164 replies to this topic

[Sky Legacy]

Tonight some of the top ranked players in the game (many players from top teams including mostly House of Lords) held an interesting series of matches of all Timberwolves versus Victor Dragonslayers to get a bead on what mech will rule the Meta Roost.

Here are the interesting results.



all matches used "Meta" builds. Timberwolves with dual CERPPC and Gauss versus Dragonslayers with 1xERPPC, 1XPPC, 1xGauss

[Khobai]

Everything thats wrong with the game summed up in 5 screenshots.

[Sky Legacy]

Khobai, on 24 June 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Everything thats wrong with the game summed up in 5 screenshots.

Please explain. This is meant for discussion not just whining

[blackicmenace]

But Clan mechs are OP.

[Mister Blastman]

Thanks for that, House of Lords. Nice testing.

[Atheus]

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing the 5v4 is evaluating whether clan power can justify uneven drops?

[Sky Legacy]

Atheus, on 24 June 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing the 5v4 is evaluating whether clan power can justify uneven drops?

Presumably. Keep in mind I just watched the stream and took screenshots I wasn't one of the players. But presumably that's what they did. Although 5 v 4 with the 5 being 80 ton Victors doesn't make as much sense as 5 meta Cataphract 3D's versus 4 Timberwolves or something along those lines but still

[Mad Strike]

Sky Legacy, on 24 June 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Please explain. This is meant for discussion not just whining

Actually , anyone how have played this game for at least 1 year knows exactly what those screenshots means.

But they're fixing that problem on next patch

[Flyby215]

Khobai, on 24 June 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Everything thats wrong with the game summed up in 5 screenshots.

PGI is dragging their heels on the matter (likely because the Dragonslayer sells so well) to limit the effectiveness of poptarting (JJ changes, JJ heat, shake, etc.). But the problem persists, poptarting is the dominant form of competitive play, and the "best" players will abuse the mechanic as much as possible in their quest to win every game by the greatest margin possible.

The test demonstrates a few things; which mech is the dominant "meta" mech for comp play, for stomping PUGs, for padding stats, etc... and given that HoL is using them I would say this settles the debate that right now poptarting is alive and strong as the dominant playstyle.

Edited by Flyby215, 24 June 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Kibble]

Nice to know they are Falcons

[Sky Legacy]

strikebrch, on 24 June 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Actually , anyone how have played this game for at least 1 year knows exactly what those screenshots means.

But they're fixing that problem on next patch

I'm a Founder which means I've played far longer than you and I still dont know what you think it means so please enlighten me.

[CG Chicken Kn]

Top ranked by.... who exactly? The ONE tourney MWO has had?

Interesting test yes. More interesting would be the meta victors versus Madcats that weren't trying to be jump snipers.
Like say 4 lrm/med laser boats with two Jenners with UAV and a narc. After the ppc/uac guys eventually killed the lights, they would be very torn up, while the Madcats would be at full health. And still have 16 ER med lasers between them.
Or some other variation of counter to meta mechs with equal tonnage per team.

Oh and for actual ranked league play, starting very soon, with bidding on matches cz style.. https://mwolobby.com
Looking forward to seeing the "competitive" crowd there.

[Sky Legacy]

Flyby215, on 24 June 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

PGI is dragging their heels on the matter (likely because the Dragonslayer sells so well) to limit the effectiveness of poptarting (JJ changes, JJ heat, shake, etc.). But the problem persists, poptarting is the dominant form of competitive play, and the "best" players will abuse the mechanic as much as possible in their quest to win every game by the greatest margin possible.

The test demonstrates a few things; which mech is the dominant "meta" mech for comp play, for stomping PUGs, for padding stats, etc... and given that HoL is using them I would say this settles the debate that right now poptarting is alive and strong as the dominant playstyle.

First of all you are confusing poptarting with jump sniping and jump brawling. Jump sniping and brawling are not problems and no one including PGI has ever or will ever say they are because they have been a dominant form of gameplay in all previous mechwarrior games that most top players enjoy.

Poptarting on the other hand is sitting behind a cliff face or wall and jumping up shooting then hiding again.

Lastly this set of matches had very little "poptarting" other than in the very beginning. The proof is if you look at the match lengths. Some of the matches are only a few minutes long.

[Atheus]

Yeah, to be honest, while this is interesting data, it is not conclusive evidence on any subject, but it is interesting. Even if TBR is the new king tart, PGI has a lot more players to worry about than the high end guys. Clan imbalance at every play level is going to affect their ability to attract and retain players. The guys in this match obviously don't have any qualms about having to pay cash to stay competitive.

[Sky Legacy]

CG Chicken Kn, on 24 June 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Top ranked by.... who exactly? The ONE tourney MWO has had?

Interesting test yes. More interesting would be the meta victors versus Madcats that weren't trying to be jump snipers.
Like say 4 lrm/med laser boats with two Jenners with UAV and a narc. After the ppc/uac guys eventually killed the lights, they would be very torn up, while the Madcats would be at full health. And still have 16 ER med lasers between them.
Or some other variation of counter to meta mechs with equal tonnage per team.

Oh and for actual ranked league play, starting very soon, with bidding on matches cz style.. https://mwolobby.com
Looking forward to seeing the "competitive" crowd there.

First of all the tourny was only the first official PGI tourny there has been plenty others where all the same teams rank near the top. Second of all if you knew anything about the top players in the game you would recognize all the names in these matches as guys who REPEATEDLY come in 1st place in all the faction challenges. Half or more of the players in that match all ranked first place #1 in repeated faction challenges so yes these are the top players in the game, don't act bitter/defensive that you're not amongst them.

[Adiuvo]

CG Chicken Kn, on 24 June 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Top ranked by.... who exactly? The ONE tourney MWO has had?

Oh and for actual ranked league play, starting very soon, with bidding on matches cz style.. https://mwolobby.com
Looking forward to seeing the "competitive" crowd there.

We won Run Hot or Die season 3 finishing it out undefeated, including a 3-0 against Steel Jaguar Gaming in the finals.

As for MWOLobby... look, I'm glad it exists. It's nice to have more leagues around. It's not 'actual ranked league play' any more than the other, more established, tourneys are. Both Marik and RHoD have been around for much longer than MWOLobby and have had excellent teams competing in them. If you guys are trying to get your foot in the door of the comp scene, it really will not serve you well to start advertising the tournament as if it's the only 'true' one that means anything. That will just get people to not participate in it.

As for the OP, thanks for sharing! I can't really comment on it since I wasn't part of these tests nor am I a jumpsniper, but I'm sure Heim will come around to provide commentary if anyone wants.

Edited by Adiuvo, 24 June 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Sky Legacy]

Atheus, on 24 June 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Yeah, to be honest, while this is interesting data, it is not conclusive evidence on any subject, but it is interesting. Even if TBR is the new king tart, PGI has a lot more players to worry about than the high end guys. Clan imbalance at every play level is going to affect their ability to attract and retain players. The guys in this match obviously don't have any qualms about having to pay cash to stay competitive.

Yes pretty much every mech in the match is a cash only mech although obviously a Victor-9s can take the same exact weapons a dragon slayer can but the dragon slayer offers a pretty powerful advantage in where it's able to group those weapons and use its left arm as a shield arm

[Vassago Rain]

Flyby215, on 24 June 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

PGI is dragging their heels on the matter (likely because the Dragonslayer sells so well) to limit the effectiveness of poptarting (JJ changes, JJ heat, shake, etc.). But the problem persists, poptarting is the dominant form of competitive play, and the "best" players will abuse the mechanic as much as possible in their quest to win every game by the greatest margin possible.

The test demonstrates a few things; which mech is the dominant "meta" mech for comp play, for stomping PUGs, for padding stats, etc... and given that HoL is using them I would say this settles the debate that right now poptarting is alive and strong as the dominant playstyle.

Didn't you see LORDS vs steel jags in the finals?



Look at all those money only gundams.

[Flyby215]

Sky Legacy, on 24 June 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

First of all you are confusing poptarting with jump sniping and jump brawling. Jump sniping and brawling are not problems and no one including PGI has ever or will ever say they are because they have been a dominant form of gameplay in all previous mechwarrior games that most top players enjoy.

Poptarting on the other hand is sitting behind a cliff face or wall and jumping up shooting then hiding again.

Lastly this set of matches had very little "poptarting" other than in the very beginning. The proof is if you look at the match lengths. Some of the matches are only a few minutes long.

I don't think I'm confusing anything; jump-jet, pin-point-front-loaded-damage, reposition, rinse and repeat until enemy is dead. Is that not poptarting as we know it? (that's how I typically define it anyway). I think my last PuG match vs HoL only lasted 3:45 minutes as well, and consisted of 8 JJ-PPFLD mechs (I took a screenshot). I'm sure all those Dragonslayers and Timberwolves in the test had at least 1-2 jump jets on them, and as you said yourself, PPFLD.

Now, this game is not previous games. I still remember Mechwarrior 2 playing king of the hill with a Stormcrow packing all manner of pulse lasers. While I'd very much like to see a wide variety of functional playstyles in the comp scene, there's honestly no love lost from me if poptarts were completely done away with. (anyway, that's getting off-topic now).

[Atheus]

Vassago Rain, on 24 June 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Didn't you see LORDS vs steel jags in the finals?

Spoiler

Look at all those money only gundams.

It's actually hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not.