20 replies to this topic

[FerretGR]

...and I have to give you guys props, PGI, you're obviously doing something right! Let me tell you what it is: the use of the Champion Centy as one of the trial mechs.

The problem with Trial mechs, IMHO, is that they're necessarily stock mechs, and the stock mechs, well, they all pretty much suck. No DHS, no tweaking of weapon systems, no maxed armor, no endo/ferro, and so on. The champions, though, are the product of the community, someone's tweaked ride instead of a stock ride. The things are powerful, heat efficient, and easy to hop into and kill stuff with.

My buddy is a pretty good gamer so he caught onto the controls quickly. By the time I got online he had gone through the tutorial and was ready to jump into a match, so I recommended the Cent for him. He managed get a kill in his third match, and maybe 10 matches in, had a three kill match! He told me he felt like a god

He tried out the other three trial mechs and felt severely gimped. The Raven 3L stock is slow as cold molasses and is pretty gimpy in the weapons department. The Quickdraw, a heavy, had less armor and less punch than the Cent. The Stalker felt like piloting a train through thick mud compared to the Cent. I'd agree with him on all counts... neither of those mechs, in stock configuration, can touch the Cent Champion.

My suggestion is this: use champion mechs for ALL trials. Most new players are not going to have a tutor in voicechat with them to recommend the correct mech and to help them out. At the very least, giving them four viable choices will get them off to the right start.

And that said, I encourage experienced players to one-on-one tutor newbies when they first get into the game. I was ready to answer any questions my buddy had and to get him set up right in terms of settings, weapon groups, and so on; giving him the basics as he needed them. It's a shame that in-game VOIP isn't set up because if it was I'd push for a "tutorial room" where new players could go to get paired up with helpful, experienced players. Most new players don't come into the game with a built-in tutor, I'd be willing to bet, and I think it's a huge boost for the new guy.

Edited by FerretGR, 17 September 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Training Instructor]

Yeah, they have a champion Jenner, Centurion, Dragon, and Atlas. One for each weight class, and more should be added to the rotation just for the sake of variety.

Get rid of the stock mechs for trial mechs. In fact, just get rid of them period. Add in some feature where you suggest configurations for a player, just to give them a guideline of how to best use the hardpoints each different variant has, and then let them toy around in the mechlab without purchasing anything. Let them do a testing grounds or real match with the mech they've put together, so they can see how it works for them. All before you make them purchase the mech/parts!

[DaZur]

Agreed on all points.

Side-effect: While not as unique / optimized as a personal mech, champions give a new player a "taste" of what potential is available to them given vesting some time or money into MW:O...

Hell of a lot better than the vile "taste" they are resigned to in a trial.

[Solkar]

Having 1 champ mech and 3 stock mechs at all times is better than 4 champs...

New players need to see how much the upgrades matter, so they feel like there is a reason the first mech they buy feels gimp.

If they pilot 4 champs and then buy their first mech and it sucks, that will give them a bad impression.

[Caswallon]

So the thing would be surely to allow someone to swap out the equipment on a trial mech after one game as stock loadout...

Instant money sink PGI as they only get to use them for 2 weeks...

No I kid Trail Mechs are universally horrid and only serve to put players OFF the game... If not an all champ trial line up at least allow trials to have some mods done to them by the player at a considerable discount as they are temporary? Would that work or more reasonably when the Trail mech gets cycled out of the line up all cash invested in one gets returned to the player...?

[FerretGR]

Solkar, on 17 September 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

If they pilot 4 champs and then buy their first mech and it sucks, that will give them a bad impression.

A worse impression than knowing nothing about the game and hopping into the trial Stalker for ride number one?

[Training Instructor]

Solkar, on 17 September 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Having 1 champ mech and 3 stock mechs at all times is better than 4 champs...

New players need to see how much the upgrades matter, so they feel like there is a reason the first mech they buy feels gimp.

If they pilot 4 champs and then buy their first mech and it sucks, that will give them a bad impression.

When I said get rid of stock mechs, I didn't just mean for the trial period, I meant for all aspects of the game. Given how few stock variants are in any way usable, there's just no point in keeping them. Sell empty chassis with suggested configurations for different prices, depending on weapon/engine/upgrade costs. That way a newer player doesn't save up just enough money to buy that shiny Jager, only to realize that he actually needs another four or five million spacebucks to get the XL/DHS/ES and weapons he really wants.

Edited by Training Instructor, 17 September 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[Cerlin]

I also just introduced two friends to the game and having the champion centurion into rotation was pretty amazing. I think there NEEDS to be at least one champion in all rotations to keep people into it. After seeing it, I understand why champion mechs are in the game. I like stock mechs, so I say give one "amazing" variant and 3 regular ones. I had a friend use the raven for his noob bonuses and he didnt even notice.

[N a p e s]

The biggest problems with the trial mechs that I remember was due to heat being very difficult to manage. Having limited speed and maneuverability are one thing but when you can't even fire without waiting that kills the fun. Since most of these stock mechs run single heat sinks wouldn't it be wise to take a look at the heat system to make these at least somewhat viable.

The whole argument about reducing heat capacity and increasing dissipation has been done to death but this just feels like one more argument to support it. Stock mechs work in the lore, why shouldn't they work in game.

[Jam the Bam]

They need to do something about it I agree, but they can't really add all the champions in but keep the stock mechs as the ones bought. It would create a horrible dip in game play when someone buys their first mech.

To be honest, easily the best option has to be simply selling empty mech chassis as someone above mentioned.

Another option if people want to keep the stock mechs simply for BT's sake, where the mechs work as intended originally, would have to be splitting the new players into a separate queue where they only play against stock mechs. Or even create it as a new game mode, a 'historical mode'. Then people who really want to play a slower game can play stock mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

since they are unlikely to ever admit they screwed up any chance of viability for stock builds with their Heat System, sadly I must concede to the necessity of Trial Mechs.


Glad your buddy had a good first experience, nice counter point to the toxic negativity in the forums here.

Gotta say though, I still find the "Zombie" Cent the most laughable myth to continue to pervade this community. Not that it ain't tough, but that somehow it's more viable or usable than actually using that big old ac arm to cause some damage before it becomes a stick. Aim leg or LT, and the Zombie is either dead, gimped or menacing the community at low speeds with it's vicious 2 medium lasers.

[DaZur]

IMHO...

Next logical solution would to provide stock / trial mechs with locked engines... everything else is upgrade-able until that chassis is destroyed.

I.e... Let me customize a trial right up the the default engine at zero cost... lets me use that same configuration until such time I die / am destroyed.

Allows new players access to the fun of the mechlab, identifies investing in the game through trial / experience and allows enough temporary customization to indoctrinate new players.

Not to mention that fact that holding that temporary configuration for more than one mission acts as a catalyst to encourage a new player to play, play well and contribute to a team win.

[Kasiagora]

I am impressed that this post came out this morning and the new patch from this afternoon apparently has all champion mechs for trials. (According to patch notes. I haven't updated yet.)

I would be up for doing a training mode with new players, and I agree with the VOIP, however I'd like to start out as just being able to be a spectator in the trainee's cockpit. I've trained a number of my friends in MW:O and wondered what they're having trouble with and why they're doing poorly until I die before them in a match and then it's like a brick wall. "OOOHH!!!" You need to unlock your arms from your torso, you need to set up your weapons groups, that target is still out of effective range; conserve your ammo. Pay attention to your buddies and always keep an eye on the map and another on the chat in case someone needs help.

Things like that you can't really tell is going on until you're looking through their eyes. THEN I'd go into a group with them and play together to teach the basics of tactics and team work and after a bit of that then turn them loose.

[Kissamies]

Personally, I preferred stocks when I started out. Especially the main builds from the old technical readouts. Being "real" Battletech was more important than being effective for me. Of course I then figured out the what really works in this game, but that just motivated me to buy my own mechs and start customising them. I'm a little sad that those iconic stocks are not more effective, though.

That being said, the old BT fans that are going to play this game have mostly already probably found it and are not that big a factor among the newbies anymore. Better to cater to other kinds of people.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Kissamies, on 17 September 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Personally, I preferred stocks when I started out. Especially the main builds from the old technical readouts. Being "real" Battletech was more important than being effective for me. Of course I then figured out the what really works in this game, but that just motivated me to buy my own mechs and start customising them. I'm a little sad that those iconic stocks are not more effective, though.

That being said, the old BT fans that are going to play this game have mostly already probably found it and are not that big a factor among the newbies anymore. Better to cater to other kinds of people.

There could always be a stock mech game mode added to the game, but that depends if PGI wants to have their players split up the community for that.

[Kasiagora]

I would love to have a game mode option for Stock Mechs Only, but then, I'd also love to have 1v1s with no prior knowledge of what the other person is piloting. It would make more of a reason to build away from the specialized mechs we have now. More mechs like the Shadow Hawk or Orion that are made to fight at all ranges.

I figure other games have different game modes for Arcade or Hardcore/Realism. We could have the current game modes or Standard Variants.

Of course, tell PGI that and they'll just say "UI 2.0!" for another year without us ever seeing hide nor hair of it.

[Asmosis]

I'm glad they went with the all champion lineup this patch

Hans Von Lohman, on 17 September 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

There could always be a stock mech game mode added to the game, but that depends if PGI wants to have their players split up the community for that.

Having stock tornaments sounds like a lot of fun in theory, but there are some stock builds that are head and shoulders above the rest. It's an idea i'd love to see work though.

[Escef]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Aim leg or LT, and the Zombie is either dead, gimped or menacing the community at low speeds with it's vicious 2 medium lasers.

I have both killed and been killed by the 2 MLs. It's not much, but you are still a credible threat late game when everyone's internals are hanging out.

That said, the Dragon and Atlas Champions illustrate one of the biggest flaws of the current Gauss Rifle mechanic: it's unintuitive. I've seen new players with full ammo bins mucking about in the team's backfield trying to get it to work while the rest of us are getting killed.

[Jin Ma]

they need to buff SHS since basically all stock mechs use them. and no custom builds use them. close the gap. We need a reason/a choice to pick SHS over DHS since there arn't any right now

[MaddMaxx]

Jin Ma, on 18 September 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

they need to buff SHS since basically all stock mechs use them. and no custom builds use them. close the gap. We need a reason/a choice to pick SHS over DHS since there arn't any right now

You have any Numbers that would fly? Teh current SHS is 1.0, everywhere. The current DHS is 2.0 Engine, 1.4 outside.

What number would those SHS get to make them "close the gap" without making them the new "fakedubs"?

1.1? (nah, weak-sauce), 1.2? (nah, still weak-sauce) 1.3? (pretty close to DHS outside numbers... and we can 't use 1.4 right?

So where do we go with these "enhanced" SHS's"?