54 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

http://www.nogutsnog...pic,1021.0.html

Interesting stuff again. At the 12:30 minutes mark he starts speaking about why they launched this week. Not done listening to it, but I'd suggest listening to all of it.

Ugh, I never really listened to NGNGs podcasts before, but yeah, I understand the ***-licking accusations. There is at least 1 guy in there that brings interesting points

Edit: Ohhh something interesting at 27 minutes: Russ says DHS are too powerful, he would like to nerf them and.... THEY'RE TOO POWERFUL BECAUSE THEY ONLY COST C-BILLS

edit 2: Apparently he didn't mean they should cost MC, but something other than just C-bills. In that case, I retract my statement.

Line starts at 27:30... I think he realized his mistake the second he said this...

Noteworthy parts: everything between 27 and 38 minutes mark where we talk about DHS and balance.

Before that, mostly about launch and why the game launched.

Edited by Sybreed, 21 September 2013 - 04:02 AM.

[Sandpit]

You do know (and I just recently found this out myself) that ngng is paid by the rev team right? They state they are paying them to host their twitch stream but even still, it's hard to understand this one. After having their trust and integrity compromised due to a few of the recent events and decisions made it's easy to see why many call into question the objectivity of any interviews and such that come from ngng at this pont

[Varth Shenon]

Can you give me the first link?
Heard a bit of this 2nd, and I don't like some oh they said. So i want to know what they said on the 1st one, and decide should I put a hope on this game or not.

[Sybreed]

Varth Shenon, on 20 September 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Can you give me the first link?
Heard a bit of this 2nd, and I don't like some oh they said. So i want to know what they said on the 1st one, and decide should I put a hope on this game or not.

there's another thread on this sub-forum with the link

at 32 minutes: Russ says the game is balanced around DHS... so the game is fun for DHS users, less fun for SHS users... that's good to hear.

at 33 minutes: Someone makes a very interesting point about the lack of in-game economy and how it screws the game balance... (hint: R&R)

okay, there's definitely a hothead in that podcast that says things Russ isn't expecting ... but it's good stuff!

Edited by Sybreed, 20 September 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[That Guy]

so because NGNG is not as hateful or toxic as the general forums here you can only conclude that they are brown nosing, or some other colorful name? i dont like the show, so i dont listen unless there is one of these big events, but come on.

[Sandpit]

That Guy, on 20 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

so because NGNG is not as hateful or toxic as the general forums here you can only conclude that they are brown nosing, or some other colorful name? i dont like the show, so i dont listen unless there is one of these big events, but come on.

nope, not in the least. Maybe you should reread what I wrote? I am pretty sure I said I can understand why some would see things that way. Maybe you should actually pay closer attention to what someone says before you accuse them of calling them names

[Tezcatli]

Sandpit, on 20 September 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

nope, not in the least. Maybe you should reread what I wrote? I am pretty sure I said I can understand why some would see things that way. Maybe you should actually pay closer attention to what someone says before you accuse them of calling them names

You opened with "You know they're paid, right?" Anyone might assume you're being negative.

[Sandpit]

Which is why I suggested rereading it. I am merely putting the info out there for people to make their own opinion. I have my own but that's neither here nor there. The interview does a lot to reinforce my opinion that he could really care less about what most of the players on here think. I truly believe that he has decided to take this game into a completely new direction which is why my money has found new directions. Bottom line is, this is their product and they can do what they see fit with it, but it's my money and I can do what I see fit with that and as it stands right now it won't be going towards this game for various reasons. If and when they decide to make some fundamental changes, improvements, and add some much needed features I may change my opinion

[Riptor]

First of all:

DHs? They cost you more then just cbills Russ they cost space.

HOWEVER i do not think Russ meant that he wants to sell them for MC. You can say alot of the Dev team but i will not accept that anyone suggests that Russ wants to sell ingame items like DHs for real cash.

What he most likely meant is that equipping DHS has absolutely no downside besides paying for the upgrade with cbills once (and ofcourse buying the things) But they also use up way more critslots making them especially for the heavier mechs quite difficult to install AND use all or a good chunk of the hardpoints offered to you at that point.

Now are Double heat sinks to powerfull? No

Are they more powerfull then Single heatsinks? OFCOURSE

That was the whole point of double heatsinks, why even have "double" heatsinks wich are allready nerfed even in the game if youre going to nerf them even more.

And even then.. what are you going to nerf them to? Its basicly 0.4 more efficiency then normal heatsinks for THRICE the space.

Nerfing DHS wont do anything for balance anyways at this point and would be only another bandaid upon all the other bandaids that is instant pin point convergance.

Also why did you lower all the refire rates to a 2-3 seconds and then say that double heat sinks are to powerfull? If you want to lower the amount of incomming fire how about you increase the refire rate through the board for big guns? Make smaller weapons with higher refire rates more attractive while still giving the big guns this "gutpunch" feel? Right now an PPC fires almost as fast as a medium laser without having a beam duration/risk of exposing yourselfe to counterattacks that much.

Why are refire rates the only things that never get looked at? I do not want to overheat just by looking at my enemy funny all the times like say.. ALL THE STOCKMECHS THAT COME WITH SINGLE HEAT SINKS

Single heatsinks are GARBAGE because the heat system itselfe raises heat way to ******* quickly. Look how slow heat grew in MW2.. and look how slow it was falling down in MW2

THAT is a heat system with way more options because it takes longer to build up heat but also to lower heat. A slower heat system would also slow gamepace down a bit and would allow to build in debuffs based on your heat level. People would have to hide behind cover to cool down longer.

Right now the heatsystem is a rollercoaster speedwise and only exists to make sure that people dont use rapidfire when it could be a feature that could do so much more.

So in short... adjust your heat system to be more akin to the MW2heatscale.. and make bigger guns reload slower to give smaller weapons a chance to shine.

Edited by Riptor, 21 September 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[Ozric]

Rather than nerf double heatsinks, maybe we could buff singles?

[AlexEss]

Sybreed, on 20 September 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Edit: Ohhh something interesting at 27 minutes: Russ says DHS are too powerful, he would like to nerf them and.... THEY'RE TOO POWERFUL BECAUSE THEY ONLY COST C-BILLS

No he said they are so powerfull they should have put in other barriers them just CBills as they are pretty much a mandatory upgrade now.

[Riptor]

Ozric, on 21 September 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Rather than nerf double heatsinks, maybe we could buff singles?

To what?

Its allready just a 0.4 difference. Im not even sure that the heatsinks in the reactors are still 2.0

The difference is small enough as it is, and honestly thats the whole point of DHS... three times the size, more effeciency.

You cant nerf them or buff single heatsinks without making the whole point of DHS becomming redundand.

I mean do we really have to point out that double heatsinks in BT where doing exactly what they where introduced to do? Give more performance then their single slot cousins while at the same time taking up more critspace.. taking away space for other stuff and being easier to destroy?

How about making doubles easier to destroy once the armor comes off? Oh wait.. thats no good because once the armor is off it all but takes one or two shots to destroy the entire section.

As with all the "high" tech of battletech this was all done fluff wise with "economy" a the balancer. But having RnR in a game that will have 12 people loose horribly at the end of the match is impossible to balance. On the table you where allowed to retreat and cut your losses when you faced disaster... also you where completly in control of all your forces.

RnR made pugging finfancial suicide so RnR is not the solution. Oh and btw. We now make roughly the same amount of cbills that we did when RnR was still around. So even if you reintroduce RnR all it does is change the window dressing.

Edited by Riptor, 21 September 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

AlexEss, on 21 September 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

No he said they are so powerfull they should have put in other barriers them just CBills as they are pretty much a mandatory upgrade now.

They're a mandatory upgrade because players are allowed to play with semi omni mechs, and not actual IS mechs.
If mechs had tonnage caps on weaponry you'd see a lot of SHS loadouts simply because there'd be so much free tonnage and not enough space.

[Sybreed]

Riptor, on 21 September 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

To what?

Its allready just a 0.4 difference. Im not even sure that the heatsinks in the reactors are still 2.0

Yes, still 2.0 for engine heatsinks.

They should have used this system:

All engine HS: 1.5 dissipation
SHS: 1.0
DHS (outside engine): 2.0 dissipation

[AlexEss]

DeadlyNerd, on 21 September 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

They're a mandatory upgrade because players are allowed to play with semi omni mechs, and not actual IS mechs.
If mechs had tonnage caps on weaponry you'd see a lot of SHS loadouts simply because there'd be so much free tonnage and not enough space.

That may be, it is completely unrelated to what i was saying tho. I was just correcting the OP on what Russ said about DHS.

[StoneMason]

Maybe DHS could use a very slight nerf, maybe singles should get a slight buff, I think it'll really be worked out in the economics. Increase the cost of Endo greatly and slightly for Ferro, then decrease the cost of DHS to make them a bit less of a burden starting out.

I think adding repair costs will do wonders to reduce high-tier loadouts while leaving new players with simple Mech's relatively unaffected. If Endo, DHS and an XL is costing you in repairs you are much more likely to switch to a survivable mid-range Mech when trying to earn C-Bills.

[KhanCipher]

StoneMason, on 21 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I think adding repair costs will do wonders to reduce high-tier loadouts while leaving new players with simple Mech's relatively unaffected.

only if you don't complain about match quality dropping like a rock trying to float in water if R&R does come back...

[shintakie]

AlexEss, on 21 September 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

No he said they are so powerfull they should have put in other barriers them just CBills as they are pretty much a mandatory upgrade now.

Yay! Lets make it even harder to start enjoyin the game and keep people locked in their newbie death traps.

That'll help.

[Riptor]

StoneMason, on 21 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Maybe DHS could use a very slight nerf, maybe singles should get a slight buff, I think it'll really be worked out in the economics. Increase the cost of Endo greatly and slightly for Ferro, then decrease the cost of DHS to make them a bit less of a burden starting out.

I think adding repair costs will do wonders to reduce high-tier loadouts while leaving new players with simple Mech's relatively unaffected. If Endo, DHS and an XL is costing you in repairs you are much more likely to switch to a survivable mid-range Mech when trying to earn C-Bills.

It wont.. we had RnR before and it was atrocious and did not do anything against high tier loadouts, people simply gamed the system to get the required cbills.. like not reloading their LRMs... just take two tons more and let it auto refill to 75% Whats that? You want to make reloading mandatory? Who would take ballistics and missles then anymore?


Repair costs will just punish pug players when they are faced against teams.. furthermore it punishs new players. RnR will not come back as stated numerous times.

But hey.. then again.. it was their position at the time right?

Not only that but RnR will introduce all the ugly side effects again... suicide farming with Trial mechs, disconnecting if the odds are not in your favour, hiding and shutting down when your team is loosing.

Also the 12 man que would see horrible abuse to farm cbills again.

RnR adds more negatives then positives to the game. And making stuff more expensive or harder to maintain only punishes the players that are new to the game not the players that have allready hundrets of millions of cbills stashed to the side.

Also as long as there is no limit on the amount of items RnR makes no sense anyways, without a real economy RnR is just and artificial tax...

And no one likes paying taxes.

Edited by Riptor, 21 September 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[DocBach]

I wonder what the battlefield would look like if they made advanced tech unlockable by GXP first? Like, Double Heat Sinks, XL engines, ER tech, gauss, Ultra, LBX, Endo Steel, etc all require a pilot tree unlock before you can use them.