14 replies to this topic

[Gavion]

Good morning!

So, after lurking for years, I'm starting to get ... semi-serious about learning to play well. That said, i still suck. I openly admit this.

But, I'm getting better.

Here is my first attempt at a real build, using the mech that I have discovered to be my favorite, the Stalker...

STK-3F

STD 300 Engine,
Standard everything except Double Heat Sinks

Each arm has 1x LRM10, 2x Medium Laser with 1 double heat sink
Each side of the torso has 1x PPC with 2 double heat sinks
Command module on the head

Strategy is to LRM while moving in, then lighting up the enemies as I get line of sight.

Main concern is the amount of armor vs weapons... Any thoughts or help that can be provided?

And remember, before not helping and just flaming... One day I could end up on your pug. muahahahaha.

[FdM]

I'll try my best as the Stalker 3F and 3H are my only assaults atm.
- No endo steel with enough space left -> wasted tonnage.
- Too few armor. You want have to max armor on the side torsos, center torso and arms. About 40-50 on the legs is okay.
- Weird weapon choice. You try to do three different things with one chassis. LRMs for indirect and direct fire as you advance. PPCs for sniper fire as you advance. Medium lasers for point defense. You either need to drop the LRMs or the PPCs or downgrade the LRMs to 5's.
Some builds I threw together:
LRM5s with AMS No Endo
The LRM Boat with 2 LRM10s and 2 LRM5s Tag ArtIV 1800 Ammo
My own STK-3F build with 2 PPCs and 2 Large Pulse Lasers

[Roughneck45]

Too hot and not nearly enough armor. The mixed weaponry will also cause problems.

When you build a mech its usually best to have one main weapon and then support weapons if necessary. Always start your builds with full armor and endo steel. If you have to shave tonnage off start with either the legs or arms that don't have a lot of weapons in them. Generally speaking the closer you are to max armor the better off you will be. For cooling efficiency my rule of thumb is to get it as close to %40 or higher as possible. As soon as you dip below that heat will start to become a problem.

IMO your 3 best options are either going heavy LRMs with 4 mediums and a TAG, 2 PPC 2 ER LL, or 5 LL/ER LL. Those are the builds ive had the most success with.

[Gavion]

Thank you both, that's the kind of feedback I needed.

I will try to keep what you say for general building in mind too Roughneck45 - it is great advice.

Will be on later to try out the suggestions, and see what weapons I get the better feel from (what's the point if it doesn't feel "fun", right?). Thanks again all!

[Hobgoblin I]

The armor is obviously a problem, you should be carrying about 500 armor points in a stalker.

The 3F has a better torso twist than the other stalkers. You can LRM boat just as well in another variant, but the 3F, in my opinion, begs to be more of a brawler. You could try 2 PPC's, 4 med lasers, and 2 SRM 6's.

[4P011Y0N]

Try 2x SRM6 instead of the LRM10's and see how you like that. It is actually one of my personal favorite builds. With endo steel you can easily fit a STD 310, Artemis, and 3 tons of ammo.

[Autobot9000]

Stalker 3F is an excellent choice, one of the most potent inner sphere chassis, congratz for that choice first of all

You also moved into the right direction engine wise. The 255 is too slow, the 275, 300 or sometimes (in special circumstances) 310 allow you sufficient maneuverability for the tasks you'll be doing.

Armor wise: You can strip some off the legs, otherwise you need full armor. Generally 10 on each rear side is plenty to soak up any real surprise shots. If you're playing in a group or you're really good you can mount less than 10 on the rear. If you mount more than 10 on the rear you kind of have to start facing your rear to the enemy to stay alive longer, which is bad, because you can neither see them while you're doing it nor use your weapons. Especially with the Stalker it's important to torso twist. You will notice it's easier to hit your side torso than your center torso. The 3F is fully symmetric in weapon hardpoints, which means you're stripped off half of your guns when they take out your first side torso. This is also the reason why this is probably the one worst chassis to mount XL engines, again your side torsos go down first, because their hitboxes are big. The CT is basically only hit if they hit the nose of your Stalker. Good tactic is to torso twist in both ways to distribute their damage a bit to each side torso. After you've done that a bit just stop torso twisting and face them directly to start using up your CT armor. If you're lucky they hit the arms too, but don't count on that.

Your guns: You want to mount these to the arms, because this allows up/down movement and the hardpoints are mounted so high up, that you can make excellent use of cover (hills, slopes, small houses etc).

Finally there are many loadouts, that work well on the Stalker 3F. Generally the heavier the guns you mount the more you want endosteel on your chassis. I recommen to get endosteel as an upgrade. Standard strucutre would be beneficial if you choose to mount only medium lasers and SRMs, because then you can use the extra slots for extra heatsinks, otherwise you will see you can mount more heatsinks/guns with endosteel.

Some suggestions for loadouts:
4xML, TAG, 2xALRM20, AMS, BAP (for convenience BAP to allow you to ignore any lights blocking your targeting with their ECM)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...454959fb580476e

4x ER LL, 4xSSRM2, BAP (use pairs of ER LLs per arm/firegroup); you need the BAP here to counter enemy ECM preventing your SSRMs to lockon
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fe0c8161a3f0bd6

Just 4x ER LL (without endosteel)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...abb80d9f0b56db1

People definitly also like PPCs on the Stalker, you will find plenty of PPC builds out there (e.g. 4 PPC).

Edited by Autobot9000, 21 July 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

As others have said here- you have way, way too little armor. Stalkers don't have speed or agility on their side at all, no matter what you do with them, so you can't afford to have such an incredibly low armor rating. Generally speaking, if you're not storing ammo in the legs you can afford to go slightly under maximum armor, but not very much- good light and medium pilots know that Stalkers are easier to destroy with leg shots than by ripping through the torso from one side to the other, especially since STK pilots tend to have low leg armor and/or ammo storage in the legs.

As far as your armor division goes, I'm going to disagree both with what you already have here and with what others are saying and suggest that you start out with the general rule I use- rear armor should be roughly 1/3 the value of front armor. You can tweak this per your experiences, but I find that to be the best possible starting point, as it protects you adequately from sudden FS9 or JR7 in the rear when driving an assault 'mech.

While your weapon choices aren't completely implausible once weapon bracketing is taken into account, it would probably be healthier for your 'mech to trade the PPCs in for ERLarge Lasers and armor- The heat on ERLL is a bit under half that of PPCs, doubling your extended full barrage time, and saving four tons by using lighter beam weapons and then installing Endo Steel will take your armor up to the maximum for a Stalker.

Depending on what exactly you want your LRM-10s to do, I would suggest you consider your placement on those carefully- if you put them in the 6-tube torso slots, they will launch as 6-4 two-volley shots, which focuses the damage they deal and means losing less of them to terrain when firing on light 'mechs. This does, however make them more vulnerable to AMSes, so you may want to not do that and rely just on the lasers for shooting light 'mechs at extended range. Keep the ammo in the arms, though- Stalkers rarely (if ever) lose arms before side torsos, and often don't even take significant arm damage before the torso starts getting hit. This also means the medium lasers are okay in the arms- which is good because you will need them there if you want to shoot at shorter 'mechs in close combat, since Stalker torso tilt is kind of sad.

Making the changes I recommended results in this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ea59445c6c4cf5


As for the Stalkers I use, I've kept two after mastering four of them.

The STK-3F Prowler is my version of the Stalker 3F. I find it makes a nice all-ranges fire platform (and it strongly resembles your build there, actually) as long as I'm prudent about committing myself to shorter-range engagements.

STK-5S Predator is my take on a missile-oriented Stalker- I don't run missile boats, ever, anymore, just because they're so fickle as to how well they work (being heavily dependent on your allies' loadouts and equipment), and I strongly favor constant streams of 5 LRMs at a time, just to eat up AMS ammo and cause area denial through cockpit shake. The six-laser suite on that thing is also a really nasty finishing punch for anything that thinks it can ruin the 'missile boat' in close combat.

[BOWMANGR]

The 3F is a nice choice. It's essentially a mobile turret. It can hurt mechs with long range weapons AND wreck anything unfortunate enough to stay in front of you for more than 3 seconds. If you torso twist a bit you can stand face to face with a Direwolf and live to tell the tale.

Since I believe that the most important thing that new players need to learn is a bit of torso twisting and heat management, then come map knowledge and tactical awareness, I believe that you need to minimize your weapon groups so that you don't get confused with them. Especially if you aren't used to managing more than 4 weapon groups I suggest that you do not use too many different weapon archetypes. You need builds that utilize 2 or 3 weapon groups. After learning using multiple weapon groups you can gradually increase the groups to 4 or even 5. The Stalkers can have builds that use all 6 weapon groups if you like!

So let's just remove the stuff that needs more experience and stay with the basics until you feel that they are second nature. Then you can gradually add more weapon groups, bigger engines and multiple roles for your Stalker.

Unfortunately, one thing that Stalkers never teach you to do so well is using both reticles. The don't have horizontal movement because they dont have arm actuators. If you plan to migrate to another mech with hands you may have to learn new things. One the plus side, its one more thing to leave out of your mind right now. In any case, you need to remove the arms lock from the game's settings to have an advantage when targetting mechs higher or lower than you, otherwise you are gimping yourself.

The single most important skill for any game like this, NOTHING can beat this, is knowledge of the maps. This can only come with experience. You need to know exactly what your mech can do and know which spots on the map complement that strength. For example, Stalkers dont turn so well and have bad torso twist angles but they can bring down ANY mech that si forced to stay in front of them for too long. So long corridors, tunnels and narrow passages are the best places to park your mobile turret. If your enemy cant hide he can only go backwards or towards you. In both cases, you can rip him apart.

I will not provide a build because I don't know what is your preferred playstyle but I agree that your armor should be almost maximized. You can get an extra ton from the legs but that's it. Also, as you get better with positioning you can remove some armor from the back and add it to the front. You don't need much back armor if nobody can reach your back right?

Learn to back up into a wall when a light decides that you are an easy kill because Light pilots like to get after Stalkers, remember Stalkers have bad torso twist capabilities. If your back is flat on a wall though, they can't shoot your back but you can shoot them away.

Speed is not so much in issue with a Stalker but you don't want to be so slow that the whole team abandons you at the beginning of the match. Experiment with some engines if you have the c-bills to see which one feels best for you.

If you use SRMs, don't forget that the Stalker has some hardpoints with bay doors and others without. Those bay doors will delay your firing by half a second which may be the difference between killing or dying in brawls. Unless you use them to your advantage of course, my Stalker has SRMs in both types of hardpoints so there is a 0.5 sec delay which actually adds a continuous screen shake effect on enemy mechs. The intimidation factor is nice and Stalkers provide that.

I hope that general advice helps.

[Modo44]

Gavion, on 21 July 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

STK-3F

Slower but deadlier. 4xLRM5+2xPPC+4xML, STD275. Arm PPCs allow for easy ridge peeking, the Stalker's main forte. LRM5s provide a smaller spread and faster recycle than LRM10s. Lasers on 4 different hardpoints are great for tracing lights when they try to circle you (worse spread, but harder to dodge). You would need to remove/downgrade some weapons (typically missiles) to keep the STD300. Full armor apart from some leg/arm stripping is mandatory on medium and heavier mechs. You can probably strip enough to take AMS.

Edited by Modo44, 22 July 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[Galenit]

I have a lot of fun in my 3F.

Max armor, 4x lrm5 (5 tons ammo, in the moment 6 and 1 less heatsink because of the lockonbug), 2x largelaser, 2x mediumlaser, ams (2 tons ammo in the moment, maybe i go back to 1 ton as it was pre clan, because i see less missles again), tag, bap, standart 280, 2x case and as much dhs as fit. Goes 60kph and can take a lot of beating.

Use lrms in ripple fire to suppress at great range, from 600m on use them together with the largelasers (in ripple or salvo fire), between 400 and 200m you can use all your weapons, but it runs hot, under 200, you have 2x ll + 2x ml to finish them.

Most fun is at a standoff to fire the lasers, tag and lrms the same time, the first salvo will mostly hit ungided, then the second salvo has a lock and follows them to cover.

Dont play it as missileboat (sure you can spam half your ammo for supression or assists, but you should spare at least 25% for the second part of the fight to finish your lasers work). Use all 3 weapons at their ranges and you will have fun.
Used as second line mech that assists a brawler it works best.

[HlynkaCG]

As others have already stated, 272 points of armor is almost suicidally thin for an assault mech. Any or medium that manages to close with you will be able to chew through that in seconds.

Personally I run my Stalker 3F almost stock, simply adding DHS and a bigger engine.

Looking at your build I would suggest something along the lines of this. It maintains the defining features of your build (PPCs, LRMs, Command Console, and std 300 Engine) while being substantially better armored. So long as you maintain good fire discipline, ripple fire the LRMs and only use the Pulse Lasers on targets that are inside your PPCs' minimum range (range < 90 meters) it should run quite cool as well. That said it has with 24 open slots you could always upgrade to endo-steel and add a few more DHS somewhere down the line.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 23 July 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 21 July 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

As others have said here- you have way, way too little armor. Stalkers don't have speed or agility on their side at all, no matter what you do with them, so you can't afford to have such an incredibly low armor rating. Generally speaking, if you're not storing ammo in the legs you can afford to go slightly under maximum armor, but not very much- good light and medium pilots know that Stalkers are easier to destroy with leg shots than by ripping through the torso from one side to the other, especially since STK pilots tend to have low leg armor and/or ammo storage in the legs.

As far as your armor division goes, I'm going to disagree both with what you already have here and with what others are saying and suggest that you start out with the general rule I use- rear armor should be roughly 1/3 the value of front armor. You can tweak this per your experiences, but I find that to be the best possible starting point, as it protects you adequately from sudden FS9 or JR7 in the rear when driving an assault 'mech.

While your weapon choices aren't completely implausible once weapon bracketing is taken into account, it would probably be healthier for your 'mech to trade the PPCs in for ERLarge Lasers and armor- The heat on ERLL is a bit under half that of PPCs, doubling your extended full barrage time, and saving four tons by using lighter beam weapons and then installing Endo Steel will take your armor up to the maximum for a Stalker.

Depending on what exactly you want your LRM-10s to do, I would suggest you consider your placement on those carefully- if you put them in the 6-tube torso slots, they will launch as 6-4 two-volley shots, which focuses the damage they deal and means losing less of them to terrain when firing on light 'mechs. This does, however make them more vulnerable to AMSes, so you may want to not do that and rely just on the lasers for shooting light 'mechs at extended range. Keep the ammo in the arms, though- Stalkers rarely (if ever) lose arms before side torsos, and often don't even take significant arm damage before the torso starts getting hit. This also means the medium lasers are okay in the arms- which is good because you will need them there if you want to shoot at shorter 'mechs in close combat, since Stalker torso tilt is kind of sad.

Making the changes I recommended results in this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ea59445c6c4cf5


As for the Stalkers I use, I've kept two after mastering four of them.

The STK-3F Prowler is my version of the Stalker 3F. I find it makes a nice all-ranges fire platform (and it strongly resembles your build there, actually) as long as I'm prudent about committing myself to shorter-range engagements.

STK-5S Predator is my take on a missile-oriented Stalker- I don't run missile boats, ever, anymore, just because they're so fickle as to how well they work (being heavily dependent on your allies' loadouts and equipment), and I strongly favor constant streams of 5 LRMs at a time, just to eat up AMS ammo and cause area denial through cockpit shake. The six-laser suite on that thing is also a really nasty finishing punch for anything that thinks it can ruin the 'missile boat' in close combat.

My version of your Prowler build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f4b1b1a4be5e99d

[The Central Scrutinizer]

How does this look for brawling?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3c00c42f26a6a28

[Tiamat of the Sea]

The Central Scrutinizer, on 27 July 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

How does this look for brawling?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3c00c42f26a6a28

Looks a little heavy on SRM ammo, but otherwise good. Two six racks are rarely going to eat through three tons of ammo, nevermind three and a half.