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Legitamate And Simple Solution To Weapons Systems For Mwo


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#1 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:02 AM

INTRO:First off I appologize for the wall-o-text and you can skip to the idea's part if you want. I think the reading is worth it though.

This is something I talked about in another thread that I figured I would put here to address the weapons systems in MWO and how badly things have been handled from the get go. I can only reason that PGI didn't have a clear cut solution or direction to a problem that has plagued MWO/Mechwarrior since it's very beginning and that's the exploitation of weapons systems. There really isn't a way to convert the TT rules over to a game or sim, but there is a way to keep things in check. So I suggest that PGI go back to the drawing board and take a look at the idea I've come up with to solve things like a 4 HEAP-AGL Annihilator, AC40 Catapults, 6 PPC Stalkers, etc.

START OF IDEA: All the weapons issues could have been fixed very simply by classifying weapons as primary and secondary. Primary group would be your Gauss, AC/20, AC/10, PPC's, ERLL, LL, LPL and LRM's. The high Damage and long range weapons. Then set the Chassis up to only handle a certain number of Primary and Secondary weapons. Not a lot of mechs would be able to mount multiple primary weapons and we could eliminate the AC40 and 6 PPC builds all together. Also by design the Devs could control things much more closely then blanket or baind-aid fixes. They wouldn't have had to create a new firing system for the Gauss that is totally an overly complicated and dumb idea to control things.

Mechs like the Awesome which pack multiple PPC's by design would get those weapons at no penalty. Awesome with 3 PPC's/ 3 ERPPC's/ 3ERLL/ 3LL/ 3LPL would be acceptable because the chassis was designed for it. A Catapult K-2 with AC40 would not, it would have to have 2 main weapons in the beam ports on the shoulders, not in the torso. Now I'm not going to create examples for every chassis in the game and every variant but you should get the gist of what I'm saying. Instead of going down the road PGI has chosen to control exploiting weapons in the game and over complicating things they could have set up a system like I've suggested that is simple, easily controlled on a per chassis basis, and creates an understanding with the community that is much easier then trying to understand the crazy, stupidly complicated ideas PGI has come up with. END OF IDEA

COMETARY: One of the things I was disappointed with MWO in the very beginning in closed beta the first minute I dropped was the system they had in place for what could go where on your mech that limited how I could boat things (Reference my 4 HEAP-AGL Annhilator) but I understood the reasoning for it and agreed with it, however they had a great building block right there to limit exploitation of weapons in MWO. Instead of expanding on that they've thrown more bandaids on and it's killing the game. I suggest it's not too late to change their system and take the restrictions on weapons they already have in locations on chassis and expand it to have primary and seconday weapon tiers that limit the amount of primary weapons that can be mounted. If PGI is going to save this game then I think they need to scrap the overly complicated weapons system they have and start with my more simple idea which they were the inspiration for in the first place. I think for the long term viability of this game and for the benefit of game play this is the best coarse of action for PGI and I would hope that even the boating crowd understands that this could be the single easiest fix to making game play the best it can be in the simplest manner.

Thank you for taking the time to read and vote!

Edited by Werewolf486, 08 September 2013 - 10:35 AM.


#2 BATTLECRUISER OPERATIONAL

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

cbf reading all that but yea... more weapons, more to think about, more to do! I cant wait to see what they come out with. I expect at least 3 new weapons for each class.

#3 Phantom411 ScorpS

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:32 AM

Sounds like a good idea to me. If you've read any of the battletech books a lot of the mechs are configured with priamry and secondary weapons. Make it happen PGI, I'm sick of watching this game I've given too much money to continuing to melt around me! I see fewer and fwer pilots I know on line due to your refusal to listen to those of us who are dedicated to this game. Stop with the soccialist type mentatlity that the noobs should be brought in and given the same ability as those of us who have been in here forever! They'll learn and gain experience as they continue to play! Stop penalizing the rest of us! What business refuses to listen to its customers and stays in business? If I didn't know better I'd swear you're purposely destroying this game. LIsten to those of us who play...PLEASE!

#4 Firewuff

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:03 PM

Hunchback 4P ... so 8 Med lasers is ok with no heat penalty?

#5 LordRush

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:38 PM

Not a bad idea actually...it would eliminate cheese builds for sure

#6 Wolfways

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:49 PM

Isn't that just the same as having hardpoint sizes? (To which PGI said no)

View PostFirewuff, on 08 September 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Hunchback 4P ... so 8 Med lasers is ok with no heat penalty?

The current heat penalty only applies to 7+ ML's anyway.

#7 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

View PostWolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Isn't that just the same as having hardpoint sizes? (To which PGI said no)


The current heat penalty only applies to 7+ ML's anyway.


I think it would be a better solution then the current system so yes.

#8 Monoc

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

Weapon Classes (based on size and type) would be a very good idea.
Now I am not saying eliminate all customization, just limit it.
Remember, the Inner Sphere mechs were hard to customize, so it took a lot of time and very costly to do so. The clans had the advantage of omni points for adaptability, the Inner Sphere had to make do with the variants they were currently producing.

This could lead to the elimination of ghost heat, the new Gauss rifle mechanic, cut down on boating and other "power" builds.

#9 Wolfways

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostWerewolf486, on 08 September 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:


I think it would be a better solution then the current system so yes.

I agree that it's better than what we currently have. I'm just saying having primary and secondary weapon types is the same as having hardpoint sizes, and PGI have already said they won't put hardpoint sizes in so they won't put this idea in either.
We were asking about hardpoint sizes in closed beta.

Edited by Wolfways, 08 September 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#10 Monoc

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:21 AM

View PostWolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

PGI have already said they won't put hardpoint sizes in so they won't put this idea in either.


They also said they wouldn't put in 3rd Person View either. So maybe they'll change their mind for the better this time.

#11 LordRush

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostTungsten Phoenix, on 09 September 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:


They also said they wouldn't put in 3rd Person View either. So maybe they'll change their mind for the better this time.

Could be...however I can only assume that the re written code in order to do so for that would be over the top

#12 Wolfways

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:45 AM

View PostTungsten Phoenix, on 09 September 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:


They also said they wouldn't put in 3rd Person View either. So maybe they'll change their mind for the better this time.

I wish i still had that amount of faith in PGI :P

#13 Monoc

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:12 AM

Couldn't restricting the hard point size be done the same way as restricting engine sizes are done now?

View PostWerewolf486, on 08 September 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

START OF IDEA: All the weapons issues could have been fixed very simply by classifying weapons as primary and secondary. Primary group would be your Gauss, AC/20, AC/10, PPC's, ERLL, LL, LPL and LRM's. The high Damage and long range weapons. Then set the Chassis up to only handle a certain number of Primary and Secondary weapons. Not a lot of mechs would be able to mount multiple primary weapons and we could eliminate the AC40 and 6 PPC builds all together. Also by design the Devs could control things much more closely then blanket or baind-aid fixes. They wouldn't have had to create a new firing system for the Gauss that is totally an overly complicated and dumb idea to control things.


Something along these lines?
For example:

Class 1 Weapons:
Ballistic: Gauss Rifle, AC 20, AC 10, LBX 10
Energy: ER PPC, PPC, ER Large Laser, Large Laser, Large Pulse Laser
Missile: LRM 20, LRM 15, SRM 6

Class 2 Weapons:
Ballistic: UAC 5, AC 5, AC 2, Machine Gun
Energy: Medium Laser, Medium Pulse Laser, Small Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Flamer
Missile: LRM 10, LRM 5, SRM 4, SRM 2, SSRM 2

Using the Atlas AS7-D as an example:

RA: 1 Class 2 Energy HP
RT: 1 Class 1 Ballistic HP + 1 Class 2 Ballistic HP
CT: 2 Class 2 Energy HP
LT: 1 Class 1 Missile HP + 1 Class 2 Missile HP
LA: 1 Class 2 Energy HP

Edited by Tungsten Phoenix, 09 September 2013 - 09:14 AM.


#14 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostLordRush, on 09 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Could be...however I can only assume that the re written code in order to do so for that would be over the top


It is some coding, but with all development projects of this nature they have archived version prior to the band-aid fixes and could start there. It would be a matter of designating the weapons to be listed as such in the code and then designating the on the chassis what can fit where. Seriously not as complicated as what they've already done.

View PostTungsten Phoenix, on 09 September 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Couldn't restricting the hard point size be done the same way as restricting engine sizes are done now?



Something along these lines?
For example:

Class 1 Weapons:
Ballistic: Gauss Rifle, AC 20, AC 10, LBX 10
Energy: ER PPC, PPC, ER Large Laser, Large Laser, Large Pulse Laser
Missile: LRM 20, LRM 15, SRM 6

Class 2 Weapons:
Ballistic: UAC 5, AC 5, AC 2, Machine Gun
Energy: Medium Laser, Medium Pulse Laser, Small Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Flamer
Missile: LRM 10, LRM 5, SRM 4, SRM 2, SSRM 2

Using the Atlas AS7-D as an example:

RA: 1 Class 2 Energy HP
RT: 1 Class 1 Ballistic HP + 1 Class 2 Ballistic HP
CT: 2 Class 2 Energy HP
LT: 1 Class 1 Missile HP + 1 Class 2 Missile HP
LA: 1 Class 2 Energy HP


Kind of, yes, now your getting it. It's much more simple and straight forward then what PGI has done to date and would bring Chassis on to the field that you rarely see (Awesome) and would prevent certain weapons in the future from being so easily exploited. When the introduce things like Rac5 it would likely be in Class 1 as you put it do to it's potential DPS, then imagine how things will be without this system when the Uac20 comes out! Good lord it'll be maddening!

#15 MangoBogadog

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:39 PM

I also wish they had a system like this, whether it is too late or not I don't know but certainly some sort of hard point sizes either 2 or 3 tier would have been some much simpler. Something I liked about MW4

#16 Karl Split

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:35 PM

Could be a solution, can't say I liked MW4 at all mango and their solution worked but I wasnt a fan tbh

#17 UnwantedProblem

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

I like the idea, is not the same as sized hardpoints, as you can't drop 2 tier 2 in a tier 1 slot for example. (In MW4, in the same space that a ppc could fit, 3 Mlas could fit, but with the hardpoint system, if 1 ppc can fit, only 1 Mlas can fit, but, if you combine both systems, where you can get only 1 Mlas, you can't get a PPC there, because the PPC is bigger than the Mlas, but if you can fit a PPC, so will be able to fit a Mlas, for example).

I think that 3 tiers would be good.

Think about lights, for example, 2 tiers won't fix the 6Mlas jenner F cheese build, but if you fit Mlas to tier 2 and Slas to tier 3, and say Jenner F can get 4 tier 2 and 2 tier 3, that would fix it.

I think it's a good idea, the limited number of weapons of any type combined with the sized hardpoints (hybrid between the actual weapon system and the MW4 weapon system)

#18 Shifty Eyes

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:32 PM

They could put a tonnage or crit space limit on hardpoints instead of assigning every weapon to a tier. Seems like it would be a simpler solution.

I think I've made this suggestion once before; they could penalize a weapon's heat or fire rate when placed in a hardpoint not designed for it. For example, a PPC coming out of a hardpoint designed for a mlas would generate a lot more heat.

I feel that none of these solutions will satisfy everybody, much less to the point of getting PGI to implement something. I just dislike the fact that it's perfectly OK for an AC/20 round to fly out of a tiny gun that was originally an MG. At least on some of the newer chassis the weapon model changes.

#19 Zinitiate

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:41 AM

View PostShifty Eyes, on 10 September 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

they could penalize a weapon's heat or fire rate when placed in a hardpoint not designed for it.


This is the best idea I've heard all year. The simplest solutions are always the best.

Edited by Zinitiate, 15 September 2013 - 02:41 AM.


#20 Shibas

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:27 AM

So, it's hard points sizes under a different name? And pretty much what you have done is severely limited customization on an already restricted system. So for an atlas-d my only option is small or medium laser for the arms? Wow, look at variety. You'll have more options for the color grey on a mech than weapons.

Edited by Shibas, 15 September 2013 - 03:28 AM.






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