389 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

okay time to stop chatting.. i'm not good at that.

PART 1 THOUGHT PROCESS

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 02 November 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

GalaxyBluestar, on 31 October 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

i'll try and answer this but i reckon i'm digging a hole here due to little quirk-details of history i'm ignorant of but here goes...

there is few reseen material that looks good, i don't want it, FD's reinterpretations are very good some desings are saved and just look good again. the Tbolt and SH are great, i'm only dissapointed the locust hasn't a lance of a head weapon but i guess there must be compromises.

however when dealing with iconic material ie; warhammer, rifleman and marauders how far should a compromise go? back to awful reseens or will redesigns do? that's what we're here to find out...

My point was that some of the ReSeen designs aren't actually that bad, if handled by a different artist. FD is an amazing artist. I'm not saying all of Chris Lewis' art is bad, but most of the mechs I think are horrible looking were published with his art. Looking at some of the ReSeen features, if done in FD's style would work a lot better. It's like, the ideas are there but the execution was horrible. Also I think it's funny that the ReSeen Rifleman looks like (a bad interpretation of} the Rifleman IIC art done by Victor Musical Industries that was withdrawn - probably licensed by FASA, but when FASA went down, so did the licensing deal and FanPro/Topps/CGL never picked them up again. But even more interesting is that there were three other (original) 'mech designs that were done by VMI where their art only appeared in the SNES MechWarrior game:



(the Japanese version has better box art)
Note the Griffin IIC on the front cover, and the Nexus, Raijin, and Grand Crusader appear on the back (I don't think this Ragnarok was ever made into a Battletech 'mech). Now we know the VMI Griffin IIC from the original TRO:3055 was pulled (also this version wasn't in the game), but VMI's versions of the Raijin, Nexus, and Grand Crusader (which were in the game) never showed up in a sourcebook. We instead got Duane Loose's (pretty close) interpretations of them in TRO:3058 and I'm not sure if they are considered "UnSeen".

[DirePhoenix]

GalaxyBluestar, on 01 November 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

It's funny, a Hetzer is sort of what I was shooting for too, possibly in a slightly different way

[Firenze]

MadFJohn, on 31 October 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

@ Firenze
i like where you are going just a slight suggestion on two parts one is the cockpit slide it back more for the canopy. If you read the Gray Death novels you will get a description of the Mads cockpit and with this design it dose not give the feel of what the book describes . i would go with something like a jets cockpit idea wheres it pushed further up the hull and not right in front this will also give cockpit to have a back hatch to get out like the book had . also it was a more armored canopy than a class canopy.

as i said i would just read the description from the books and try to match to it .

the arms looking good but from the descriptions it had a more forward thrust to the design

The cockpit is being more based on the current MWO mechs. Most of the mechs have a very foward oriented cockpit.
It will get armoured up, I just was getting the shapes correct x3

[MadFJohn]

aye true Firenze. My self i been going over just the descriptions in the books and not looking at the artwork. just like a artist a arthur can lead you down in different directions just from the description and this is where i got more of my feeling of the mechs. Part of why i mentioned the Cataphract and theres 3 more mechs that got there design base off the MAD not counting the Stone rino

[Durant Carlyle]

DirePhoenix, on 01 November 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

(the Japanese version has better box art)
Note the Griffin IIC on the front cover, and the Nexus, Raijin, and Grand Crusader appear on the back (I don't think this Ragnarok was ever made into a Battletech 'mech). Now we know the VMI Griffin IIC from the original TRO:3055 was pulled (also this version wasn't in the game), but VMI's versions of the Raijin, Nexus, and Grand Crusader (which were in the game) never showed up in a sourcebook. We instead got Duane Loose's (pretty close) interpretations of them in TRO:3058 and I'm not sure if they are considered "UnSeen".

The Raijin, Nexus, and Grand Crusader were in the ComStar sourcebook in a special shiny full-color section. I wouldn't mind having those in MW:O, redesigned by Alex of course. They were pretty good 'Mechs from the stats I remember.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 01 November 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

Durant Carlyle, on 01 November 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

The Raijin, Nexus, and Grand Crusader were in the ComStar sourcebook in a special shiny full-color section. I wouldn't mind having those in MW:O, redesigned by Alex of course. They were pretty good 'Mechs from the stats I remember.

Of course, they would be in one of the few sourcebooks I never got... /facepalm

[Gallowglas]

I love, love, love this idea! I may try my hand at it if I get some free time this weekend or next.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Prize amount update. It is being logged and publicly posted to avoid dishonesty.

There has been a donation of $25.00 USD (not sure the actual amount in CAD, paypal is keeping it in USD, paypal might use the exchange rate when it's withdrawn for prizes). Prizes updated accordingly. I will make up the difference to ensure that all donation money is used!

Thank you, LCRacerX!

Edit: Added name,

Edit: Received notification that this amount translates to $25.54 CAD, adding the pool up to $140.25CAD
Edit: Update second prize to $50 (up from $45) so that it fits into a package and uses the remaining 25 cents.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 09 November 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[vetal l]

MoonUnitBeta allowed me to post some images. So here it is.

First of all, I've already submitted design for contest. I've started modelling it October 22 and finished (well stopped in fact) October 28. It took about 4-5 hours each day (mostly after work and at night). After that i almost have no time. And tomorrow i'll leave city for a week.

All that time i also discuss and read the topic about Marauder and found out that my first design... well... first, You know like in russian saying about pancakes. So i simply cannot keep hands off modelling software. And i started another model. =)

This model obviously cannot be done in time, and besides I've already submit one. But i cannot keep this just for me alone.

The first step is to choose overall view/style of model. I prefer to think about Marauder like a shark. But the shark it too long to be effective design (even if we cut tail as one third). So i need to squash it. And put cabin somewhere near eyes.

This time I take same pilot with seat as DirePhoenix and wrap it in some sort of capsule.(Empty seat i've choose first time doesn't look as solid as with pilot).

Spoiler

Now apply some shark photos and look how can i place this capsule in shark shape. Squashed shark shape... sort of...

Spoiler

Now it is time to first impression. First draft. I've draw some guides for future design. I've tried to make it 12.6 meter high. And the arms should shield side torsos at least a little.

Spoiler

Looks messy right? =) I found out that roof should be more ascent. But this chin =\ meh...

Spoiler

Added a bit of torso and one of a weapon from submitted model. Is it a shark? definitely not. Pig - right?

Spoiler

Find a cover - more screenshots on the way!

Edited by vetal l, 01 November 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Zerberus]

MoonUnitBeta, on 24 October 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Crooks and they still have the right to vote? *grumble grumble grumble*

Actually, he`s now a convicted felon, and IIRC they can not vote

[vetal l]

Okay, screenshots part two.

I've scrap bottom side. And think that cockpit should be protected. We are riding heavy mech, aren't we? So thick plates on sides.

Spoiler

In my first model I've totally forgot about cheek mounting points. They never was mentioned in any descriptions i've read. When i've thought about torso mounting points i imagine only top ones. But then DirePhoenix (again!) posted one picture (http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2877006) and everythings changed. I've added cheek weapon pods capable of carrying not only energy weapons but also missile launchers up to SRM6. Head mounting point for TAG or something like. But still no bottom side.

Spoiler

Now it is time for bottom side of "head" and other torso.

Spoiler

Somewhere here i've stopped using shark images - they only mess the whole picture and design doesn't fit in it. Sooo now on my own...

Next save i have here contain almost finished left side torso. So - couple of pictures.

Spoiler

Today: finished bottom side. Added jumpjets (rear to thrust forward and bottom to jump, obviously). UAC/5 from first design placed at right top side. Added air intakes for engine heatsinks.

Spoiler

Just noticed that pointer to legs mounting point points on wrong part. In fact - legs will be mounted to rotating pelvis under even horizontal line.


And front view. (Don't look at the shoulder - no arm here - just draft).

Spoiler

to do - arms, legs, some texturing, placing in scene. after November 11 (i guess).

Edited by vetal l, 01 November 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[MadFJohn]

Vetal l decent concept . i found a missed spot on the funny Cataphract Catapult merger . the Cataphract waset at the hips is horizontal but the marauders is more set at 60 degrees if this helps this will give the MAD the crab like stans to hold the weight correctly.

[GalaxyBluestar]

vetal l, on 01 November 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

MoonUnitBeta allowed me to post some images. So here it is.

First of all, I've already submitted design for contest. I've started modelling it October 22 and finished (well stopped in fact) October 28. It took about 4-5 hours each day (mostly after work and at night). After that i almost have no time. And tomorrow i'll leave city for a week.

All that time i also discuss and read the topic about Marauder and found out that my first design... well... first, You know like in russian saying about pancakes. So i simply cannot keep hands off modelling software. And i started another model. =)

This model obviously cannot be done in time, and besides I've already submit one. But i cannot keep this just for me alone.

The first step is to choose overall view/style of model. I prefer to think about Marauder like a shark. But the shark it too long to be effective design (even if we cut tail as one third). So i need to squash it. And put cabin somewhere near eyes.

This time I take same pilot with seat as DirePhoenix and wrap it in some sort of capsule.(Empty seat i've choose first time doesn't look as solid as with pilot).

Spoiler

Now apply some shark photos and look how can i place this capsule in shark shape. Squashed shark shape... sort of...

Spoiler

Now it is time to first impression. First draft. I've draw some guides for future design. I've tried to make it 12.6 meter high. And the arms should shield side torsos at least a little.

Spoiler

Looks messy right? =) I found out that roof should be more ascent. But this chin =\ meh...

Spoiler

Added a bit of torso and one of a weapon from submitted model. Is it a shark? definitely not. Pig - right?

Spoiler

Find a cover - more screenshots on the way!

my god you took the fish shape seriously!



dun dun dun


JK GJ looking forward to discovering the stance of the machine.

MadFJohn, on 01 November 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Vetal l decent concept . i found a missed spot on the funny Cataphract Catapult merger . the Cataphract waset at the hips is horizontal but the marauders is more set at 60 degrees if this helps this will give the MAD the crab like stans to hold the weight correctly.

this is very true the poise and gesturing movements of the arms reminds me of a lobster.

DirePhoenix, on 01 November 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

It's funny, a Hetzer is sort of what I was shooting for too, possibly in a slightly different way

i was thinking stug 4 but same difference really anything to break up the swivel straw that's a TM of the design.



EDIT: the more i look at the overall torso of Vetal's design the more i want to see the completed one. i can't wait for nov 13.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 01 November 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[vetal l]

Okay. It's time for some mechanic. All of you know that mechs with arms have two numbers that represents how arms can move. I've checked this in game and found out that arms also moving in two degrees of freedom.

Look at this picture: (I'll correct post later, can't paste image correctly from phone)

Spoiler

https://db.tt/6fwUNLFf

Blue box connected to the shoulder, and yellow one to the weapon (I talk about marauder only). Circles represent degrees of freedom. In mwo we have only blue one and brown. But in mwo forearm (brown) connected to arm(red) beneath, not by side.

My first model have also 4 degrees of freedom. And most artists also draw their models unconsciously With 4 or more degrees. (Home work - count how many degrees we need to shoot ourselves in cockpit).

To point our weapon to the enemy we need only two Degrees of freedom. But on most mechs this would be blue and brown (brown plane should be different that on my image - in mwo brown are coplanar to my red one).

But when you design something new you can choose Almost any two of them. Blue and red or red and brown for example.

For now I mostly think to use blue and red one. That shrink arms almost to nothing, but forearms can be as thin as we wish and looks like unseen ones.

But red and brown would looks more articulated for most gamers probably.
Another homework - how many degrees of freedom we need for legs? and now - how many if we plan to make turns and not only walk strait.

Edited by vetal l, 02 November 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[vetal l]

And I need to mention that my engineering skills make me nervous when I try to imagine missile feeder from leg to arm in battlemaster for example.

Little update for those who still care...

Have a little time before i go, so i've tried to sketch an arm. It yaw at the shoulder and pitch in elbow (most or probably all mechs in MWO act opposite).
After checking arm angles (i guessed yaw 20 degree and pitch 30 degree for Marauder) i was forced to squeeze cheek weapon pods. They still can carry SRM/6 or up to two energy weapons.

In fact my idea to put shoulder at the upper part of torso to cover LT and RT by arms go flop.
Arms should move freely in two dimensions and it must be placed in some free area to do so. If we keep arms closer to torso - they will not move. Dragon is most notable mech 'cos it have relatively long torso - and look at its arms! It placed widely spread.

So in our case - if we want to keep arms closer to torso - we must place it beneath it. If we want to defend side torsos - we should spread arms. Its up to you. I have not choose yet.

Edited by vetal l, 02 November 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Malcolm Reynolds]

I like the stalker cockpit because it is small. so I hope people wont submit art with huge head hit boxes on the front. Cause the Cat is squishy as hell and can be cockpit ***** with little effort.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Kitsune Kaji, on 02 November 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Cause the Cat is squishy as hell and can be cockpit ***** with little effort.

Today I nearly got head shot by getting raked by large lasers from 800m+ away.

[Wootin87]

DirePhoenix, on 31 October 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I like this cockpit window because of/despite that it looks like MasterChief's helmet visor, but more cyclopic in nature.

I'm debating it now... B/c It might end up as another catapult hit-box fault. Might relocate. Might as well aye? less distraction to HG right?

Edited by Wootin87, 02 November 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[Wootin87]

vetal l, on 02 November 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

And I need to mention that my engineering skills make me nervous when I try to imagine missile feeder from leg to arm in battlemaster for example.

Little update for those who still care...

Have a little time before i go, so i've tried to sketch an arm. It yaw at the shoulder and pitch in elbow (most or probably all mechs in MWO act opposite).
After checking arm angles (i guessed yaw 20 degree and pitch 30 degree for Marauder) i was forced to squeeze cheek weapon pods. They still can carry SRM/6 or up to two energy weapons.

In fact my idea to put shoulder at the upper part of torso to cover LT and RT by arms go flop.
Arms should move freely in two dimensions and it must be placed in some free area to do so. If we keep arms closer to torso - they will not move. Dragon is most notable mech 'cos it have relatively long torso - and look at its arms! It placed widely spread.

So in our case - if we want to keep arms closer to torso - we must place it beneath it. If we want to defend side torsos - we should spread arms. Its up to you. I have not choose yet.

Looking good so far. You have the right idea in mind HG would be too busy picking their own a-holes to realize this hopefully. Good luck comrade.

Edited by Wootin87, 02 November 2013 - 09:43 PM.