31 replies to this topic

[MourningZero]

Was I alone in thinking that the near future Dropship mode was going to be some kind of sweet game shaking change like:
Pick 4 mechs
Launch
Match start, select one of those 4 and be dropped onto the map via Dropship
Fight, die, return to mech select screen. Select from remaining 3, drop onto map via dropship (maybe be able to select different locations to drop in from based on game state)
Repeat until out of mechs

So when I read the following from Paul. I'm just kind of sad about the evolution of the idea.

Quote

Dropship has taken on the role of the pre-match lobby system that is on the horizon. Players will be able to bring up 4 (planned 4 for now, might have more) Mechs of a chosen weight class. Since the match has already been paired with the two teams involved, you would then be able to choose your ‘cool running Mech’ for the hot maps and your ‘more heat dependant Mech’ for the cooler maps. Further down the road we really want to give players the ability to choose cross weight class Mechs to bring on their dropship. That is a far stretch goal at the moment, but will always remain on the table for implementation pending time and resources.

This to me sounds like:
Pick 4 mechs from a weight class
Launch
Lobby screen shows up where you get to see the map and maybe talk to your soon-to-be team
Select one of your 4 mechs
Regular game with no other changes ensues

I like the pre-game lobby idea. I don't like that it devoured a planned feature that I was really excited about.

Did I get it wrong? Has dropship mode always been the pre-game lobby idea and I just read too much between the lines?

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Disappointing to hear that the dropship mode might not happen but god i have been wanting this pregame mech select feature forever since they keep adding hot maps. Is there any word on when this feature could make it in? Maybe this will encourage people to try things other than the good-at-every-map PPC/guass boats. And i know everyone that has dropped on Alpine with srms/pulse lasers will be happy lol

[MaxStr]

Eh, it kinda blows for people who enjoy the disadvantages of cool-running mechs as they can't mop the floor with the hot dakkamachines on the desert anymore. Yet one more reason to hate Alpine since everyone will be playing lights or ppc/missile boats.

Edited by MaxKarnage, 29 July 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Oppresor]

MourningZero, on 29 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Did I get it wrong? Has dropship mode always been the pre-game lobby idea and I just read too much between the lines?

No you didn't get it wrong; your vision is similar to a large majority of the MechWarrior player base that envisage the implementation of a structured tactical drop.

[Jabilo]

Being able to pick your mech to suit the map is the worst idea they have ever had.

In an environment where boating has brought us to the brink of game balance disaster they want to remove one of the last reasons to bring a balanced build - not knowing whether the next map will be hot or cold, long or short ranged.

Look forward to laser boats on cold maps, missiles spam on alpine, gauss rifles on caustic etc. etc. etc.

For better or for worse MWO is a game not a simulation - and a pretty simple one in essence.

There are none of the real world considerations you would get in actual warfare:

Different types of units to engage
Different lengths of engagements
Supply line issues
Changing environments

Its pretty basic point and click stuff and one of the only strategic challenges was random map conditions. Removing that is not a good idea in my opinion.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Jabilo, on 29 July 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Being able to pick your mech to suit the map is the worst idea they have ever had.

In an environment where boating has brought us to the brink of game balance disaster they want to remove one of the last reasons to bring a balanced build - not knowing whether the next map will be hot or cold, long or short ranged.

Look forward to laser boats on cold maps, missiles spam on alpine, gauss rifles on caustic etc. etc. etc.

For better or for worse MWO is a game not a simulation - and a pretty simple one in essence.

There are none of the real world considerations you would get in actual warfare:

Different types of units to engage
Different lengths of engagements
Supply line issues
Changing environments

Its pretty basic point and click stuff and one of the only strategic challenges was random map conditions. Removing that is not a good idea in my opinion.

Weird, notice how in the situations you cited there is more variety between games than in the current meta? It will make players needs to learn how to play more roles than just a sniper or just a brawler.

It also makes Alpine have a place now that you can switch to your faster/long range mech. Nothing sucks more than wanting to try out a new brawler build and auto-losing just because of a map.

Since it is restricted by weight class, now there is more reason to choose heavy or medium since there is more variety in the types of mechs in the class. Assaults are pretty much all slow, but heavies can be fairly well-armed but still reach 80 kph, same with mediums and if you choose mediums you could also switch to your cicada, effectively giving you access to 2 weight classes.

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 29 July 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Plonky]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 29 July 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Weird, notice how in the situations you cited there is more variety between games than in the current meta? It will make players needs to learn how to play more roles than just a sniper or just a brawler.

It also makes Alpine have a place now that you can switch to your faster/long range mech. Nothing sucks more than wanting to try out a new brawler build and auto-losing just because of a map.

Since it is restricted by weight class, now there is more reason to choose heavy or medium since there is more variety in the types of mechs in the class. Assaults are pretty much all slow, but heavies can be fairly well-armed but still reach 80 kph, same with mediums and if you choose mediums you could also switch to your cicada, effectively giving you access to 2 weight classes.

Also, I think a lot of the problems in the game currently are due to no weight restrictions on the teams. A PPC boat isn't as big of a deal when there's only one of them.

[Dracol]

Prior, dropship mutator was described as "choose one of four, no restrictions". Then, after months of playing and development, it feels like PGI has realized that weight limits/class limits are required to pull away from Assualt warrior online.

So the question is, would you rather have no wieght class limits and choose any mech out of your stable to be included in the 4 or would you rather have more variety in matches due to weight class limits but only be able to include one weight class of mechs in your drop deck?

[Plonky]

Dracol, on 29 July 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Prior, dropship mutator was described as "choose one of four, no restrictions". Then, after months of playing and development, it feels like PGI has realized that weight limits/class limits are required to pull away from Assualt warrior online.

So the question is, would you rather have no wieght class limits and choose any mech out of your stable to be included in the 4 or would you rather have more variety in matches due to weight class limits but only be able to include one weight class of mechs in your drop deck?

I actually don't think it needs to be an either/or thing. How about your dropship has a weight limit, and your four mechs must weight under that limit. That way you'd have a lot of flexibility in picking mechs, but you wouldn't be able to only pick heavy mechs. This would fit nicely with "realism" and also with the weight mechanics in other parts of the game.

It really depends on if and how they do respawning. If you can't respawn, then being restricted to weight class doesn't have much of a negative impact on the game (as all it's doing is giving you more options to pick a customized mech for the match). Yes, other people will also be able to pick mechs that are better suited to the map, but if you know what mechs are good for a map, you also know what mechs counter those mechs.

At the moment, you have to kind of pick a jack-of-all-trades mech, because you have no idea what map or team comp you'll be playing with. Picking any specialized mech risks playing an inferior mech for the conditions. I think it's a good thing to give people choice.

[Fugu]

So it's going to be: "See those four 'Mechs in that little ready field on the lower left? We'll show you what map you'll play on and then you pick one of them."
Instead of: "Pick four 'Mechs, drop on a map with one of them, get killed, pick one of the remaining 'Mechs, continue playing the match, repeat until out of 'Mechs."
Really?
That's incredibly disappointing!

[Redbeard the Elder]

Frankly, I just get tired of my brawler short-range Hunchback dropping into wide open maps. It gets torn apart trying to get close enough to be effective. If I knew where I was going, I'd switch out the loadout for some ranged weapons or just take my erppc Raven. My Hunchie rocks in the cities.

It's not that I don't wish to create balanced builds, it's just that I want to be able to tailor mechs for different roles. If you were in the military, wouldn't you be given a mission briefing and proper equiptment for your role? Would they hand you a missle launcher and send you into a tunnel?

[Keifomofutu]

Agreed it is super weak. Not having a limited repawn mode will neuter any future objective based game modes. Any game mode with a single life per match will automatically default to the potential to only be a quick TDM. For a true game mode that is about the objective and not TDM limited respawn is almost a must.

[Sephlock]

*Sigh*.

Just to play Devil's advocate, I suppose that what we had in mind (and hoped for) could seriously complicate weight based matchmaking, and if there were no weight based matchmaking, it would lead to hilarious mismatches where 4 (or 6) noobs decided to take 3 spiders and a death's knell, whereas their opponents have all taken 4 assault mechs each .

Edited by Sephlock, 29 July 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[Fugu]

On the other hand, who cares? 8 man groups already don't balance tonnage and ELO most likely doesn't work at all.
Also, sod matchmaking to hell alltogether. Have a lobby and be able to stay in it after the match, like one even can do in CoD for crying out loud. Your team was good? Stay. Bad? Leave. It's so incredibly simple and exists in pretty much every game that has no dedicated servers, why not in MW:O?

[oldradagast]

This is a horrible idea.

The ONLY thing keeping alpha-snipers and other "situationally perfect" builds in check was that they may drop on a map that is ill-suited to that super-special build. Now, that won't happen. Alpine will be nothing but sniping and LRM's, hot maps will be nothing but Gauss with some extra ballistics, etc. Incredibly dull and repetitive. Very disappointing... Oh, but on the plus side, you'll have to create mechs of each weight class specifically tailored to each map style, which will sell more Mech Bays, so I guess that's all that matters.

This is a step away from the whole theme of Battletech - making use of what you have vs. having exactly what you want - and will make the meta-game even more stale.

[Amsro]

Dropship Mode = Lobby with Mech Select X 4

HAHAHAHAHAHA

AKA its not a new mode, is pgi trolling Ask the Dev questions?

[EyeOne]

Sephlock, on 29 July 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

*Sigh*.

Just to play Devil's advocate, I suppose that what we had in mind (and hoped for) could seriously complicate weight based matchmaking, and if there were no weight based matchmaking, it would lead to hilarious mismatches where 4 (or 6) noobs decided to take 3 spiders and a death's knell, whereas their opponents have all taken 4 assault mechs each .

I don't see why everyone complains about weight matching anyway. When I'm running Death's Knell my favorite thing to come up on is an Assault mech. I just don't see 4 lights vs 4 assaults as a mismatch. If those lights would play like lights instead of acting like they are heavies they could probably win.

So, let the original dropship mode "screw up" weight matching. That should be a reason for not implementing it.

And if this is true that that mode is gone then I'm pretty upset about it.

[Nunspa]

MourningZero, on 29 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Was I alone in thinking that the near future Dropship mode was going to be some kind of sweet game shaking change like:
Pick 4 mechs
Launch
Match start, select one of those 4 and be dropped onto the map via Dropship
Fight, die, return to mech select screen. Select from remaining 3, drop onto map via dropship (maybe be able to select different locations to drop in from based on game state)
Repeat until out of mechs

So when I read the following from Paul. I'm just kind of sad about the evolution of the idea.


This to me sounds like:
Pick 4 mechs from a weight class
Launch
Lobby screen shows up where you get to see the map and maybe talk to your soon-to-be team
Select one of your 4 mechs
Regular game with no other changes ensues

I like the pre-game lobby idea. I don't like that it devoured a planned feature that I was really excited about.

Did I get it wrong? Has dropship mode always been the pre-game lobby idea and I just read too much between the lines?

Color me a sad panda...

this sucks.. like totally

[Plonky]

oldradagast, on 30 July 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Alpine will be nothing but sniping and LRM's, hot maps will be nothing but Gauss with some extra ballistics, etc. Incredibly dull and repetitive.

Shouldn't alpine be a place for long range mechs to shine? I mean it's not only other people who can build a long range mech - you can too. I think it'd make the game less repetitive, because each map will bring a different selection of mechs, tailored to that map. As it is now, each match has a hodge podge of different mechs who's loadouts may or may not be appropriate for the map.

EyeOne, on 30 July 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

I don't see why everyone complains about weight matching anyway. When I'm running Death's Knell my favorite thing to come up on is an Assault mech. I just don't see 4 lights vs 4 assaults as a mismatch. If those lights would play like lights instead of acting like they are heavies they could probably win.

I don't think the complaint is so much that the teams are unfairly balanced, but rather the distribution of weight classes is unbalanced. There is a perception that because there are so many heavy mechs in the game, and because a lot of games are decided purely on combat, that mechs that fare less well in direct combat are punished (normally mediums). Having a team weight limit would even out the number of mech types in each game a bit. I'm not sure this would actually solve any problems, but the perception is that it will.

[Sam Slade]

Reads to me as buy more mech bays, buy more mechs, buy more paint or no map selection for you... **** off