140 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 31 July 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

at least very many of us bemoan how LITTLE "thinking" there is, not how much.

exactly

[Zypher]

While the OPs idea might not be the best way to implement a game mode, I will never get over how closed minded people are, I know a lot of people never really got to play MWLL, it has it's own technical issues. However, for those that actually got to play through matches the way MWLL pulled it off their respawns, the matches were far more fun than what we have with MWO, what's more I didn't hear people crying about the loss of immersion. Think outside the box please, people treat respawn as a 4 letter word, there are ways to make it work, no one suggested Halo or CoD.

Edited by Zypher, 31 July 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

BLOOD WOLF, on 31 July 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

no need to hope, It's in the works. I think that is a good mode to start with and seems to fit in the game. I do not know how they might go about doing other more halo style modes.

I believe I made that suggestion or at least hinted towards.

Zypher, on 31 July 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

, no one suggested Halo or CoD.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 31 July 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Sandpit, on 31 July 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

you do realize many came to this game because it was called the "THINKING man's" shooter right?

Pure marketing BS lol. On a more serious note, theres nothing wrong with having fun in a videogame, its why we play them. It would be nice to have an optional game mode that you dont take seriously in this game to have some fun with. At the same token, attack and defend will be cool if implemented well and I look forward to it.

[STEF_]

Alwrath, on 31 July 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Lately I have been bored of mechwarrior. Its still the same game with only a handful of maps and game modes. We really need to spice this game up a bit. We should have a game mode where it is a free for all for 15 minutes, and when you die, you respawn. Highest score at the end of the match wins. Would definitely get more people to play the game and would probably boost sales as well.

So cmon PGI! Lets do it!

Agree but no respawn mode...
Maybe a kind of "king of the hill": conquest the base (one in the middle of the map)

[Wintersdark]

Zypher, on 31 July 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

no one suggested Halo or CoD.

That's right, nobody said Halo or CoD.

Other than a limited dropship style mode, there's no way I've seen suggested to implement respawns in MWO without breaking fundamental aspects of the game. Limited ammo and persistent damage lose meaning when you can just die and respawn. I get that death/respawn is scoring for the opposing team, but it's still generally better to die and respawn than remain alive but with just one Medium Laser left on your zombied mech, for example. It takes away the importance of self preservation - not in the "Hah, I'm the last left alive, I'll hide here to preserve my KDR" way, but rather in the "I'm down to a single medium laser, my battered Centurion is barely standing, but I will hold the line!" kind of way. In a respawn game, the guy struggling to stay alive and contribute in his mostly disarmed mech is hurting his team.

[IraqiWalker]

Alwrath, on 31 July 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Lately I have been bored of mechwarrior. Its still the same game with only a handful of maps and game modes. We really need to spice this game up a bit. We should have a game mode where it is a free for all for 15 minutes, and when you die, you respawn. Highest score at the end of the match wins. Would definitely get more people to play the game and would probably boost sales as well.

So cmon PGI! Lets do it!

Have you tried Stock Mech Mondays?

It might as well be a different game mode, and the player-run experience is phenomenal.

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__740

[TygerLily]

I think a Battlefield-style "Rush" would be good. In that game, attackers have a set amount of respawns, defenders have unlimited respawns. The attackers have to blow up the objective...if they do, their respawn counters reset and the map opens up and defenders start spawning at the next objective (attackers spawn at the objective they just killed).

For MWO this might look like:

Each attacker have 4 previously stabled Mechs to choose from. But once one is gone, it's gone (12 times 4 is 48 Mechs total for the attackers)

Defenders have 4 previously stabled Mechs to choose from. After they die they can choose a Mech and keep "redeploying" indefinitely (IE unlimited respawn) Defenders also have a repair/rearm bay.

Dead players of both sides redeploy every 5 minutes. If the defenders can fight off the attackers and survive, they have some time to use the repair/rearm (else their friends will be coming back in fresh)

Once attackers get the objective, their stable is reinforced to hold their 4 chosen Mechs again.

The objectives could rotate between each phase of the map too...for example, objective one is a game of conquest. If the attackers win, the map opens up and down the lane is a single cap point (as in assault). If they cap that, the final phase opens up and they must destroy a big ol' dropship (as is planned for CW I think). Defenders win if the timer runs out or the attacker's "lives" run out.

Downsides: games must be pretty long...In Battlefield it was okay because players were entering and exiting often. The other downside: what if the attackers are dead but one guy still has 3 more Mechs after the one he's in? Everyone's gotta wait? That could suck.


Maybe the 4 mechs must be one of each weight class? Something like that?

Edited by TygerLily, 31 July 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[Sandpit]

Zypher, on 31 July 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

While the OPs idea might not be the best way to implement a game mode, I will never get over how closed minded people are, I know a lot of people never really got to play MWLL, it has it's own technical issues. However, for those that actually got to play through matches the way MWLL pulled it off their respawns, the matches were far more fun than what we have with MWO, what's more I didn't hear people crying about the loss of immersion. Think outside the box please, people treat respawn as a 4 letter word, there are ways to make it work, no one suggested Halo or CoD.

if you'll notice most don't want respawn. Most, however, loved the idea of dropship mode much like WoT and warthunder do, you have a hangar, you fly out in those units, you play until all those units are destroyed

Alwrath, on 31 July 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Pure marketing BS lol. On a more serious note, theres nothing wrong with having fun in a videogame, its why we play them. It would be nice to have an optional game mode that you dont take seriously in this game to have some fun with. At the same token, attack and defend will be cool if implemented well and I look forward to it.

I agree 100%
That's exactly why we have private matches though. You can set up the game and play any way you like that's most fun for you.

[Wintersdark]

Alwrath, on 31 July 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Pure marketing BS lol. On a more serious note, theres nothing wrong with having fun in a videogame, its why we play them. It would be nice to have an optional game mode that you dont take seriously in this game to have some fun with. At the same token, attack and defend will be cool if implemented well and I look forward to it.

First, using larger fonts doesn't make people take your posts more seriously.

Anyways, fun is subjective. It's different for everyone.

But it's important for a game to be what it is, and not to try to be everything for everyone. There are plenty of games that are what you want.

There are many problems with adding a respawn game mode as you suggest. We've already covered why it wouldn't work in MWO's system, but I'll cover the other, over-arching reasons too:

Let's assume you've made the argument that "It'll be fun for some people, and other's don't have to play it!" - a valid argument, after all. One who doesn't like Conquest, for example, can just not play it, right?

There are several issues that remain, however.

1) Each game mode added splits the player pool. This reduces match quality by increasing Elo variance within and between teams. As such, each newly added game mode needs to be strong enough in it's own rights to be worth that cost.
2) Such a game mode has many internal issues given MWO's systems, as I've already covered (persistent damage+ammo vs. respawn to reload/repair). You personally may not care about how that ends up happening, but PGI has to care. According to point #1, it's not good enough to just drop the mode in and forget about it, they need to balance it and make it work as well as possible. The dev-time that goes into that is removed from other tasks, and changes made to make it work are incompatible with every other game mode, simply because it completely drops all the underlying concepts of MWO into the trashcan.
3) Most importantly: Respawn PvP is mindless and stupid.

[IraqiWalker]

TygerLily, on 31 July 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think a Battlefield-style "Rush" would be good. In that game, attackers have a set amount of respawns, defenders have unlimited respawns. The attackers have to blow up the objective...if they do, their respawn counters reset and the map opens up and defenders start spawning at the next objective (attackers spawn at the objective they just killed).

For MWO this might look like:

Each attacker have 4 previously stabled Mechs to choose from. But once one is gone, it's gone (12 times 4 is 48 Mechs total for the attackers)

Defenders have 4 previously stabled Mechs to choose from. After they die they can respawn indefinitely (IE unlimited respawn) Defenders also have a repair/rearm bay.

Dead players re-enter every 5 minutes. If the defenders can fight off the attackers and survive, they have some time to use the repair/rearm (else their friends will be coming back in fresh)

Once attackers get the objective, their stable is reinforced to hold their 4 chosen Mechs again.

The objectives could rotate between each phase of the map too...for example, objective one is a came of conquest. If the attackers win, the map opens up and down the lane is a single cap point (as in assault). If they cap that, the final phase opens up and they must destroy a big ol' dropship (as is planned for CW I think).




Maybe the 4 mechs must be one of each weight class? Something like that?

That's Attack and Defend (to an extent). A mode currently being worked on, and will be a big mode in CW.

[Zypher]

Sandpit, on 31 July 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

if you'll notice most don't want respawn. Most, however, loved the idea of dropship mode much like WoT and warthunder do, you have a hangar, you fly out in those units, you play until all those units are destroyed


I agree 100%
That's exactly why we have private matches though. You can set up the game and play any way you like that's most fun for you.

Most have never played MWLL, most only know of the respawn modes they have played in other titles, most won't bother researching or asking others what they thought of MWLL respawn, most don't care. I am just pointing out that it probably can be done in a way that is acceptable to the masses. I did notice "most" btw, doesn't mean "most" is always right, call me crazy, but I would like to think that a small group of mod developers are not the only innovative people.

[IraqiWalker]

Zypher, on 31 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Most have never played MWLL, most only know of the respawn modes they have played in other titles, most won't bother researching or asking others what they thought of MWLL respawn, most don't care. I am just pointing out that it probably can be done in a way that is acceptable to the masses. I did notice "most" btw, doesn't mean "most" is always right, call me crazy, but I would like to think that a small group of mod developers are not the only innovative people.

1- A chunk of the MWLL people are actually working on MW:O.

2- Different player populations want different things

3- Since the game is still pretty much in development, the devs have to care about things that impact the majority.

4- While that sucks for the minority, it doesn't mean what they want won't be here eventually.

5- Dropship mode ( a form of respawn in a way), is much more widely accepted and better received by the community.

6- Dropship mode is going to be here. Why do you want to put a system that isn't that well favored, into the game instead of one that people have shown preference to, in large numbers.

7- Let MW:LL have it's system, and let MW:O have it's own system. Games shouldn't merge into a near unrecognizable blur. That would make them lose their flavor.

[DEMAX51]

You guys are aware that respawns are planned as a part of the Attack & Defend game mode, right? http://www.mwomercs....theplan#1.12.14

But apart from that, Bryan Ekamn mentioned on the last NGNG Podcast (recorded last night), that they were considering tanks and other NPC elements as possible consumables...

If they can actually make NPC units a reality it would open the door for some very awesome game modes:
An asymmetrical Convoy game mode (one team attacks the convoy, one tries to capture/destroy it)
A MOBA style game mode (NPCs are spawned regularly to push toward the enemy base, with turrets stationed along the way)

Edited by DEMAX51, 31 July 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[TygerLily]

DEMAX51, on 31 July 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

You guys are aware that respawns are planned as a part of the Attack & Defend game mode, right? http://www.mwomercs....theplan#1.12.14

But apart from that, Bryan Ekamn mentioned on the last NGNG Podcast (recorded last night), that they were considering tanks and other NPC elements as possible consumables...

If they can actually make NPC units a reality it would open the door for some very awesome game modes:
An asymmetrical Convoy game mode (one team attacks the convoy, one tries to capture/destroy it)
A MOBA style game mode (NPCs are spawned regularly to push toward the enemy base, with turrets stationed along the way)

Destroyable vehicle from whence strikes originate! Gimme it now!

Edited by TygerLily, 31 July 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Sandpit]

DEMAX51, on 31 July 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

You guys are aware that respawns are planned as a part of the Attack & Defend game mode, right? http://www.mwomercs....theplan#1.12.14

But apart from that, Bryan Ekamn mentioned on the last NGNG Podcast (recorded last night), that they were considering tanks and other NPC elements as possible consumables...

If they can actually make NPC units a reality it would open the door for some very awesome game modes:
An asymmetrical Convoy game mode (one team attacks the convoy, one tries to capture/destroy it)
A MOBA style game mode (NPCs are spawned regularly to push toward the enemy base, with turrets stationed along the way)

you do realize it's a "theoretical option being tested for attack/defend mode"

Best guess is that they're still toying around with their idea for dropship mode where you select 4 mechs and go

[IraqiWalker]

TygerLily, on 31 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Destroyable vehicle from whence strikes originate! Gimme it now!

uhhhhhh..... You sure you want to deal with a consumable that drops a Behemoth tank?

Doesn't sound very appealing with facing one of those.

[Shlkt]

Note: The following idea would be ridiculously complex to implement and will never, ever happen

R&R could potentially be used along with respawns in a longer format match. Each team starts with X amount of C-Bills (a fixed amount which is not tied to your MWO account); damaged 'mechs can return to base for R&R (which is NOT free), and destroyed 'mechs can drop in a new mech which is purchased for full price. One team will eventually go bankrupt and lose the match.

Yes, I know repairs took extremely long periods of time in the lore...

IMO it would be interesting. You could potentially see a new meta develop around cheap mechs. The costs of expensive technology, ammo, consumables, etc... would have to be carefully considered because you can't just grind for more stuff. It would also be way too complicated for most players to analyze properly and everyone would gripe about the teammate who keeps buying expensive junk and dying I guess you'd need a competitive team who wants to min/max to really make it work...

[DEMAX51]

Shlkt, on 31 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Note: The following idea would be ridiculously complex to implement and will never, ever happen

R&R could potentially be used along with respawns in a longer format match. Each team starts with X amount of C-Bills (a fixed amount which is not tied to your MWO account); damaged 'mechs can return to base for R&R (which is NOT free), and destroyed 'mechs can drop in a new mech which is purchased for full price. One team will eventually go bankrupt and lose the match.

Yes, I know repairs took extremely long periods of time in the lore...

IMO it would be interesting. You could potentially see a new meta develop around cheap mechs. The costs of expensive technology, ammo, consumables, etc... would have to be carefully considered because you can't just grind for more stuff. It would also be way too complicated for most players to analyze properly and everyone would gripe about the teammate who keeps buying expensive junk and dying I guess you'd need a competitive team who wants to min/max to really make it work...

That sounds like a cool idea. Put in some Supply Depots around the map, too, for teams to fight over and try to capture in order to give their team more resources.

[Hobo Dan]

Search and Rescue Mode

Two teams spawn at opposing ends of the map. Randomly, somewhere on the map approximately equal distance from each team a small (Locust size maybe) drop pod has crash landed. The location of this pod is random each game.

The pod is not marked on the battlegrid until a teammate has made visual contact within their sensor range (so 800m for a mech without any sensor boosting equipment).

Around the drop pod is a capture point (I know, cap warrior, but stay with me). The objective of the game is to capture the drop pod by holding the capture point for a certain amount for time (this can be adjusted, but let’s say 3 minutes).

If members of opposing teams are both in the capture point, no one can cap. Score board shows how long you and the other team have to hold the point.

Gives early fast mechs a real priority (find the drop pod and prevent an early cap), while also setting up a place for the slower mechs to square off mid to late game.

Obviously some maps wouldn’t work well because they are too small and you could potentially see the drop pod from spawn.