31 replies to this topic

[Electron Junkie]

Been playing all morning and have only had one complete ROLFSTOMP! For the most part matches seem pretty fair.

How have your drops been?

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Some are fair, others not so much.

I believe we need a solo only queue... I just got out of a game where there were 5 atlas (four of them grouped in a premade) and 5 spiders (3 of them grouped in a premade)

weight balance aside... we won... it's still total BS to think it's okay one team having 5 spiders and 5 atlai.

A well informed team vs. people who just want to stomp kill win and hardly communicate is not fair in the slightest.

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 02 October 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Curccu]

Electron Junkie, on 02 October 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Been playing all morning and have only had one complete ROLFSTOMP! For the most part matches seem pretty fair.

How have your drops been?

½ of my drops have been more and less roflstomps

[Corvus Antaka]

seems way worse to me since tuesday. tonnages way out of wack, roll after roll one way or the other.

[Curccu]

about every game is similar to this pic... numbers should be about right.

[Matthew Craig]

Tightening both Elo and Weight was proving too much for wait times, so for now Elo was preferred. This is resulting in closer matching of skill based players but tonnage matching admittedly isn't great right now. For now at least new players aren't mixing with lethal trained killers

We agree tonnage isn't great, and pre-mades are harder to match, there are significant changes coming for CW related to match making so for now it's likely to remain similar to this. I'll try and do a command chair on the upcoming MM changes at some point but please be patient, other things vying for time as well (which I'll try and discuss also).

[Kin3ticX]

Tonnage limits would prevent 4-mans from bringing 4 100 ton mechs...

[GreyZ7]

Kin3ticX, on 02 October 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Tonnage limits would prevent 4-mans from bringing 4 100 ton mechs...

That would make alotta sad Steiners hehe

[John MatriX82]

Matthew Craig, on 02 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Tightening both Elo and Weight was proving too much for wait times, so for now Elo was preferred. This is resulting in closer matching of skill based players but tonnage matching admittedly isn't great right now. For now at least new players aren't mixing with lethal trained killers

We agree tonnage isn't great, and pre-mades are harder to match, there are significant changes coming for CW related to match making so for now it's likely to remain similar to this. I'll try and do a command chair on the upcoming MM changes at some point but please be patient, other things vying for time as well (which I'll try and discuss also).

What about those players that pass 15-20 minutes in the "searching" screen along with the cbill nerf? Atm I've been able to pull off 3 matches within not much less than an hour.. :/

[Mr Andersson]

A little over half my matches are stomps (losing team scoring 0-2 kills), and the rest are everything from barely OK to great fun.

[Advil]

Played a lot of matches yesterday and the day before. A couple of games were no deaths. A whole bunch were roflstomps with 1-2 deaths.

Can't say it wasn't fun one way or another, but there didn't seem to be any kind of special balancing going on. If you guys wouldn't have mentioned it, I would never have known there was supposed to be.

[MuonNeutrino]

I've been collecting screenshots of especially egregious tonnage mismatches. They're not especially fun experiences.

Matthew Craig, on 02 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Tightening both Elo and Weight was proving too much for wait times, so for now Elo was preferred. This is resulting in closer matching of skill based players but tonnage matching admittedly isn't great right now. For now at least new players aren't mixing with lethal trained killers

Honestly, I wish you guys had gone the other way. I almost don't even *care* who I fight, I just want to stop seeing 8 bloody assault mechs on the other team every match, especially when I'm trying to have fun in something as unoptimal as (*gasp*) a medium. Right at the moment, just going on memory, I'd say that perhaps a third of my games are stomps one way or the other. An awful lot of them are fun, but there's a lot that aren't, too, and I can pretty clearly feel an inverse correlation between the fun quotient and the assault mech count.

Of course, the proposed limitations on tonnage in groups would *really* help, too. I can't wait to see just how good some of the arrogant jerkwads I've run into really are once you take away their precious highlanders.

[Matthew Craig]

It's not that weight balancing isn't happening it is, actually over 50% of games on any given day are matched within 50 tonnes, but when your talking about 10s of thousands of games on any given day your also going to get a lot that look like what you've posted.

As mentioned earlier there are plans in the works to address this when lobbies are introduced with CW.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

This is neither a rare or acceptable issue, and here is why:

Weight differences cause excessive pressure the smaller your mech is, regardless of team composition. Even if the match is par to par in Elo, the fact that 6+ assaults are in 4/5 games is what is wrong, not skill matching.

By only exposing players to other players within their elo bracket, you are depriving them of first hand experience needed to learn to play the mech they choose. If a new atlas player run into an older atlas player and gets stomped, the only thing keeping them from learning from it is their own personal hitchups.

HOWEVER. If a new player of anything is thrown into a mismatched game, they are forced to deal with extreme differences in tonnage, and will only learn how to become overwhelmed and frustrated. Obviously, you can in no way guarantee that players will knock into equally weighed battle in any given match, but by choosing Elo over tonnage limits, you are guaranteeing that it is far more likely to happen.

Not only is this true, but it is also true that players abuse the unrestricted weight system by stacking assaults during both pugs and pre-mades. In both scenarios, having too much weight forces longer waits with far less enjoyable results for the players who choose to play non-assault or non-heavy mechs.

When the MM picks up a bunch of assaults, the only things that can even compare in the weight matching are other assaults and heavies. Regardless, Elo constantly places disproportionate weights into teams and justifies it because players have similar Elo ratings with ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF MECHS. Elo between different weight tiers has exactly nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with poor excuses for a system that in no way works or is fair.

So,
Elo: Extreme frustration with weight mismatching, suppression of new players due to quantity of tons on the field, much more dense, complicated and difficult to learn from experiences.

Set Tonnage (Per lance, not based on MM choices):
Players do not get overwhelmed by heavily mismatched weights, forcing them to engage more often with enemies their own size, in an environment in which ONLY SKILL determines victory, and victory is not left to a ro-sham-bo of massive tonnage gaps which remove any purpose to skill in many, many situations and even entire matches.

[senaiboy]

Wait, have they decided to remove individual ELO by weight class for each player?

[On1m]

I have to agree with most of the player posts here. Right now the ELO and weight matching are just sad. Seriously considering a break until it gets better.

[Weztside]

Meanwhile in MWO...pre-mades are learning to drop with heavier and heavier decks simply because the disparity in team tonnages is frequently so large. If we drop with 4 DDC's we're ready for being out weighed and can use brute force to push through any imbalance. The balanced deck's and mechs we play for fun are flying out the window. Either that or we just stop playing all together....The worst part is in situations where your team is out weighed the enemy team is just as good as you if not even better because of the system favoring ELO. This is kind of ironic. It's not all bad though. While I've had a lot of really embarrassing and Ego flattening matches the last 2 days I've had some of the most bitter and hard fought matches I've ever played in MWO. The levels of fun and frustration are equal in my book.

[Curccu]

kai hohiro, on 02 October 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

That would make alotta sad Steiners hehe

Sad Steiner is good Steiner? Right?

[Electron Junkie]

Well I must say that today has been a completely different monster as far as match making goes. Having constantly dropped against premades I can say that yesterday must have been a complete fluke. Yesterday was close match after close match usually coming down to 2 vs 2 in some pretty epic circles of death... Today my teams have been ROLFSTOMPed left and right with 3 matches being complete wipes of 12 to 0. These matches I can say that the other teams seemed nigh invulnerable, where lack if hit markers on my end against some the overseas teams make me really wonder about HSR. In onther match I manage to do 500+ dmg to the torso of an Atlas and can't even lop off an arm (it was the only mech I had a chance to shoot at) which seems highly suspect.

I will concure that the biggest PUG issue is that we have premades dropping as heavy as possible with as many ACs as possible. The problem is that as long as there is not a hard tonnage limit there is no way to balance the game, looks like it is time to force people to pick 3~4 mechs a light, medium, heavy and an assault and then random out who gets what role at the start of the match. Hell, bring back repair/rearm and making it expensive to run that huge slow walking target.

TLDR: MM borked as long as teams drop against PUGs... We need a hard tonnage limit.

[Serapth]

Electron Junkie, on 03 October 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

TLDR: MM borked as long as teams drop against PUGs... We need a hard tonnage limit.

Frankly its teams that are breaking things more than any other single factor. An optional PUG only queue wouldn't be screwed by 4xDDC premades dropping and much less newbies getting stomped.

But then, the majority have been calling for this since day one and instead the shoved 3PV down our throat, handicapping newbs even more... sigh.