198 replies to this topic

[IanDresariAce]

To all the players who like autocanons as they are and are tired of constant nerfes!


People, please, express your opinion on this topic TO GET THE DEVELOPERS' ATTENTION!


Dear developers, please, DON'T NERF OTHER AUTOCANONS (AC-10 & AC-20)!!!

DEVS, SERIOUSLY, STOP NERFING EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD TO MAKE IT CRAP!

You've already had your way with AC-2s and Ultra AC-5s!

WE LOVE AUTOCANONS AS THEY ARE!
PLEASE, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

[Oethe]

I love my ACs but they currently are too powerful for the pin-point meta. It was unfair that PPCS and Gause got nerfed as heavily as they did. It is time for ACs to get the same treatment and even then I find the nerfs they are talking about are minor compared to what the other two got.

[LoPanShui]

Yeah, don't nerf autoca

{This post interrupted by Jagerbomb}

What I mean is that autocannons are overp

{This post interrupted by Dakka Banshee}

A/Cs are perfect where they a

{This post interrupted by Poptart Victor}

[IanDresariAce]

Funny

But the point is, Autocanons have difficulties of their own (weight, ammo, aiming) and it's not necessary to nerf them so hard.

Edited by IanDresariAce, 28 May 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[IanDresariAce]

Oethe , yeah, Gauss is nerfed beyond any limits! But making other weapons weaker won't solve any problems. It'll just start another round of endless nerfing.
One shouldn't fix one things by ruining other things. Do you agree?

P.S. Maybe we should start a campaign for making Gauss free of that stupid "recharge"?

[Livewyr]

The Autocannons need it. (Or rather, the lasers need it.)

I don't understand why Autocannons had 3x over-range anyways.. Missiles got a 1.6 overrange (trade-off of keeping their damage consistent) Lasers got a 2x overrange, their low weight and hitscan damage is balanced having a burn time and heavy heat. The PPC has the highest heat, and a travel time, but with front loaded damage, it to is 2x. These are good things.

The Autocannons had front loaded damage and low heat (offsetting the weight and ammo dependence), and then 3x over-range to boot. It made no sense. (Like the AC20 doing more damage at the AC10's max range, than the AC10.)

They said Autocannons, so I suspect they will leave the Gauss alone, which I think is good, considering its fragility and charge-up mechanic.


This was a long time coming, and I'm happy for it.

Edited by Livewyr, 28 May 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Oethe]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

The Autocannons need it. (Or rather, the lasers need it.)

I don't understand why Autocannons had 3x over-range anyways.. Missiles got a 1.6 overrange (trade-off of keeping their damage consistent) Lasers got a 2x overrange, their low weight and hitscan damage is balanced having a burn time and heavy heat. The PPC has the highest heat, and a travel time, but with front loaded damage, it to is 2x. These are good things.

The Autocannons had front loaded damage and low heat (offsetting the weight and ammo dependence), and then 3x over-range to boot. It made no sense. (Like the AC20 doing more damage at the AC10's max range, than the AC10.)

They said Autocannons, so I suspect they will leave the Gauss alone, which I think is good, considering its fragility and charge-up mechanic.


This was a long time coming, and I'm happy for it.

Agreed. It was coming,we knew it and it is needed. To the people saying don't nerf them, well, what else do you want them to do? Make it for your shot has a chance to miss even if you aim perfectly? Do you really want that? Which would more than likely hit all weapons which still wouldn't combat the fact that ACs are currently just too powerful. They have to many perks. If they didn't nerf PPCs I would say then don't touch ACs.

However that is not the case, they nerfed PPCs which is the rival of ACs. So it is time for ACs to get nerfed or PPCs buffed.

[FupDup]

ACs only become overpowered when they are duct-taped to PPCs to form a devastating, 30-point superweapon that can pile-drive through specific body panels. ACs used alone can be viable, and sometimes quite powerful (like the famous dakka Ilya) but they don't cross the line of "OP" until PPCs get fused together with them.

[Livewyr]

FupDup, on 28 May 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

ACs only become overpowered when they are duct-taped to PPCs to form a devastating, 30-point superweapon that can pile-drive through specific body panels. ACs used alone can be viable, and sometimes quite powerful (like the famous dakka Ilya) but they don't cross the line of "OP" until PPCs get fused together with them.

Or a triple AC5 or UAC5 hitting you at 1500 meters and still doing appreciable damage, where as the superheat ERPPC can't hardly touch you at that range.

[Jun Watarase]

What PGI fails to understand is that nerfing weapons as a whole will nerf the perfectly valid single usage of them.

In simple terms they are trying to make boating not as effective but by nerfing the weapon itself they nerf non-boating in addition to boating.

1 or 2 AC5s is fine, its just that they start becoming way too good when you have 3 or 4 of them.

But any nerfs to make 4 AC5s balanced will make having 1 or 2 so weak that you need to boat 4 just for it to be decent.

The only way to fix this is to target boating specifically. Either disallow boating entirely or make the weapons less effective when boating so you get diminishing returns.

This is what they wanted to do with streak boating but never got round to doing for some reason.

[maniacos]

IanDresariAce, on 28 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

To all the players who like autocanons as they are and are tired of constant nerfes!


People, please, express your opinion on this topic TO GET THE DEVELOPERS' ATTENTION!


Dear developers, please, DON'T NERF OTHER AUTOCANONS (AC-10 & AC-20)!!!

DEVS, SERIOUSLY, STOP NERFING EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD TO MAKE IT CRAP!

You've already had your way with AC-2s and Ultra AC-5s!

WE LOVE AUTOCANONS AS THEY ARE!
PLEASE, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

PLEASE LET ME KEEP MY EASYMODE I MAKE SO MUCH CBILLS

[Rhaythe]

So in honesty, instead of 2ERPPC/AC10 poptarts, we'll just get 2ERPPC/2AC5 poptarts? 2ERPPC/UAC5? Or will people try to master the 2ERPPC/Gauss again, even with the desync?

I once poptarted at point-blank range in my SRM24 Griffin. Was rather hilarious, actually. I vote that become the new meta.

[Koniving]

IanDresariAce, on 28 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

To all the players who like autocanons as they are and are tired of constant nerfes!
people, please, express your opinion on this topic TO GET THE DEVELOPERS' ATTENTION!

You've already had your way with AC-2s and Ultra AC-5s!

WE LOVE AUTOCANONS AS THEY ARE!
PLEASE, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

No I and many others do not. But we'll never see lore-proper autocannons. The Clan Ultras are as close as we're gonna get. (You can tell by the dates of these vids).


But..
they mentioned this is primarily a range nerf (so instead of 3x range like they have been, becoming 2x range) so that brawling occurs more often.

It's very likely that because of this, AC/10 and AC/20 'velocity' would increase into something that would actually hit something.

I miss the days when this was possible.


And I dread recalling this day...

Spoiler

"2 heat" as in "2%" heat on this mech on this map.

So I'm hoping once this is all said and done, the Heat Scale (ghost heat) will be removed from AC/2s.

Edited by Koniving, 28 May 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Sephlock]

IanDresariAce, on 28 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

To all the players who like autocanons as they are and are tired of constant nerfes!


People, please, express your opinion on this topic TO GET THE DEVELOPERS' ATTENTION!


Dear developers, please, DON'T NERF OTHER AUTOCANONS (AC-10 & AC-20)!!!

DEVS, SERIOUSLY, STOP NERFING EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD TO MAKE IT CRAP!

You've already had your way with AC-2s and Ultra AC-5s!

WE LOVE AUTOCANONS AS THEY ARE!
PLEASE, LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Just lay back and think of England.

[FupDup]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Or a triple AC5 or UAC5 hitting you at 1500 meters and still doing appreciable damage, where as the superheat ERPPC can't hardly touch you at that range.

Let's play with some numbers, because I'm bored. I'll use the AC/5 only, because it has a longer range and I want to save time.


So, right now, the AC/5 has an optimal range of 620 meters and a maximum range of 1700 meters. The damage fall-off is linear, which makes it fairly easy to calculate.

From 620m to 1700m there is 1080 meters to cover, which means we have to go from 5 damage to 0 damage within that distance. This means we lose 1 point of damage every 216 meters with the AC/5 (past 620 meters).

Now, to calculate how much damage we've lost at 1500 meters. To do this, I am first going to take the fraction of 1 point (of damage) over 216 meters. 1500 meters is 880 meters away from our optimal range, so that will serve as the numerator of the second fraction.

Using my handy calculator, 880 divided by 216 equals 4.07. This means that at 880 meters from 620m (aka 1500m), we have lost 4.07 points of damage. Our original damage is 5 points. 5 - 4.07 = 0.9259blablabla.

In the end, this means that a single AC/5 will do slightly less than 1 point of damage when fired at 1500 meters. Using 3 of them together, this means just under 3 points of damage. The UAC/5 will do slightly less damage than that.

Edited by FupDup, 28 May 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[Shae Starfyre]

I think PGI will read this post.

[Adamski]

PPC meta reigned until PGI implemented Ghost Heat, which ****** over LLAS users.

then PPC + AC meta reigned, until PGI cut AC range by 33%.

How much longer until PGI figure out how to fix PPC projectile speed to something like the AC/20 so that it no longer syncs with the long range ACs, and destroys the pinpoint meta.

[Gyrok]

Rhaythe, on 28 May 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

So in honesty, instead of 2ERPPC/AC10 poptarts, we'll just get 2ERPPC/2AC5 poptarts? 2ERPPC/UAC5? Or will people try to master the 2ERPPC/Gauss again, even with the desync?

I once poptarted at point-blank range in my SRM24 Griffin. Was rather hilarious, actually. I vote that become the new meta.

Already rolled out my HGN-732 last night with Gauss + 3xPPC and first match rolled up 750 damage + 4 kills and 8 assists. Everything in front of me vaporized when I sneezed at it, and with 3 JJs you can snipe just fine.

The crocodile tears in the general chat channel were pretty salty

Edited by Gyrok, 28 May 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[TercieI]

I abuse AC shamelessly. They need to be pulled back a bit. 2x range makes sense for all of them (though it was stupid for the 2 in isolation).

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 28 May 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

PPC meta reigned until PGI implemented Ghost Heat, which ****** over LLAS users.

then PPC + AC meta reigned, until PGI cut AC range by 33%.

How much longer until PGI figure out how to fix PPC projectile speed to something like the AC/20 so that it no longer syncs with the long range ACs, and destroys the pinpoint meta.

That does nothing, they are desynced now...convergence scatters past ~500m now with the PPC/AC meta. It is not as bad with Gauss...but it still has some deviation because of timing if your target twists.