11606 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

PGI respond by giving therm a solo only queue (1st time I have ever seen anything like that in 15 years of gaming) and forcing 2 mans into stomps vs 12 mans. Soloists?

That was done because many single players were quitting because of the ROTFLOL stomps that were happening to pug players making them quit. While you might not like to admit it, there are more casual players/solo players than core team players and they are just as important, revenue wise, if not more important. The fact that PGI doesn't let 2 or 3 team players go into the solo queue is kinda stupid.

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

They just laugh.
They cry because teamwork is unfair (same teamwork they refuse to participate in) get their way, ruin other's fun then cry for voip. Voip gets put in and they then can use teamwork (!) the very same thing they raged at, at the very start....
So it's come full circle.

If i recall VOIP has been requested / offered since the BEGINNING of the game as something that was going to be eventually implemented. If the core group players don't like it its because VOIP will go a long way to eroding the advantage that organized TS groups currently have.

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'm sorry if that came across as rude, I know it is and I'm sorry. But the sheer incredulous stupidity of the situation staggers me. The stance of solo only just does not make sense, on any level.

It makes sense on the most basic level possible -- MONEY! If you want this game to continue they need a steady revenue stream and appealing to the MASSES is the only way that is going to happen.... I will quote something that many 'elite' players throw in the faces of PUG players "Adapt or die". From PGI's standpoint it is going to be easier to get $0.50 from 2,000,000 players each year than to get $5000 from 200 players each year.

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

We don't want teamwork, it's unfair. Why should I. PGI please give us a way to do teamwork

PUGs want teamwork, they just cant all stop in the middle of a brawl and type " Mixed lance coming in from B2 behind our assault lance, flank right charlie lance and move up alpha lance". You echo the feeling of many co-op players thinking that you are more important than soloists and that, for some reason, they way you play the game is the way it is ment to be played.

I am going to let you in on a little secret -- If PGI found out that they could make $100,000,000 by offering hello-kitty and Care-bear replica mechs they would do it. If PGI found out that they could make $100,000,000 by changing all the maps to be variations on "My Little Pony" land -- they would do it. Don't kid yourself about your importance or relevance in the face of $$.

Edited by nehebkau, 25 January 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[nehebkau]

Aliisa White, on 25 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

playing solo gives nothing but frustration anymore. even after DCing in a banshee you can do more damage than the rest of the team....
0:6 in 3 minutes. without any effort for the enemy.

Ya, this just sucks.... I always have to be the first one into the gates trying to get the mob to move forward because they are afraid of getting their paint scratched.... whats so damn hard about making a death-ball and pushing in to hit the generators -- ya you are going to die and not get kills -- but your objective is the win.

Maybe thats the problem -- more money for killing/damaging/destroying components then for actually winning.

[Neutron IX]

nehebkau, on 25 January 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

PUGs want teamwork, they just cant all stop in the middle of a brawl and type " Mixed lance coming in from B2 behind our assault lance, flank right charlie lance and move up alpha lance"

Like, you're in my brain, typing my thoughts.

I love teamwork. Love it. It's the number one most OP weapon in this game, and so underutilized.

My current unit, The 8th Davion Guards, consists entirely of myself, my brother, who is a bit more casual than I, and my brother-in-law, who's considerably more casual than us both. A casual format works pretty well for us, since it's not intimidating to them, and allows us great flexibility in our play hours, since we're on at all sorts of odd times (which will get even more odd when my Sister and Brother-in-Law move to England this Spring/Summer). Every once in a while we manage to get together for little LAN parties and the like, and do group drops (where we get consistently destroyed, but still manage to have fun), but for the most part, we solo drop separately.

I find that when I try to coordinate a PUG, sometimes it works beautifully, and is a great success, and sometimes it is...well...I think you all know, having been there.

I certainly won't mind something that hopefully makes that coordination easier.

That being said, I can certainly understand kamiko's concerns about it.

I really hope it ends rolling out as something that can benefit those that want it, without being too disruptive to those that don't.

[loopala]

as long as VOIP has a couple of mute functions, push to talk, lance and team pushes for commanders i am betting it will be good. if you hate it well hopefully there will be a mute all. which will probably get used at least once by everybody. nothing is perfect and a wide open com during a fast fire fight could be a bit much...

[Alienized]

VOIP is not the solution.
sure you can talk but will they listen to you? or just everyone talks and wants to be the leader?
its not working on a PUG format.
if you treat them a bit rough when they deserve it and talk about what went wrong they will just blame you for anyway for taking the lead.

i wish there would be a unit that just doesnt play standard meta crap but tries stuff out with a wide flexibility >_>

[Kjudoon]

Aliisa White, on 25 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

VOIP is not the solution.
sure you can talk but will they listen to you? or just everyone talks and wants to be the leader?
its not working on a PUG format.
if you treat them a bit rough when they deserve it and talk about what went wrong they will just blame you for anyway for taking the lead.

i wish there would be a unit that just doesnt play standard meta crap but tries stuff out with a wide flexibility >_>

Here's what VOIP will bring.

• Chips crunching in your ear
  
• Someone's bad music or television blasting
  
• Kids who learned new cuss words and feel you need to know
  
• Tryhards screaming 'orders' at players
  
• Bads complaining constantly on how you got them killed
  
• Trolls telling you how you suck
  
• Player's kids/siblings shouting in the background
  
• New players lost and asking serious questions
  
• Talkers who will just NOT STOP TALKING ABOUT NOTHING

Potentially all at the same time.


VOIP will end up muted on most player's settings because the cacophany will be incredible.

Edited by Kjudoon, 25 January 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[Alienized]

i expect nothing else.

i will just mute the complete crap if i am not with some ppl i know.

[Jon Gotham]

Rip Snorgan, on 25 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I really hope it ends rolling out as something that can benefit those that want it, without being too disruptive to those that don't.

Rip, I'm saddened you agree with his points to be honest.
The thing is.it Is going to be disruptive to the extreme. I had the same issue when playing ME3 multiplayer. No matter what we tried we could not turn the voip off-it made the experience unbearable for me and my 2 mates. In the end we got so sick of randoms spouting rubbish mid convo, or hearing their bodily functions/cats/dogs/wives/children/music constantly interrupting our fun...we left.
Peeps wheel out the 84% figure from that solo challenge weekend-a figure "massaged" to show that 84% I may add....if that figure is accurate and it's a big if...that leaves 26% of the population potentially very angry, if it disrupts their social business. 26% is an awful lot of custom.....

I'm sorry to carry on people, it just makes me so angry that a group of people come to the game, fully knowing what it's meant to be-get here then try to change it to suit them, because they refuse to participate fully. Now potentially my fun and enjoyment could be spolit by that refusal.
Then I see people actually defending that posture...blood begins to boil:)

[nehebkau]

Aliisa White, on 25 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

VOIP is not the solution.
sure you can talk but will they listen to you? or just everyone talks and wants to be the leader?
its not working on a PUG format.
if you treat them a bit rough when they deserve it and talk about what went wrong they will just blame you for anyway for taking the lead.

i wish there would be a unit that just doesnt play standard meta crap but tries stuff out with a wide flexibility >_>

So start it -- an every-mans unit. I'll join it.

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

I'm sorry to carry on people, it just makes me so angry that a group of people come to the game, fully knowing what it's meant to be-get here then try to change it to suit them, because they refuse to participate fully. Now potentially my fun and enjoyment could be spolit by that refusal.
Then I see people actually defending that posture...blood begins to boil:)

Right now we have.... nothing. VOIP will be better than nothing. If 30% of my games were better as a result then VOIP would be a HUGE, SUPER - GIGANTIC WIN! Heck, even 10% would make me cream my jeans as it were.

Edited by nehebkau, 25 January 2015 - 02:59 PM.

[Kjudoon]

nehebkau, on 25 January 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

So start it -- an every-mans unit. I'll join it.




Right now we have.... nothing. VOIP will be better than nothing. If 30% of my games were better as a result then VOIP would be a HUGE, SUPER - GIGANTIC WIN!

here ya go.

http://housemarik.enjin.com

[IraqiWalker]

Aliisa White, on 25 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

i wish there would be a unit that just doesnt play standard meta crap but tries stuff out with a wide flexibility >_>

nehebkau, on 25 January 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

So start it -- an every-mans unit. I'll join it.

What do you guys think unit pilots do all day? Play meta?

Unless we're dropping as a competitive 12 man, with an organized deck. We're running whatever on earth we want. Double AC 20 Cicada? You betcha. 3xSRM6 commando with almost no armor? Affirmative. 10 Flamers+2ERML Nova. Lit up and ready.

[Jon Gotham]

nehebkau, on 25 January 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Right now we have.... nothing. VOIP will be better than nothing. If 30% of my games were better as a result then VOIP would be a HUGE, SUPER - GIGANTIC WIN! Heck, even 10% would make me cream my jeans as it were.

"Right now we have.... nothing. " - There are a multitude of voip options out there. Along with a smorgasbord of units to choose from. Only thing stopping you from benefiting is you.
"If 30% of my games were better as a result then VOIP would be a HUGE, SUPER - GIGANTIC WIN!" - 100% of my games will be affected.
The ONLY time I personally will benefit is during small group/solo drops in CW. the rest of the time I'll be adversely affected. On balance, that makes it a gigantic loss:)

I think our loggerhead comes from culture clash to be honest. First thing I did when I started was find a unit, hop on Ts and socialize-that.s natural to me. I have never, and would not consider playing a multiplayer online game solo. When people deliberately exclude themselves from a solution that is already present and the affect change that ends up adversely effecting those that had taken the steps-I get confused.
This refusal is aprt of culture now sadly. It's been affecting online gaming for ages now. Companies keep trying to cater to those who won't learn and it keeps ruining titles-wow was most recent example that comes to mind. They tried to go super casual friendly and it cost them HARD. They lost a LOT of subs as a result. The over simplified raiding, class mechanics etc and people left in droves.
I came to MWO knowing it was about factions, units and teams. I played my first 50 or so games, found the same frustrations as you do in lack of communication. I then took what seemed a natural step-I looked for a unit, found one and hopped onto TS. It took less than thirty minutes. Not looked back since. I was not arrogant enough nor ignorant enough to expect PGI to cater to me.
VOIP will make a minimal positive impact in a small margin of cases trust me. It will have consistent, large negative impact in a lot of cases. It has been unused in every single game I have played over last 15 years-there is a reason for that.
We will all find out soon:)
Though PGI might have really well worked out way of implementing it yeti might be positively surprised. But mark my words, if they keep catering to solos above all others (that 26% is actually larger than that) the potential for the game is over already. Online games thrive on community this is hard to have when everyone is solo, on their own never banding together except for 15 minutes.

I pray fervently I'm wrong.

[nehebkau]

Game 1: 970 damage, 4 kills 4 assists.
Game 2: 576 damage 2 kills 9 assists.
Game 3: 14 damage, 0 kills 0 assists.

I would have done better had I been AFK I think.

[Neutron IX]

kamiko kross, on 25 January 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Rip, I'm saddened you agree with his points to be honest.

Well, to be fair, I don't know if I necessarily agree with EVERYTHING that nehebkau said, but I do definitely, and very specifically, agree wholeheartedly with that particular bit I quoted. Also, I can actually see, and agree with, several of your concerns to be honest.

I wish I knew the best answer to the whole conundrum, but I certainly don't.

I've often thought of putting in to join a bigger Davion unit, for many of the reasons you, and others, have cited, and I know there are some damn good ones out there, that would likely be a great fit. I don't play a ton of MMOs (this is actually only the third one I've legitimately put any significant amount of time in to), and I've had several experiences in the previous two that left a pretty awful taste in my mouth for MMO guild/unit politics (the same group of people I mentioned in 8DG, plus a handful of others are the only people we still are guilded with in the other two MMOs, for the same reason) so admittedly, I'm a bit more gun shy than I could/should be.

Now that they've added the ability to group with other units of the same faction for CW, I may start trying to drop with some of the folks from some of those units, and test the waters a bit, but, in the meantime, I don't particularly mind flying mostly solo if it means I get to play a game set in an IP that I have loved everything about for roughly 25+ years. I wouldn't mind a better way to "cooperate" solo, as nehebkau mentions, since I do love cooperation and teamwork, in spite of my current unit circumstance. But at the same time, I also think that if done poorly, it could be something that makes the game worse for all of us.

The real bit is, I think we all want basically the same thing, solo or unit-based, and that is to take to the field with our chosen faction and smash our enemies with giant mechs, and we want to have a ****-load of fun doing it.

And finally, I think it has to be said, that Kjudoon nailed it here...because even as a cautious supporter of VOIP (I have no idea if I'd actually want to use it, since part of my VOIP conundrum is that voice chat + the typical hours I get most of my drops in + my sleeping wife and kids + my tiny house =/= durability in my marriage ), I have to openly admit that everything listed is not only probable...but also...hilariously put.

Kjudoon, on 25 January 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Here's what VOIP will bring.

• Chips crunching in your ear
  
• Someone's bad music or television blasting
  
• Kids who learned new cuss words and feel you need to know
  
• Tryhards screaming 'orders' at players
  
• Bads complaining constantly on how you got them killed
  
• Trolls telling you how you suck
  
• Player's kids/siblings shouting in the background
  
• New players lost and asking serious questions
  
• Talkers who will just NOT STOP TALKING ABOUT NOTHING

Potentially all at the same time.



VOIP will end up muted on most player's settings because the cacophany will be incredible.

Seriously. Still laughing about this.

[Kjudoon]

Rip, that's because much like me, you're touched in the head.



Minute 4:25

[Neutron IX]

Kjudoon, on 25 January 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Rip, that's because much like me, you're touched in the head.



Minute 4:25

BAHAHA!

Ain't it the truth man...ain't it the truth...

*Edited to add, I'm pretty sure I still have a knot or two up there to prove it. My Dad was the freaking KING of that move.

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 25 January 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[Alienized]

IraqiWalker, on 25 January 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

What do you guys think unit pilots do all day? Play meta?

Unless we're dropping as a competitive 12 man, with an organized deck. We're running whatever on earth we want. Double AC 20 Cicada? You betcha. 3xSRM6 commando with almost no armor? Affirmative. 10 Flamers+2ERML Nova. Lit up and ready.

i am talking about competitive drops.

[IraqiWalker]

Rip Snorgan, on 25 January 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

Well, to be fair, I don't know if I necessarily agree with EVERYTHING that nehebkau said, but I do definitely, and very specifically, agree wholeheartedly with that particular bit I quoted. Also, I can actually see, and agree with, several of your concerns to be honest.

I wish I knew the best answer to the whole conundrum, but I certainly don't.

I've often thought of putting in to join a bigger Davion unit, for many of the reasons you, and others, have cited, and I know there are some damn good ones out there, that would likely be a great fit. I don't play a ton of MMOs (this is actually only the third one I've legitimately put any significant amount of time in to), and I've had several experiences in the previous two that left a pretty awful taste in my mouth for MMO guild/unit politics (the same group of people I mentioned in 8DG, plus a handful of others are the only people we still are guilded with in the other two MMOs, for the same reason) so admittedly, I'm a bit more gun shy than I could/should be.

Now that they've added the ability to group with other units of the same faction for CW, I may start trying to drop with some of the folks from some of those units, and test the waters a bit, but, in the meantime, I don't particularly mind flying mostly solo if it means I get to play a game set in an IP that I have loved everything about for roughly 25+ years. I wouldn't mind a better way to "cooperate" solo, as nehebkau mentions, since I do love cooperation and teamwork, in spite of my current unit circumstance. But at the same time, I also think that if done poorly, it could be something that makes the game worse for all of us.

The real bit is, I think we all want basically the same thing, solo or unit-based, and that is to take to the field with our chosen faction and smash our enemies with giant mechs, and we want to have a ****-load of fun doing it.

And finally, I think it has to be said, that Kjudoon nailed it here...because even as a cautious supporter of VOIP (I have no idea if I'd actually want to use it, since part of my VOIP conundrum is that voice chat + the typical hours I get most of my drops in + my sleeping wife and kids + my tiny house =/= durability in my marriage ), I have to openly admit that everything listed is not only probable...but also...hilariously put.



Seriously. Still laughing about this.

How about you just jump into the Davion TS3 server, and drop with folks casually? Works for both CW, and public queue. It's how ended up in HHoD. After a while of dropping with those folks, I signed up for the unit.

Aliisa White, on 25 January 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

i am talking about competitive drops.

Ah, okay. In that case, no. Experimentation is done outside of competitive drops. Comp drops are where you bring your A game, and the best tested methods possible. Scrimms, and pub queue are where you can go crazy, and bring whatever you want.

You'll never see a competitive team experiment during a league game, the experimentation was already done months ago.

[IraqiWalker]

sneeking, on 26 January 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

So is the challenge over yet ?

Can I go srm trolling for cbills without having to worry about people's feelings ?

I got premium time ticking ya kno

Challenge still has a few hours left.

MY WHINE:

You know how Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires? Well, Frozen City is the graveyard of all my winning streaks. Whenever I am on a streak, and feeling on top of the world. Frozen City shows up, and my streak stops dead right there. I don't know why. Maybe it's because my machine has ****** performance over all, and Frozen city makes it worse. Or maybe it's psychological.

You know what's the most logical one? Frozen City hates me.

[Catra Lanis]

Rip Snorgan, on 25 January 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

Well, to be fair, I don't know if I necessarily agree with EVERYTHING that nehebkau said, but I do definitely, and very specifically, agree wholeheartedly with that particular bit I quoted. Also, I can actually see, and agree with, several of your concerns to be honest.

I wish I knew the best answer to the whole conundrum, but I certainly don't.

I've often thought of putting in to join a bigger Davion unit, for many of the reasons you, and others, have cited, and I know there are some damn good ones out there, that would likely be a great fit. I don't play a ton of MMOs (this is actually only the third one I've legitimately put any significant amount of time in to), and I've had several experiences in the previous two that left a pretty awful taste in my mouth for MMO guild/unit politics (the same group of people I mentioned in 8DG, plus a handful of others are the only people we still are guilded with in the other two MMOs, for the same reason) so admittedly, I'm a bit more gun shy than I could/should be.

Now that they've added the ability to group with other units of the same faction for CW, I may start trying to drop with some of the folks from some of those units, and test the waters a bit, but, in the meantime, I don't particularly mind flying mostly solo if it means I get to play a game set in an IP that I have loved everything about for roughly 25+ years. I wouldn't mind a better way to "cooperate" solo, as nehebkau mentions, since I do love cooperation and teamwork, in spite of my current unit circumstance. But at the same time, I also think that if done poorly, it could be something that makes the game worse for all of us.

The real bit is, I think we all want basically the same thing, solo or unit-based, and that is to take to the field with our chosen faction and smash our enemies with giant mechs, and we want to have a ****-load of fun doing it.

And finally, I think it has to be said, that Kjudoon nailed it here...because even as a cautious supporter of VOIP (I have no idea if I'd actually want to use it, since part of my VOIP conundrum is that voice chat + the typical hours I get most of my drops in + my sleeping wife and kids + my tiny house =/= durability in my marriage ), I have to openly admit that everything listed is not only probable...but also...hilariously put.



Seriously. Still laughing about this.

If I had my way I'd make it so that once you are dead you can only talk to other dead players while you spectate. If you're out of the match you shouldn't be allowed to affect the outcome like some Obi-Wan. In fact I wish chat worked that way.