244 replies to this topic

[Nekki Basara]

John Wolf, on 28 May 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this statement Roadbeer. However, sometimes its hard for people to see the mistake. When faced with more ridicule and poor reactions a person may get defensive instead of review their position.

Perhaps in time things will take the right path and things will be sorted out. Cooler heads, and clear paths and all that..

Hire this guy.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Shar Wolf, on 28 May 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Problem is, we already have ground rules on how to behave in the forum.


Having people pay for the privilege.... gives them a sense of entitlement beyond what they already have.
I agree with most of your points - but putting that behind a pay-wall only gives those people behind it the excuse to be elitist over everyone else.

Thats a consideration, but I think thats a paper tiger. During CB the feeling of elitism was not an issue. People were invested, were interested in the success of the game. Premium players, while a way larger number, will also be invested. There would be elitism and entitlement but the general premise would be support and constructive feedback.

Edit: I forget this: By ground rules I meant having an official path / process for players to discuss ideas that the devs can be assured its from invested members (premium players). I didnt mean general codes of conduct. Thanks for pointing that out as needing clarity, Shar.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 28 May 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

I don't understand why people consistently feel /r/mwo is filled with trolls. It seems like pretty realistic talk at its core. It's just filled with the bitterness of being ignored.

[Kaemon]

John Wolf, on 28 May 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this statement Roadbeer. However, sometimes its hard for people to see the mistake. When faced with more ridicule and poor reactions a person may get defensive instead of review their position.

Perhaps in time things will take the right path and things will be sorted out. Cooler heads, and clear paths and all that..

Let me suggest that is where professionalism comes into play, I understand you're out there fighting the good fight, but you have to know where the battle lines are, and reddit is not where you try to push into enemy terrority.

Nikko was the Clans, and Reddit was Tukayyid.

[XX Sulla XX]

I have a suggestion forget about reddit and concentrate on the official forums. I have always thought all new information etc should be on this forum first.

[Vulix]

MWO has stumbled a lot in it's history, especially in 2013. If PGI is serious about improving their game from here on out, they can start by not sanctioning threads like this anymore and trying to move forward in a positive manner.

On MWO - it is never going to be an AAA title, especially not with the number of next-gen games coming out in the next year or two (Star Citizen, Heavy Gear, EVE Valkyrie, etc.). MWO's time to achieve AAA status has past. However, PGI can still make a great MECHWARRIOR game, and that enough will keep a playerbase active and happy. MWO does not have the capability to be the best game out there, but at the very least it can be a good mech game.

On Niko - he is going to be a continuing source of controversy. He has been during his entire participation in the MWO community. Not sure who thought it was a good idea to make him community manager, but the schism between PGI and a significant portion of its playerbase will probably never be resolved while Niko remains as CM. Especially after this thread.

Personally, I may hop in for a game here and there to play with old corpmates. I like the people I used to play with. I don't really care for MWO right now, not after how many times PGI has dropped the ball on updates or outright lied to us (especially about community warfare). They will never win me back as a "core customer", because I am looking forward to the aforementioned games I listed. I feel many people are in the same boat as me.

Lastly, why is this thread even still open? People who have no clue what is being discussed have joined, picked random sides, and are now bashing each other over the head. Sad to say, this whole incident feels very typical for MWO.

[Creovex]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

I have a suggestion forget about reddit and concentrate on the official forums. I have always thought all new information etc should be on this forum first.

^^^ Best suggestion ever...

Glad to see PGI fight back

Personally I would macro a spam response in Reddit to all threads that says "We hear you biotches!" -PGI and leave it running till the forums become empty....but I am just vindictive.

Edited by Creovex, 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[dangerzone]

Hate ALL the devs, subreddits and moderators!


I'm sorry, but all this hatred over something that didn't even happen on official PGI/IGP media content is causing this much rckus makes me a think a meme war is more delightful and more meaningful than arguing over something like this.

I understand that when you work for a company and you say things ANYWHERE that are of bad intentions or bad idealistics, it can fall back on you and the company. That is a common knowledge area for most.

Niko, I understand that there were altercations between you and Serious_Table. Nobody really egged anybody on for the most part from what I am reading on Reddit. Both of you happened to just say things that upset each other and the hpg and mwo subreddits only amplified it and made it a lot worse than it had to be.

To Serious, Niko, MWO Community and SubReddit community: Everyone said some things that were bad things and bad things happened and things happened that most of us did not like. Some things were said by people whom we have higher expectations for and as a result is has caused well, you know...bad things to happen. Such as the massive argument in this topic.

I'm not here to white knight or to doomsay or to neutral (Yes I made that a verb, shut up). What if...what if....for a gleaming moment, the white knights, doomsayers, redditors, and devs/cm's all just agree to disagree. Let's have Serious and Niko apologize to each other. That is honestly the best outcome for us all here.

I mean, EVERYONE here is tense about the upcoming clan release, is CW ever coming, etc....getting mad over things like this and everyone starting a white knight vs. doomsayer war on the forums is NOT helping anyone. You should all know by now that white knights and doomsayers have VERY different thoughts about mwo/pgi/igp. AND THAT IS 100% OKAY! You are allowed to believe in what you believe in!

Heck, even PGI has their own way of thoughts and doing things. Nobody is truly right or wrong. It is our choices that are right and wrong. No such thing as a good or bad person.

Let's just all take a breather, relax and just focus on worrying about more important things. Like CW, Clans and whether or not we are going to get a freaking juice bar on our island! I'm thirsty damnit!

[S3dition]

Roadbeer, on 26 May 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Is PGI really that thin-skinned?
I generated more "likes" mocking the fact that a faction pride tournament is solo only, than the announcement for the tournament did. So by that logic,the mwomercs forum is equally mockworthy and should be marginalized as well. Wait, never mind, that's already a well known fact.

The takeaway is, you never, NEVER, let your customers know you make fun of them. EVER.

Especially when it's within a couple hours of the company's President acknowledging that a previous mockage of the playerbase, the infamous "Island" comment had blown up in his face.

Whatever, this place is hopeless

This is exactly why newer generations of developers will cut you out of everything and go back to the old days. Honestly, as I move (slowly) over to game development, I'm convinced to keep players in the dark and just give them whatever game I feel like making. Don't like it? Tough *&$%. Go complain to any other industry the way you do to game developers and you'll get thrown out on your ass. If you spoke the way you people do here, at home depot, you'd get a 2x4 across the face.

The fact is, there are a lot of sad individuals who relish in abusing others because of their own insecurities. This is magnified by the anonymous nature of the internet. But make no mistake, the level of interface you enjoy with developers right now is not going to last. Several industry vets from very well known titles have already quit and moved on to another job because of the non-stop aggression and vitriol they experience daily. Game development is an extremely high stress job without getting swatted or receiving endless threats against your family and children because some fat neckbeard didn't want you to make a small change to the virtual weapon he probably didn't even spend real money on.

What YOU people are building with this attitude of scorched earth is an industry full of faceless EA's that don't give a damn what you think, and you'll still play their games. Why? For the same reason that you people are STILL playing MWO while endlessly bitching about it. You know that game War Z? Welcome to the future of games if you continue to alienate developers this way.

There is a distinct difference between letting the developers know your opinion and trying to destroy their game and the community because they don't implement everything you want, when you want it. The level of ego and immaturity displayed increases almost daily, and it's from the same group of people. The ones on the island, and are forever bitter that they can't figure out how to swim somewhere else.

And yet, you don't care that there are people on the other side that have to read your comments. Your only response is that they should have thicker skin and take all of your abuse. Sorry to break it to you, but the job of a game developer is not to be a verbal punching bag.

Between constant attempts at government intervention, growing calls for strict regulation, ever increasing design complexity, shifting markets, rage about the game developer's skin color or gender, and pack of self-entitled neckbeards, it's getting harder and harder to justify working in this industry. When the very people you're trying to make games for are actively trying to tear you down and hate you, why would you give them anything?

In short, think very long and hard about how YOU would respond to the comments you're making, and if you really want game developers to shut out all lines of communication to protect themselves.

This isn't just for PGI, but for all game companies and gamers.

Edited by S3dition, 28 May 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Imagine what you guys could do if you ... you know, took a breather every once in awhile.

You could cure cancer.
Meet Michelle Obama.
Travel to China on a Fulbright grant.
Have your picture up on the New York City Subway system.
Be involved in drug and addiction research.
Have lots of great kinky d/s sex with young women.

Apart from having cancer [sadly not curing it], I've managed to do the things above. People, there's a life outside of this game. Live it.

Oh, and get this, with all that stuff up there (and more to come!) I realize I'm not that important. My intellect is mighty, my opinion is captivating, but I'm not better than others. I'm just a dude that loves the game and hopes it goes well. I get upset, angry, annoyed... I hope for some changes, I'm patient to wait for others, but know that if I ever get to the point of saying things SHOULD be or NEED to be or MUST be a certain way, just shoot me cause I'll have gone to douchery heaven.

Oh, and if I am so bold as to insult, bash, harass (and I'm not referring to valid thoughtful critique) you can **** the dead body because that's going above and beyond especially when I'm not actively doing what this company (albeit very slowly) is doing. For those who are the most full of rage, hate, and vitriol how about putting your own game together... ninja style and actually fight the system instead of using bloated words. Now that would be bad ass.

(for those whose lives revolve around the computer and this electronic community, I apologize.. though unless you're Ender or his sister (or brother, actually)... yeah, we're not that important).

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 28 May 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Vulix]

S3dition, on 28 May 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

This is exactly why newer generations of developers will cut you out of everything and go back to the old days. Honestly, as I move (slowly) over to game development, I'm convinced to keep players in the dark and just give them whatever game I feel like making. Don't like it? Tough *&$%.

-snip-

This isn't just for PGI, but for all game companies and gamers.

I can take your whole post and counter it with two words - Star Citizen

[Cavendish]

Anyone who has followed r/mwo for a lenght of time know exactly what kind of place it has turned into and why outreach was created.

Dont try to play the "Oh but Im super serious, have paid a billion and post on /r/mwo so you insult me!" card. If you read /r/mwo you know that constructive discussion and positive comments gets downvoted and pushed away at the speed of light. Describing it as a soapbox where disgruntled former players and trolls rule is not a lie, misstatement of fact or rude to customers/players. I respect peoples right to trash a game as much as they want to, but when they do (and really, how many non-trashing posts can you find active on /r/mwo?) they should not be suprised in any way that the devs from said game says "well, screw you guys, we are going home".

Yes, companys have the right to do that. Its not a democracy. They have the option to straight out tell customers that some behaviour is not acceptable, and most level headed customers accept that, paying someone does not give you the right to treat them as dirt.

[cSand]

So much drama!

The MWO Reddit is a cesspool, good on Niko for extending the finger there and closing that door

[cSand]

Vulix, on 28 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I can take your whole post and counter it with two words - Star Citizen

CR is laughing, all the way to the bank

[S3dition]

Vulix, on 28 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I can take your whole post and counter it with two words - Star Citizen

A game that's not out and hasn't produced anything other than a hangar bay for people to try out? Yeah, come back and talk to me in 2 years, when it's actually out and people are threatening to kill the staff or go to their children's school and **** them because a missile was reduced from 10 damage to 9.9 damage.

And yes, it WILL happen.

[Forte]

Kyynele, on 28 May 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

For what it's worth, I am truly happy that the responses to the ultimatum are for most part very level-headed, and I'm absolutely (heim)delighted to see some of the very high profile players talking sense. The community isn't as bad as some of the loud ones make it look like. Worst comes to worst, there will be a new official MWO reddit. Life goes on.

I still feel like r/mwo should remove the "official" part of their banner. Or reddit should make them. They aren't endorsed by MWO and many are actively plotting it's destruction.

[Cavendish]

Vulix, on 28 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I can take your whole post and counter it with two words - Star Citizen

Ah yes, the 44 million dollar juggernaut that spends so much time on communications and cashgrabs that they are 7 months late at even presenting the basic dogfighing module ALPHA? You do know there is no "newer generation developers" involved right? They are the guys who gave us games in the mid-90s, dunno about you but to me thats not exactly screaming "the next generation".

[Vulix]

S3dition, on 28 May 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

A game that's not out and hasn't produced anything other than a hangar bay for people to try out?

Dog fighting module is being released this week. They demo'd it at PAX over a month ago.

Keep convincing yourself with whatever you want to believe xD

[AdamBaines]

dangerzone, on 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Hate ALL the devs, subreddits and moderators!


I'm sorry, but all this hatred over something that didn't even happen on official PGI/IGP media content is causing this much rckus makes me a think a meme war is more delightful and more meaningful than arguing over something like this.

I understand that when you work for a company and you say things ANYWHERE that are of bad intentions or bad idealistics, it can fall back on you and the company. That is a common knowledge area for most.

Niko, I understand that there were altercations between you and Serious_Table. Nobody really egged anybody on for the most part from what I am reading on Reddit. Both of you happened to just say things that upset each other and the hpg and mwo subreddits only amplified it and made it a lot worse than it had to be.

To Serious, Niko, MWO Community and SubReddit community: Everyone said some things that were bad things and bad things happened and things happened that most of us did not like. Some things were said by people whom we have higher expectations for and as a result is has caused well, you know...bad things to happen. Such as the massive argument in this topic.

I'm not here to white knight or to doomsay or to neutral (Yes I made that a verb, shut up). What if...what if....for a gleaming moment, the white knights, doomsayers, redditors, and devs/cm's all just agree to disagree. Let's have Serious and Niko apologize to each other. That is honestly the best outcome for us all here.

I mean, EVERYONE here is tense about the upcoming clan release, is CW ever coming, etc....getting mad over things like this and everyone starting a white knight vs. doomsayer war on the forums is NOT helping anyone. You should all know by now that white knights and doomsayers have VERY different thoughts about mwo/pgi/igp. AND THAT IS 100% OKAY! You are allowed to believe in what you believe in!

Heck, even PGI has their own way of thoughts and doing things. Nobody is truly right or wrong. It is our choices that are right and wrong. No such thing as a good or bad person.

Let's just all take a breather, relax and just focus on worrying about more important things. Like CW, Clans and whether or not we are going to get a freaking juice bar on our island! I'm thirsty damnit!

Whoooaaa....no no no no no....you make too much sense and speak like a mature adult.

You must be in the wrong place.

[Vulix]

Cavendish, on 28 May 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Ah yes, the 44 million dollar juggernaut that spends so much time on communications and cashgrabs that they are 7 months late at even presenting the basic dogfighing module ALPHA? You do know there is no "newer generation developers" involved right? They are the guys who gave us games in the mid-90s, dunno about you but to me thats not exactly screaming "the next generation".

Yeah, you're right. Maybe we should use Mechwarrior Tactics as an example instead. Game has been in beta with founder's packages available for 2 years now.

Also, dogfighting module is being released this week in beta form. They delayed it to re-write the netcode instead of relying on what the engine provided. And guess what? They communicated to players about the delay quite well, and that's why no one got mad. PGI could take a hint. Go get a clue before posting

Edited by Vulix, 28 May 2014 - 11:18 AM.