55 replies to this topic

[Outlaw]

Honestly any mech can be good in the right hands, it really comes down to the play style you prefer and the weapons load out you are comfortable with. I currently own all but a few variants of the Heavy weight class, and i find all of them have their uses and all of them can be fun in their own way.

[Sug]

Mott, on 04 March 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

I think CW is going to go a long way to rebalancing this aspect of the game. Few units are going to be able to hold all the planets/facilities required to get good di$count$ on ALL the best weaponry. So the loadouts are going to start looking more stock... 3 and 4 weapon types with only one of them being able to deliver primary weapon damage levels.

I want what you're on.

[Xoxim SC]

I love my Flame, personally, but when the Clan mechs are released all of my IS mechs will either be sold or permanently retired. Orions are fantastic too, a good mix of weaponry, which is great if you want to actually be good at playing the game the way it's meant to be played, as opposed to using "cheese" builds.

[Buckminster]

Mott, on 04 March 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

I think CW is going to go a long way to rebalancing this aspect of the game. Few units are going to be able to hold all the planets/facilities required to get good di$count$ on ALL the best weaponry. So the loadouts are going to start looking more stock... 3 and 4 weapon types with only one of them being able to deliver primary weapon damage levels.

I'll be curious to see how they end up implementing CW. For something like this to work they'd need to bring back repair and rearm, and while that'd appeal to the hard core players it might scare off new and casual players.

At least I should say "as previously implemented" - the old R&R system severely punished certain builds. My Cat-C1 with Artemis was almost unplayable, I'd be lucky if I broke even with the cost of rearming that thing.

I think that'll really be the key to the success of CW - a system that doesn't punish casual players, but is rich enough for the hard core guys. I think the first start will be in making house loyalty mean something. If my house affiliation gave me bonuses for R&R of some systems but penalties for others, and if matches were set up so that they were single house + mercs, we'd see a huge change in game play. I think it'd be a change for the better.

Edited by Buckminster, 04 March 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Takashi Uchida]

I'm a relatively new player (I played this game in it's infancy but took a long break and now have been playing consistently for a couple months) and here are my thoughts on a good first heavy. I can give you some modestly detailed advice on the specific variants I've owned.

Looking at the thread, it looks like Jagers and Cataphracts are the recommended mechs. Incidentally, they are the only heavies I have owned thus far. I have a mastered Cataphract 3D (previously owned 1X and 4X) and am currently working on two Jagers (S and DD, will buy the A when I'm not poor).

Here are some basic observations on if you're deciding between the two.

-Jagers have tiny high arms. This makes Jagers better for firing behind sloping terrain as cover, as you can peek over and unleash autocannon dakka or snipe while keeping most of your body hidden. The disadvantage is, they don't do much to protect your side torsos, which can get sticky if you run an XL. This isn't to disuade you from putting an XL in a Jager, as many great builds require them.

-Cataphracts have big low arms. This can be frustrating when fighting in hilly areas. I hate it when my shot meant for the enemy hits dirt (or god-forbid, a friendly Locust who is uncannily just the right height to get shot in the face). The plus side is, these arms are good for learning how to roll damage. The arms stick out a bit, and may come in handy when using a building as cover (just something to consider, but I don't find myself in urban fighting situations enough to be a huge deal).

-All Jagers have symmetrical hardpoints, while I believe only the Cataphract-4X does. This may or may not be important to you, but it's something to keep in mind, especially if someone is new to Mechwarrior games.

-The Cataphract-3D is the only one out of all Jagers and Phracts that can mount jump jets. This allows for the ability to jump up behind cover, fire, and drop back down (the word "poptarting" may have different meanings but right now that is what many people use it to refer to).

-All Jagers can potentially field dual-Ac20s, if you're that kind of person

Let's look at some of the models I've played.

Cataphract-3D
-This is a very versatile mech. I've used it to poptart (ppc/ac5), snipe (gauss), brawl (lbx, ac10/20, and/or lasers), and provide rapid fire support (uac/ac5/2). I don't know if it's the absolute best at any of those things, but it's a nice mech to learn different play styles in. I tend to put my heavier weaponry on the right side. That way, in between shots when my weapons are recharging, or when I have no choice but to take a hit, I can twist right and try to absorb the brunt of the hit on the left arm. Even if you aren't poptarting, putting a single jump jet in helps with some of the more frustrating terrain. It comes with an XL engine and will set you back over 10 million once you're done with the double heat sink and endo-steel taxes.

Cataphract-1X
-Good mech for brawling. Like the 3D, I like to put the bigger guns on the right side. Stick a heavy autocannon in the ballistic point and slug it out. Has 5 energy hardpoints if you like lasers.

Cataphract-4X
-Symmetrical hardpoints with four ballistic slots in the arms. Basically, put some damn low caliber autocannons in, hang out with the Atlas, and rain hell on the enemy while they shoot at his big a**. I had a lot of success with this mech but it's not for me simply because it's engine size is very limited. In other words, it moves like an elephant stuck in molasses. It has center mounted lasers and head-mounted missiles so it has zombie potential as well. If you like the fire support role, the Jagers will do it better. Still, it's not a bad mech.

Ilya Muromets:

I've heard good things about the Iyla Muromets. If you're willing to shell out the cash, it may be worth getting to grind c-bills. It's got three ballistic hardpoints and you can do a lot of hilarious unconventional builds like triple gauss, lbx, or ac10.

-Edit: Bought the Ilya on sale, 50% off. I ran the standard triple UAC builds but ended enjoying AC/20 centered brawling builds more. The two low ballistics on the arms can get a bit tricky if you are on the wrong terrain. I've also tried some odd builds like ERLLx3 + AC10. It's a lot of fun to play and makes the cbill grind easier. Would definitely recommend if you can afford it.

I've never driven the 2X so I don't have much to say about it.

Jagermech-S
-This mech strikes a balance between ballistic and energy with 4 of each hardpoint. Great for sniping and fire support. You can also mix and match autocannons to your heart's content. Right now I've had a lot of fun with a ultra acs + large lasers build.

Jagermech-DD
-Ballistic specialist mech with 3 in each arm, and 2 torso lasers. I'm using mine as a dedicated sniper right now. Cheese builds like AC2x6 exist but you'll have to sacrifice a signicant amount of speed and/or armor to do it. Some folks like mix autocannons and machine guns. Personally, I haven't been able to use machine guns effectively yet, but hey, I'm still fairly noobish. This model comes with an XL engine, making it significantly more expensive than the other two models. Also, it annoyingly comes with Ferro-fibrous armor. You will probably want to convert that into standard armor (it'll cost ya) and then apply Endo-steel (did I mention it'll cost ya?). Along with the must-have double heat sink upgrade if you're going anything except pure sniper, this mech hits your wallet as hard as it does on the field.

Jagermech-A
The only Jager to have missile points. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it yet.
*Edit: I ended up grinding through this mech with dual gauss and sold it shortly after. This was before the LRM buff as well as the supposed SRM improvements. It may be worth holding on to now.


Firebrand
-2 ballistics, 6 lasers. I saw a very successful version with two UACs and 6 medium lasers tearing it up. I don't own it, but you may want to consider it if you want to drop money on a mech.

So yeah! That should be enough for you to mull over if you're gonna decide on one of these. If I had to generalize, I would say Cataphracts have the edge in brawling and Jagers have the advantage in long range combat. I enjoy piloting mediums the most (love my Shadowhawks and Hunchie), but I've spent the most time in my CTF-3D. Just remember that as you get heavier and slower, your positioning becomes just as if not more important than your reflexes. I learned the hard way by dying a lot. Just because you carry a big stick, you are dead meat if you get caught alone by a pack of Jenners. Have fun!

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 09 May 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

Right now, Jagermech.

[Dakross]

Takashi Uchida, on 04 March 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Jagermech-A
-The only Jager to have missile points. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it yet.

Put in 2 LBX-10's a BAP and fill it with Streaks. Lights will curse you and still can pack a punch. Somewhat range limited, but if you play smart and stick with other mechs you can shine. You handle the light harassers light while allowing them to concentrate on their job, then assist them.

Dak

[Mordin Ashe]

Wow, I am surprised how many good answers people give these days. Months ago it was more about two teams of fotm-enthusiasts trying to shout over each other. Times have changed apparently, and it is a great thing to witness.

To the point now. Basicaly what everyone said, really. If you are a beginner, stay away from more niche chassis, specificaly catapults and dragons. If you chose to take the Cataphract you get the best there is in the world of heavies. After that, you may choose more bulkier Orions for the flavor of assault Mechs or perhaps a Quickdraws if you feel like being a medium wanna-be. Phracts are rather meta-forgiving and good for new pilots, learn to love them and they will repay generously.

[Takashi Uchida]

To revisit my previous post :

I've since played with the missile Jager (variant A), got the basic efficiencies running dual gauss and just ended up selling it. Didn't even bother with double heat sinks because I knew I wasn't going to use it anyway. Since I had already mastered the 'Phracts, I don't need the third Jager elites to unlock master for the other ones.

My K/D is so much better with Jagers than anything else I've ever played, but I think a lot of it comes down to roles. With the Cataphracts, I tend to get more into the thick of battle. Though the CTF-3D is very serviceable as a jump sniper, I've used it mostly to brawl. It also doesn't help that they were my first mechs, so I had a lot of deaths attributed to poor piloting and just not having good equipment.

Playing Jagers, I typically run a pure sniper (double Gauss) or various UAC (ultra ac) centric builds. With the sniper doing hard, pointpoint damage, I'm more likely to get at least one kill before I die. Due to the role type, my exposure to danger is much lower than a brawler's (though many times a Firestarter will sneak up on me and put 7 ml's in my back). The UAC have scary potential to do continuous damage while keep the enemy cockpit shaking. Even though the Cataphract is more "durable" than the Jager, if you are constantly in more dangerous situations, you may find yourself dying more anyway.

I think my experience starting out with Cataphracts and their ability to mix up builds made me better at playing the Jager. I did use the Cataphracts as pure snipers and UAC-ers. The Jagers just do it a bit better. And I'm not saying it's impossible to brawl with a Jager, but I find the Phract much better suited for it.

[Buckminster]

So I know I'm kind of reviving a dead thread here, but I've put some play time in on the trial Cataphract, and I have to say it's a very solid mech. As much as I like my Jagers, the 'phracts are worthy mechs.

I've noticed a few things with the trial mech:

• They put the large lasers in the torso hard points, which give the advantage of being able to better shoot over stuff, but you then lose the flexibility of the extra arm reach.
  
• The jump jet is nice. Not enough to do anything crazy, but it let's you get up some of those hills easier.
  
• I like the LBX, but found that I kept putting shots into terrain. Blasted low torso hard point.
  
• I also like that the mech felt dangerous with a standard engine. I've definitely found it to be fairly durable, and it's nice as a starter mech because it's cheaper to get up and running.
  
• Despite the low amount of arm armor, that's never really been an issue. I may need to play with the armor on my Jagers.

But I do find that some of my initial theories seem to hold true - that the 'phract is better for getting in and dirty, and that the Jager is better for raining lead from a distance. The twin large lasers are nothing to sneeze at, but the 'phract really seems to come into it's own when you can bring all guns to bear.

[Takashi Uchida]

I've went back to playing my 3D a bit, running a pretty common jump-sniper build (PPC x 2, AC5/UAC x 2). If you're a middle-of-the-line level player like me and don't own a Highlander or Victor, it's an excellent mech for the role. It's doable with both standard and XL engines. I like the XL for this because the ability to reposition quickly is very valuable, especially with lrmageddon upon us.

Speaking of LRM boats, a lot of players are fielding them these days and you'll likely come upon a few who aren't facing toward you. You can unleash your 30 pinpoint damage and then reposition.

If things get dicey, your autocannons offer very heat-manageable options up close. The big weakness is lights. It can be easy to forget the general flow of the fight when you're locked into sniper mode and leave yourself vulnerable to quick mechs. It can be a challenge to hit lights with these weapons. When you do though, nothing beats the feeling of blowing away a Spider at 400m, haha.

(also I kinda regret selling the Jager-A, because I want another LRM chassis to experiment with lol)

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 23 March 2014 - 07:30 PM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Honestly saying the most survivable heavy mech for a new player is Quickdraw QKD-5

Lets break it down:

- costs 5.6 million c-bills,comes with double heat sinks,FF armour (please ditch this and go for endosteel instead)and decent amount of jump jets,which some you can disregard if you want protection,2 JJ is minimum you want.

And have fun embarassing your friends with a stupid simple fat jenner.

[Mawai]

Jaegers are good. (I have 3)

JM6-S is good for ballistic or energy builds with 4B/4E hardpoints ... I particularly like the 4x AC5 build for sniper/support.

however ...

JM6-A is one of the most versatile with 2E, 2B and 4M hard points

The JM6-A can go from 2AC20 to 2 UAC5 2LL to 2 AC5 2LL to 2 LL 2 AC2 4 SSRM2 to 4 LRM15 2ML to 4SRM6 2LL ... and so many other variations ... it can adapt to almost any meta which makes it a good starter mech in some ways though I do not like the bulky mssile launcher arms on it.

The other advantage of the Jager is the high mount arms ... pretty much if you can see something you can hit it while your legs often remain in cover ... lower mounted arms like the cataphract often require a different style of play.

[mogs01gt]

Sadly in MWO, there isnt much in favor of going with different heavies than a Jager or Phract.

[Enigmos]

Whether Cataphract or Jeager I recommend the 1 AC2, 1 AC5, and 1 AC10 builds, Put all three on one button and just hold it down until it is time to torso twist or take cover. Take plenty of ammo, at a ratio of roughly 1:1:1 ton. Each ton of AC2 gives 75 rounds, AC5 30, and AC10 15. The even ratio closely matches rate of consumption. You'll find the AC2 actually does the most damage over time and it is a pain for your target due to the shake. The AC10 gives you that little 'punch' you'll want. Triple AC5's also work well, but you don't get the punch of the AC10 and you'll miss the distraction and damage of the AC2.

Please note I am not saying take only one ton of each: load up as much ammo as your ride will carry.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 24 March 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[Enigmos]

Jaeger gives you high weapon position but high profile. Cataphract gives you good durability but low weapon position. I tend to be headshot more often in a Jaeger, almost as bad as a catapult or awesome used to be.