I had all 8 mechs of the other team walk from one side of my UAV range to the other. Actually one person did come back to help, but 3 others decided to go cap the other base in their assaults and while 3 more pitched tents in the crater.

It all ended up as expected. The guy that came back to help got hit by about 10 ppcs as the other team slowly made our way to our base. I had a lack of judgement and thought, well I can stop them from capping and maybe our guys can cap first if they wanna play that way. I didn't make 50 feet before getting my leg one shotted off.

So after the game, comes all the rage, "you cappers suck", "come out and fight losers", etc. This is when I facepalm. Come on people, you knew exactly where they are and where they are going but decided you didn't want anything to do with them. I guess there are just people that don't want to do anything but meet in the middle of the map. If the other team has a plan and get to the base, good win for them.

[Frisk]

Here is a novel idea:
DEFENSE

Edited by Frisk, 12 July 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

OP, if 50 % of your games end in cap then maybe you should be prepared for this and adjust your team strategy not QQ about it on the forums under the assumption that the Devs will alter assault mode because your post and opinion is so much more valid and convincing than the 20k other posts like yours.

[Red Beard]

Swamp Monster, on 12 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.
When an entire round can be played without anny combat, its not working as intended...

I agree, too many games are being won by capping, which, from the point of view of a purist, (which I am not), is not even a sound part of a good BT match. That said, capping is FAR too easy. I suggest making one of several possible changes. Either make the bases take a good deal longer to capture, or, require more than one mech from the same team to stand on the base and capture it. Both require more than just a small amount of experience or teamwork to pull off.

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

The cap helps prevent matches being drawn out 15min because some mech is hiding in a corner somewhere and forcing a draw.

This has not happened to me even once. Besides, that what Beagle Probes are for.

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Even if they changed it to (team with most people still alive wins), you would still have to wait 15min for the match to end.

No offense here, but your statement has the smacking of a little ADD. "...you would still have to wait AN ENTIRE BLOODY 15 minutes for the match to end." A match only lasts 15 TOTAL, so it would not be waiting for 15 minutes. More like fighting for 7-9 and waiting the rest. God help us should we have to wait a few extra minutes...And capping is not the answer to ADD.

[Lugh]

Swamp Monster, on 12 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

More than 50% of matches now, end in a cap victory.

I have nothing against implementing map modes that encurage more than death match games.

But, this is not the way to go. none of the wide array of, 2 map modes, 8 months after release work as intended.

When 2 light mechs can circle arround and completely negate annyone else on the team, its not working as intended.

If you try to counter these lights, and split up your force, your gonna get steam rolled by the other teams main force.

When an entire round can be played without anny combat, its not working as intended...

This culd be a great game, but at present, its merely mediocre, hoping it will get better

You could also keep your force with a square or two of home base until you can account for the whole enemy team too...

[Red Beard]

Ransack, on 12 July 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

As annoying as it can be, yes it is intended to work that way.

In fact, I cannot disagree with anyone's statement more than this. I cannot imagine that PGI made this game the way it is now and envisioned matches playing out with no mechs being killed. While the possibility does indeed EXIST, I am certain that there was no direct intention to create a game mode that encourages non-fighting the way that base capping does.

Ransack, you may find that sarcasm, while satisfying on a personal level, does not create your point for you.

[Lugh]

Ways to improve Cap madness.

1) add very difficult to destroy turrets to the pillars on the 4 corners and one in the center.
---set the time to destroy to a largish number requiring 500points of damage or so, which gives the defending team plenty of time to get back.
2) add randomly spawning NPC tanks and infantry that shoot at the cappers.
3) change the cap mechanic so that anything less than a full lance takes 4 times as long as it does now to complete the cap...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Red Beard, on 12 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

This has not happened to me even once. Besides, that what Beagle Probes are for.

It hasn't happend lately since the removal of R&R. Without R&R, now you might as well fight or cap because it doesn't cost you when you die or expend ammo. This would possibly come back into style if I know I could stave off a loss and force a draw (for more C-Bills and XP) if I ran off and hid.

As for BAP... Two problems. One, you need to be close for BAP to detect a shut down mech (200m I think). That's fine for Forrest Colony, but finding a mech hidden away in some corner of Alpine Peaks would be near impossible. It takes a third of a match just to walk half way across the place. Two, not all mechs carry BAP (maybe most don't). Unless I am using Streaks, I don't bother with it (I think it might help LRMs too if I recall).

Point is, if the bases were removed as is, we would still get threads about pilots hiding and forcing people to wait 15min.

I would like a mechanic to force the end of a match without killing the whole team for Assault mode. This "works" for now, but I wdo wish it took some effort to cap a base (like attacking the base and wearing down it's health).

[Ransack]

Red Beard, on 12 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

In fact, I cannot disagree with anyone's statement more than this. I cannot imagine that PGI made this game the way it is now and envisioned matches playing out with no mechs being killed. While the possibility does indeed EXIST, I am certain that there was no direct intention to create a game mode that encourages non-fighting the way that base capping does.

Ransack, you may find that sarcasm, while satisfying on a personal level, does not create your point for you.

I wasn't being sarcastic It's the truth. It is annoying, and it IS intended to work that way. I too have loaded up and slogged right when the other team went left. I'm not going to try to crawl back and look for them. No, It makes more sense to tickle their base and make them come to me. If it turns into a cap race then so be it.

There are two ways to win a match. Not one.

Edited by Ransack, 12 July 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Revorn]

Ligths are still OP.

[Jman5]

Stop trying to shift blame. It's your fault if you get capped all the time. Reconsider your positioning/strategy to better counteract base captures.

This is entirely an issue of learning to play. You have to learn map awareness, positioning, and the limitations of your team. It's trivial, but you need to put in the effort.

[Hammerfinn]

Short answer: no it isn't, idiots who try to run all the way across the map without a scout in their atlai are ruining the game.

I pug exclusively, and I have success if I am in a biggie and I stay within one or two boxes of the cap. Usually, if a biggie is sitting back saying "wait until we know where they are", at least a couple other guys will sit and wait with you; then you have a group that can plod to the enemy and dispense death.

Capping isn't the problem; lack of teamwork, impatience, and lack of tactical awareness are the problems.

[Kiiyor]

The game would be incredibly one dimensional without capping.

Assaults win by decimating their foes with cannon and laser. Lights win by out-maneuvering the enemy.

I hate losing to capping, but I would never give up the strategic depth it brings to the game.

[NRP]

PGI gave stats recently about how many Assault games overall are won by a cap. It was something like <20%. Basically, it's a non-issue.

[ChapeL]

I don't really have a problem with cap victory in assault matches since it is there for a reason and as stated above, happens fairly rarely.

On the other hand I would like to se some modifications to the conquest format.. It conquest's case, quite often you find yourself with the losing team with 7 mechs standing while the opposition only has a spider running for its life around the map. The score system allows this to happen.

I would suggest trying a different approach, the team that controls de majority of the bases at the end of the timer wins ( say 10 minutes, if it's a draw after ten minutes... the first team to take another base wins) and of course, destroy the entire enemy team and you win too.

[Shakespeare]

Cry more.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I think the aspects of base capping could be better... like the speed of the cap is dependent on map (Alpine and Tourmaline). There's more than just that, but it could be better on many different levels.

On the other hand, it doesn't excuse people from refusing to RTB, from not bothering to scout, and just waddling the way in some big mech into the "designated kill zones". Sometimes, you know what you're going to get if you continue to be a lemming.

Besides, I question those that make these posts whether or not they have driven a light mech themselves.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 July 2013 - 02:08 PM.