49 replies to this topic

[Mirkk Defwode]

Release a map development toolkit including the map maker for the CryEngine and your texture and asset packages for structures/terrain/static objects. Allow the community to pitch in and assist for this asset creation allowing us to show the style of maps we're looking for. The CryEngine map development tools normally come with other games associated with that. If you don't want to release the map maker you're using allow people to get those asset packs and use them with Far Cry 3 or CryEngine 3 game to ensure compatibility.

I'm sure you'll get hundreds of submissions but select the top 2 to 5 maps you deem are worthwhile for use in matchmaking and the upcoming Community Warfare then release these back as officially accepted maps. Give credit for the creator as a watermark on the load screens.

Similar projects have been done successfully for Halo and Red Orchestra 2

While I understand wanting to keep these in-house so you can manage the development of these as designed for the community you wish to maintain, but allowing people to interact and develop for the title they've invested it will only allow for greater attachment.

Ultimately you can also tweak or update maps to your level of standards before final release without having to worry about the initial development or creation of the maps by your designers and artists - they'll just need to do fine tuning prior to release.

There are some talented folks out there that are capable of making some amazing maps. Expanding the content you already have can only really be beneficial to everyone as well.

So please take this under consideration, I'm sure the community at large would appreciate this opportunity to become involved in the development.

Edited by Mirkk Defwode, 25 March 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Spyro]

I second this!!

[Cimarb]

I know Heffay made a similar thread about how to use PGI files to make custom mechs (http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1), but I don't think he is trying to get them to actually implement any of the custom mechs back into the game.

I also know PGI has said previously that community-based maps are a great idea, but the legal and QA ramifications are "too much work". Basically, they would have to spend so much money and time testing and fixing things that it wouldn't be worth it to them.

[CeeKay Boques]

We need more maps, this may be a road to them. I don't need Players' Frankenmech ideas, but maps... I'd play on a crappy, poorly implemented map... sometimes battlefield isn't what you want it to be. Put them on the PTR, in rotation, hardcores/tryhards will tell you what works what doesn't.

[Rebas Kradd]

It's a great idea, but the review, vetting, and tweaking process would be a lot of work for PGI. 50% of the submissions would probably be grumpy people's revisions of the maps they hate ("River City as I Think It Oughta Be!"). You'd probably only get 1% of submissions that actually meet their criteria for technical and gameplay alone - map balance, variety, server friendliness, terrain workability, and whatever else. Then you've got legal (i.e. perusing the entire map to make sure nobody snuck in a hidden picture of a Marauder that Harmony Gold could sue over).

[Mirkk Defwode]

Cimarb, on 25 March 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I know Heffay made a similar thread about how to use PGI files to make custom mechs (http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1), but I don't think he is trying to get them to actually implement any of the custom mechs back into the game.

I also know PGI has said previously that community-based maps are a great idea, but the legal and QA ramifications are "too much work". Basically, they would have to spend so much money and time testing and fixing things that it wouldn't be worth it to them.

Time for testing can be a large investment, but I also that if you give the community a means to test and explore the maps a lot of the narrowing down work can be left to the community even just from appearance and screenshots. Then it could be down to as few as 20-30 maps make the final cut for PGI to look through.

I know how the process works for 343i and Halo maps, and I'm sure if someone asked Tripwire would comment on how they officially endorse community maps and their filter process. Tripwire also runs a tournament with their community maps to help filter it down. We'd just need a means of viewing/playing the maps prior to them being pushed fully into the matchmaker.

It's only a super expensive process if they don't work out a good pipeline for how to do this.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Rebas Kradd, on 25 March 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

It's a great idea, but the review, vetting, and tweaking process would be a lot of work for PGI. 50% of the submissions would probably be grumpy people's revisions of the maps they hate ("River City as I Think It Oughta Be!"). You'd probably only get 1% of submissions that actually meet their criteria for technical and gameplay alone - map balance, variety, server friendliness, terrain workability, and whatever else. Then you've got legal (i.e. perusing the entire map to make sure nobody snuck in a hidden picture of a Marauder that Harmony Gold could sue over).

Viewing the map for things like that is a relatively quick process. Looking for holes in collision or bad scripted areas is actually more time consuming. And would be a process that only has to be done once the final maps are selected. Everything else is pretty much looking at it with an eye toward what it's potential is.

Either way with the maps at their current maps, and their scale this could all go relatively quick.

I personally don't have enough experience with the CryEngine map editor to know all the ins and outs of bug finding in it, but I know for getting stuff done in UE3 it'd be around 30-50 hours to make a good map, then another 40-60 hours bug fixing before being in a "Shippable" state. This all depends on your level of experience and the level of detail you're going for.

In the end that 1% of what you're looking for is the maps you'll end up filtering through. All those variations of existing maps can immediately be truncated and ignored. Original content only.

the legal matters can be done with a legal waiver prior to submission.

[Dark Jackal]

Probably be neat if maybe PGI could also have a contest with some tangible rewards, even monetary if possible. This way we'll have folks think a bit outside the box and compete to make the best maps to be included ingame.

[Spyro]

I mapped for a crysis mod, and I think this idea is very viable, here's why (I'll put to rest some of the concerns brought up)

First, there are many "levels" of level working that would essentially be skipped and the map would start on a more developed stage, thus saving time and energy...amount depending on forethought of balance, skill of the mapper, and polish put in.

If I were to submit a map I've already created or make a new map from scratch, for example, I would first have to replace object assets...namely buildings and vegitation to MWO assets (I'm going to assume they wouldn't allow custom objects or ones from vanilla Crysis). Any map can recycle decals, particles, and terrain texture or use new ones as the file would only need to be included in the folder...HOWEVER!!! per your fear that someone could sneak one in and MWO get seued, it would be impossible as MWO could simply review any custom terrain and decal files (without the need to even go into the map...they are .jpg as I recall)...so the only way to do it is to draw a mech out of the terrain or terrain texture...good luck doing that and making it close enough to be able to be sued for...besides, that wouldn't be of concern for a company even if someone pulled it off unless it was big enough that you would always notice it.

MWO could simply use a community vote, or have fun deciding for themselves. Winning submissions would then be reviewed in detail and tested within the company's Quality Assurance (testers) employees. They would essentially run through the map and look for holes and clipping as well as general balance. A list of what they found would be sent with the map to the mappers.

The mappers would then provide whatever additional polish they deemed necessary and incorporate the changes from the QA team.

As per legal, I believe usually the company just blatantly declares that any submission that is selected becomes PGI property.

Presto! new map, 1/4 the work. In the mod I worked for we had a few "officially unofficial" community maps that were quite well put together, balanced, and polished.

Edited by Spyro, 25 March 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Yes please.

[Rebas Kradd]

Spyro, on 25 March 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

I mapped for a crysis mod, and I think this idea is very viable, here's why (I'll put to rest some of the concerns brought up)

First, there are many "levels" of level working that would essentially be skipped and the map would start on a more developed stage, thus saving time and energy...amount depending on forethought of balance, skill of the mapper, and polish put in.

If I were to submit a map I've already created or make a new map from scratch, for example, I would first have to replace object assets...namely buildings and vegitation to MWO assets (I'm going to assume they wouldn't allow custom objects or ones from vanilla Crysis). Any map can recycle decals, particles, and terrain texture or use new ones as the file would only need to be included in the folder...HOWEVER!!! per your fear that someone could sneak one in and MWO get seued, it would be impossible as MWO could simply review any custom terrain and decal files (without the need to even go into the map...they are .jpg as I recall)...so the only way to do it is to draw a mech out of the terrain or terrain texture...good luck doing that and making it close enough to be able to be sued for...besides, that wouldn't be of concern for a company even if someone pulled it off unless it was big enough that you would always notice it.

MWO could simply use a community vote, or have fun deciding for themselves. Winning submissions would then be reviewed in detail and tested within the company's Quality Assurance (testers) employees. They would essentially run through the map and look for holes and clipping as well as general balance. A list of what they found would be sent with the map to the mappers.

The mappers would then provide whatever additional polish they deemed necessary and incorporate the changes from the QA team.

As per legal, I believe usually the company just blatantly declares that any submission that is selected becomes PGI property.

Presto! new map, 1/4 the work. In the mod I worked for we had a few "officially unofficial" community maps that were quite well put together, balanced, and polished.

Hey, I'm all for it if it's possible. All I know is that PGI can't put in so much as a gamemode checkbox without complaining about some bottleneck (now it's Launch Module, afterwards it'll be CW) or how it's not on the work schedule.

[Cimarb]

Everquest (the new one) is doing a community content kick starter from what I have heard, and it is a great idea and I would love to see it happen in MWO, but I don't think it will be any time soon, if ever.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Cimarb, on 25 March 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

Everquest (the new one) is doing a community content kick starter from what I have heard, and it is a great idea and I would love to see it happen in MWO, but I don't think it will be any time soon, if ever.

Yeah Everquest Next is using Everquest Landmark for player created portions of the world. They're going to be stitched together by level artists to make a single conducive world or used for instances in certain areas or players.

[Dark Jackal]

Mirkk Defwode, on 25 March 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yeah Everquest Next is using Everquest Landmark for player created portions of the world. They're going to be stitched together by level artists to make a single conducive world or used for instances in certain areas or players.

Nice! I hope they port over the same feature to PlanetSide 2. As it uses the same engine, the game should look very nice.

[Bhael Fire]

Crowd-sourced material would help this game immensely....as long as it was vetted by PGI to ensure aesthetic consistency; Nothing's worse than amateur maps that do not match the artistic style of the game.

I've suggested in the past that they should issue an artist's guidelines package that details the color palettes to be used in texture creation, poly budgets, shader setups, etc. Many players in this community work in the industry and I know without a doubt we could come up with some amazing stuff that PGI would be proud to use as official content.

I think this is an extremely viable way to boost environment and art asset content and will keep the majority of players sated until the rest of the core features are released.

[TyGeR STD]

this could do nothing but help the game. Even if the map went to a dev review that tweaked the map before release, it could save a lot of time for PGI. I remember MW4 Mercs had a ton of custom maps for the NBT league and it was awesome. I loved the fact that there were hundreds of maps that you could choose from. Some were re textured versions of the same map but it added so much flavor to the game.

[Imigo Montoya]

Please please do this....

there are so many ideas in th community and it would b nice if the energy woul be canalised into something, and after a few weeks the maps are really boring... especielly the 8 man maps can bee easyly upgraded to 12 man maps and pgi could concentrate on th other aspects of the game...


and it would be easy to run an PTR to test th mps beforehand... and then the community could be invited to vote which map should be made ready for relese..


P.s. please excuse my english its bad

[Ozric]

PGI have already given a negative answer to this question I'm sure, but now that they seem to be outsourcing community warfare to the community, maybe community maps are possible too?

[B0oN]

To shorten this: grab the free CE3, produce your maps, send them over to be checked, maybe (I for one really, really, really hope so) the lads bite !

Map all the maps !


www.crydev.net/dm_eds/download_detail.php?id=4

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 26 March 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[AdamBaines]

Interesting idea that I like and think they should give a try at lest once, but I have a sneaking suspicion its going to be a lot harder for PGI to implement then the general sentiment here thinks it is. Make it a contest. 1 winning map. If the effort on PGI side is too much dont do it again.

Then maybe in private matches, people can choose to use "unofficial maps" if they want.