68 replies to this topic

[Daekar]

Funny... when I saw LAMS in the title I thought the OP was asking for Clan Laser Anti Missile System rather than Land/Air Mechs. The first will come in time and will change LRM tactics a bit. The second is stupid and will not be done for a myriad of reasons.

[DirePhoenix]

My own use of LAMs in TT was restricted to my own alternate pocket universe, where I used them as SLEF (Star League Expeditionary Force) Marine forces, where they would:
1) escort Marine boarding parties onto enemy WarShips, where they can approach, grapple, and land on capital ships where they take out their weapons for the boarding party boats to land.
2) scout out landing zones for DropShips (and possibly do some ground clearing).

That was pretty much it. They are versatile, but far too fragile (and expensive) for main-line fighting. For scouting, they report on enemy positions and GTHO. They are great for covering large areas of the global map (BattleForce scale) fast but can't really hold their own against full mechs or fighters of the same tonnage.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 07 October 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[Deux]

I think lams were put I the TT game almost as an after thought, it played like they were not sure what to do with them, so they were placed as an ultra rare mech and never used in novels.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Deux, on 08 October 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think lams were put I the TT game almost as an after thought, it played like they were not sure what to do with them, so they were placed as an ultra rare mech and never used in novels.

Interesting comment that ignores history. LAMs were present in the first TRO released for BattleTech. They were there from the beginning and were present in the Crescent Hawks series of video games. LAMs were also in the novels Far Country and Sword of Sedition. They may be in more novels, but I haven't really looked into it.

[ShotgunWillie]

PropagandaWar, on 07 October 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I don't ever recall a single novel having the wasp and hawk transform.

There was a Phoenix Hawk LAM that transformed a few times in Far Country. The pilot of that mech made a big deal out of having the LAM version of a Phoenix Hawk and he spent a lot of time in Air mode. The pilot of that mech was also an unbearable toolbag, so make of that what you will...

[Sandpit]

LAMs were introduced because of the Macross designs being so popular. You have a few oddballs here and there that might bring one to a tourney but that's just to cause a rise more than anything else usually. They were poorly implemented and after the initial "wow" factor wore off they got discarded by most tabletop players for lots of reasons. Not to mention, the dev team can't even get collision detection right and you want air-to-air combat????

[Xanquil]

Once Aerospace fighters are added I so no reason not to. I'de love to see what MW:O can do with them art wise. The funny thing is most of the people that hate LAMs are clan players, quite appropriate considering that the clans hate them too.

[Lykaon]

James The Fox Dixon, on 08 October 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Interesting comment that ignores history. LAMs were present in the first TRO released for BattleTech. They were there from the beginning and were present in the Crescent Hawks series of video games. LAMs were also in the novels Far Country and Sword of Sedition. They may be in more novels, but I haven't really looked into it.

Far country is not exactaly a canon universe novel.

And LAM rules did have the feeling of being forced.

An aerospace fighter that ignored fuel use (1st ruleset) and generated no heat for jumping in airmech mode (1st through current ruleset) Just compare the LAM jump performance with say,a mech partial wing or advanced jumpjets? Way off in left field when compared so it looks forced.

As for using them in MWo,really? with maps as tiny as River City.We can already fire on the lower base from our spawn point in upper.Do we need a mech that can blitz to base in 4 seconds?Gain LOS on the enemy in 3 seconds for LRMs?

[James The Fox Dixon]

Lykaon, on 09 October 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Far country is not exactaly a canon universe novel.

And LAM rules did have the feeling of being forced.

An aerospace fighter that ignored fuel use (1st ruleset) and generated no heat for jumping in airmech mode (1st through current ruleset) Just compare the LAM jump performance with say,a mech partial wing or advanced jumpjets? Way off in left field when compared so it looks forced.

As for using them in MWo,really? with maps as tiny as River City.We can already fire on the lower base from our spawn point in upper.Do we need a mech that can blitz to base in 4 seconds?Gain LOS on the enemy in 3 seconds for LRMs?

Far Country is canon.

Quote

Because of the sentient aliens featured in Far Country, the novel's canonicity is sometimes questioned. However, it does meet the current criteria for Canon and BattleTech Line Developer Herbert A. Beas has confirmed its canonicity, with the caveat that the authors and developers deliberately ignore the Tetatae and shall not revisit them. The impact on the BattleTech universe is minor, given that the Tetatae only (theoretically) exist in a place that has no connections to the known universe whatsoever.

Link

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 09 October 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Lord Ikka]

I really don't care about the Macross/Transformers toy {Scrap}.

LAMs in-game would be a waste of the Devs time that they could use to make other Mechs that are useful. There are what, three LAMs in canon? Two are Lights and one is a Medium, and we have other Lights/Mediums that have more useful hardpoints and don't require a whole new movement design to implement. Besides, making LAMs is much harder than making quad Mechs, and they've already said no to quads due to the additional programing that would be required to make quad's walking animation- LAMs won't happen.

[Sandpit]

Far country is canon but isn't canon. In the technical sense it is canon but it has been stated that it sits outside of canon because they will never revisit the planet, species, etc. The alien species and planet were found accidentally and the coordinates were never relayed to anyone back within the inner sphere. So technically it still exists I suppose but the creators have stated it was a mistake in general and do not want alien species to be introduced into the continuity as it has always centered on humanity. This is a case where both sides are right and wrong really. It will never be allowed in continuity in any official venues but it does exist.

[Hexenhammer]

Comstar News, "Tonight at 11 we'll investigate why 75% of LAM pilots die out of bounds and the remaining 25% are shot on sight so they can't cap rush."

[Captain Stiffy]

but it would be so cool

[Joseph Mallan]

Deux, on 08 October 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think lams were put I the TT game almost as an after thought, it played like they were not sure what to do with them, so they were placed as an ultra rare mech and never used in novels.

Except for the one where Clan Jade Falcon was investing resources to try out LAMs. Where two LAMs defeated a Hellbringer and a Warhammer IIC. They did get destroyed in the fight also but 80(ish) tons of LAMs beat 145 tons of Mech

[Lord Ikka]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 October 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Except for the one where Clan Jade Falcon was investing resources to try out LAMs. Where two LAMs defeated a Hellbringer and a Warhammer IIC. They did get destroyed in the fight also but 80(ish) tons of LAMs beat 145 tons of Mech

You are right that they were used in the novels, and that Jade Falcon was attempting to evaluate their usefulness and whether or not to upgrade the tech, on Huntress I believe. But- the Falcons ruled them as not worth the resources/time to upgrade to Clantech afterwards. Even after the LAMs beat the other Mechs they were ruled as too resource-intensive for too little payoff.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 10 October 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Word of Blake did also an attemp -
But they had other ideas to:
Drone BattleMech
Gestalt
Omega
And of course the the great - i don't give a damn about your warships - equalizer the Kraken-T with a Peacemaker Warhead

[FinsT]

Captain Stiffy, on 04 October 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

We totally do though. The mechanic of being able to relocate yourself quickly on the battlefield would make some of these utterly massive maps actually playable. ...

It possibly would, yes. But it's not the only method of making those maps playable, - and i dare say, not the best.

MW4 had some quite large maps, and (at least in SP mode) it was very playable because it used much better way to make them playable: _content_. Interactive, destructable, various content. This imho is much better (as in its quality) solution. Some bits of pieces of it i described here .

[kosmos1214]

omg yes yes yes uyesc yes i thought i was the only guy who liked them

[Thunder Child]

Is it cruel and sadistic of me to want to see LAMs introduced, after we see R&R back? What's that, your LAM lost an Arm? 4 Million C-bills, thanks..... no, that's not for all the stuff IN the Arm. That's just for a new shoulder actuator.....

But seriously though, I don't think they'd add anything of value to the game. They'd get thrashed for a week, and then the QQ would start on the Forums about either a: How Terrible they were, and how they need a buff, or b: How OP they are, and that they need to be nerfed into the ground.... Probably both, at the same time.

Chances are, 95% of the player base would be back to their tricked out Heavies and Assaults by the end of the second week, with only the truly dedicated 5% still using them. 3% of the Player Base would turn using these things into a new form of art, systematically annihilating your average PuG group. Nerfing would commence about 3 months later, resulting in LAMs being completely irrelevant.

Edit: That said, I'd sell my left Kidney for an LAM Locust....

Edited by Thunder Child, 01 October 2014 - 01:09 AM.

[kosmos1214]

well i would be happy if all we got was mech and air mech mode with super JJs that had a fuel limet per match it would make them cool and not over powered after all if theres 1 thing this game proves its that you dont wana be floteing in the open in mid air with out a reason