63 replies to this topic

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

So I wrangled permission from the BF to go buy/build a proper PC to play on as my laptop has started to overheat and shutdown during MWO games even though its sitting on a cool pad fan thing. I need the laptop for work and the oh so important facebook updates so I can't allow it to die.

A local shop call Playtech came up with this desktop build for me (I copied everything from the quote into PCpartpicker.com) as a replacement for game playing. I play mostly MWO and Warthunder.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yVN3gs

In NZ dollars its $1803 with a 2 year warranty.

I am still learning about PCs so... any good?

[Nick Rarang]

Good enough to run MWO at very high settings @1080p

[Tarl Cabot]

On the CPU, get the Intel Core i5-4690K , as the i5-4590 does not have a K version. That means it is unlocked and can be overclocked. MWO does better at 4ghz than 3ghzish.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Overclocking is WAAAAAYYYYY out of my skill set and comfort zone.

[t Khrist]

Looks good, you should be all set. Enjoy!

See you on the battlefield!

[Tarl Cabot]

Keira_NZ, on 01 August 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

Overclocking is WAAAAAYYYYY out of my skill set and comfort zone.

For now, but with the other components being purchased, in the near future it would allow another to eventually tweak your system to take advantage of it without needing another CPU/motherboard/etc. And for new systems, as long as the OC is not extreme, very little needs to be tinkered with.

Basically for a few more dollars, imho it would be better to have it and not need it right away than to not have it and wished you had down the road.

Question on building it. Will Playtech be putting it together or will you be putting it together? If they would be putting it together it would not hurt to ask their opinion, as they are right there while I am over in Texas

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 01 August 2014 - 09:16 PM.

[Goose]

I don't know what the weather is like where you live, but your CPU cooler seems overkill if you're not going to overclock; It's neat how it fills the empty rear fan mount, but I'd get something ~$30 and move the change into a bigger graphics card.

The memory strikes me as slow.

The PSU seems a hair steep, but of good size: That just what's around?

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

they are building it.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The memory isn't on the QVA for the mainboard, i'd go for something else or ask the store about compatibility.
Also, 2 x 4GB is a bad choice. The mainboard "only" has 4 memory slots, if 2 are already occupied you'll either have to:
-live with 16GB out of the 32GB upgraded (4/4 slots)
-have to take out both 2 x 4GB modules and buy 4 (8GB) modules (or 2 x16GB, but meh)

Go for 2x 8GB instead. Everyone will upgrade the RAM at one point, better be prepaired.

Put more fans into it, or skip the overkill CPU cooling system and go for a normal one (better airflow, cooling for the mainboard etc).

Get higher PSU (power supply unit). 550w is pretty much the limit for your system, means no upgrades (more HDDs 'n stuff)
also runs at 80-90% workload. you want it to be at 50-80% for efficiency and longevity.

Just one (7200rpm) HDD? better have some sort of backup storage. (also, more fans! keep this one HDD of yours cool at least)

Also, good choice to go to a local store, may be a bit more pricey but, meh, having the one, who does have to fix your system up, near you is pure gold if your not that versed with custom PC's. Worth it.

All i can thing of so far.


Edit:

S*** forgot:

Keira_NZ, on 01 August 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

my laptop has started to overheat and shutdown during MWO games even though its sitting on a cool pad fan thing.

That's like red warning lights popping up. Check if the colling fins, and if you can see, the fan. may be blocked thanks to dust and furrballs. Or, at least ask someone about it who's able to unscrew the bottom plate of your Laptop.
Compressed Air does wonders too, just block the fan and prevent it from spinning while cleaning it and you'll be good.

Edited by LOADED, 01 August 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

You don't need more than 8GB of RAM currently, and you still have 2 spare slots to upgrade if it became necessary at some point (unlikely before you replace this machine).

I made some changes, slightly cheaper, beefier graphics card and PSU.
Also got you a SSD in there as well (although im not sure how good sandisk ones are, if you could afford more i would go samsung.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/r3c2WZ

Edited by DV McKenna, 01 August 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

DV McKenna, on 01 August 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

You don't need more than 8GB of RAM currently, and you still have 2 spare slots to upgrade if it became necessary at some point (unlikely before you replace this machine).

I made some changes, slightly cheaper, beefier graphics card and PSU.
Also got you a SSD in there as well (although im not sure how good sandisk ones are, if you could afford more i would go samsung.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/r3c2WZ

still 2x 4 GB modules, Not listed in the QVA too.
PSU looks cheap (i mean not expensive) but 750+ watt with "only" bronze efficience is kinda.. well.. 35w into heat each hour compared to a gold or better (85% to 89-92%)
Should also tell that, the "beefier graphics card and PSU" will make a difference of about 100$ in electricity bills each year.

Edited by LOADED, 02 August 2014 - 01:35 AM.

[Egomane]

LOADED, on 01 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

The memory isn't on the QVA for the mainboard, i'd go for something else or ask the store about compatibility.

That, I agree on. Though the memory should run fine, even without being on the QVA list.

LOADED, on 01 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Also, 2 x 4GB is a bad choice. The mainboard "only" has 4 memory slots, if 2 are already occupied you'll either have to:
-live with 16GB out of the 32GB upgraded (4/4 slots)
-have to take out both 2 x 4GB modules and buy 4 (8GB) modules (or 2 x16GB, but meh)

Go for 2x 8GB instead. Everyone will upgrade the RAM at one point, better be prepaired.

Here, I start to disagree. There is currently no need for more then 8 GB memory and if there ever should be a need for 16, she can still upgrade. Should there really ever be a 32 GB of RAM, the PC is probably old enough to be replaced with something new.

LOADED, on 01 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Put more fans into it, or skip the overkill CPU cooling system and go for a normal one (better airflow, cooling for the mainboard etc).

Better airflow is something I can agree on, but I do not know what the shop has planned for that. As there is a 2 year warranty by the shop, I'd go with their solution for now.

LOADED, on 01 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Get higher PSU (power supply unit). 550w is pretty much the limit for your system, means no upgrades (more HDDs 'n stuff)
also runs at 80-90% workload. you want it to be at 50-80% for efficiency and longevity.

Here I strongly disagree. The System, as it is now, will already have difficulties reaching a 50 % load on the 550 watt PSU. An even bigger one would be total overkill. A 400 or 430 watt PSU is sufficient for this system and with the one listed, there is enough room for an overclock or a second GPU. Maybe even both!

Hell... my system is more powerfull then hers and I have difficulties drawing more then 330 watt at the plug. Which means, that my 660 watt rated PSU is not even running at 50 % when I overclock, while pushing the CPU and GPU. And I have several hard drives and multiple LED-fans in that case.

The uninformed "bigger is better" mentality running around the web for PC hobby builders (and some professionals as well) concerning PSUs is completly whacky.

The shop recomended 550 watt gold certified PSU is highly preferable to the 750 watt bronce PSU DV MecKenna listed. If you take the later you will literally waste energy and need to pay for a higher power bill.

A PSU will have its best performance at around 50 % load. The worst will be below 20 % and above 90 % (or 95 % depending on the PSU). The 750 watt PSU will never even reach that sweet spot. Even under full load of the system, I predict something like 260 to 280 watts consumed at the plug. That means the PSU will almost always run below 33 % load and it will have a very bad energy efficiency at this point.

LOADED, on 01 August 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Just one (7200rpm) HDD? better have some sort of backup storage. (also, more fans! keep this one HDD of yours cool at least)

One disk is fine for most users. As long as there are no critical informations stored on the drive, or there being an external backup, there is nothing wrong with only running one HDD.

The hard drive is on the expensive end though. The one listed by DV McKenna costs nearly half and will do the same for the system.

The shop recommended CPU cooler and the one one presented by DV are both fine. There is a lot of money to be saved with the one from DVs list.

My recommendation would be:
Go with DVs changes, but keep the PSU from the original list.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Egomane, on 02 August 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

My recommendation would be:
Go with DVs changes, but keep the PSU from the original list.

I changed the PSU because i wasn't sure the original would be suitable for the 770, which recommends a 600W min and the gold certified one is rather pricey so with the expensive GPU upgrade i was trying to keep costs down.

But yes some people worry over electricity builds, personally if your worried about those PC gaming is the least of your issues.

[Egomane]

The recommendations listed for GPUs are blown out of proportions. I wouldn't give them much thought and I really have no idea where those numbers are coming from.

For most single GPU systems, a good 400 watt PSU is completly sufficient. There are some rare cases where that is not the case (for example, dual CPU systems or having one of the AMD FX-9xxx CPUs). Only when you use multiple GPUs will you need more power. Depending on the type and number of GPUs the value needed can vary. Recomendations such as, "if you want to go SLI/Crossfire you'd better buy a 850 watt PSU", without even looking at the cards are simply dumb.

It's better to chose quality over power.

I'm only running a 660 watt PSU, because I got it for the same price as the 520 watt version (Seasonic Platinum) and the ability to add a second 7970GHz/R9-280X to my system at a later date, without the need to upgrade the power supply as well.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

I'll skip the quotes, because it would be to much.
just a few rants.

I agree on most what Ergomane said, also well explained.

The few things i'd like to say:

1. RAM, 2x 4GB setup is not otimal. I agree that there is no "must" for more then 8 GB. But there are quite some things where more then 16GB comes in handy (video editing, VM just to name a few)
If you never want more then 16GB, 2 x 4GB is fine. But keep in mind that you will have to replace and rebuy once you do want to go above 16 GB.

2. PSU, the store recommended a 550 Watt PSU, which is, for the setup, over 80% under full workload. That may only happening during gaming, but over 80% is to much. It will waste money, energy, and shorten the lifespan of the components. 50-80% that's where you want to be, since this PC is designed for gaming, i'd assume it will reach the maximum workload more often the not.
Also the 550W was recommended for a setup with a GTX 760 and not a GTX 770, there's a difference of 50-60 Watt for full workload between those two.

also CPU 80W
GPU 220W
rest 80-100W
Add some for peripheries (USB stuff etc)
and some spare in chance for another addition (HDD, fans,)

so let's assume 450W under full workload
If you do want a 550W PSU you have to take away 9% (for gold standard) for heat alone. That's 505W you can handle at max (for a very short duration).
that's almost 90% workload, inefficient, and with a short lifespan.
therefor, i would not recommend a 550 Watt PSU even if Gold. (600W gold should be fine, 650W should be a little better)

Egomane, on 02 August 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Go with DVs changes, but keep the PSU from the original list.

As stated above, i disagree.

Egomane, on 02 August 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

One disk is fine for most users. As long as there are no critical informations stored on the drive, or there being an external backup, there is nothing wrong with only running one HDD.

Do never store all your data on one single location. One disk is only fine as long as it's running, the moment it stops doing so, you are f*****.
Go get a cheap USB HDD and a a freeware backup software, or at least store your stuff on a USB Flashdrive from time to time. You will never run into trouble if you do so. Keep all your stuff on one single HDD and see what will happen, and i assure you, it will happen to the worst moment possible.

[Flapdrol]

Psu's are rated for the power they can deliver, not for the power they pull from the wall.

cpu 80 (if overclocked, stock about 50)
gpu 220
rest 20

The corsair 80+ gold units can deliver 550 sustained no problem, and all on 12V if need be. This psu should easily cope.

Edited by Flapdrol, 02 August 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[Egomane]

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

2. PSU, the store recommended a 550 Watt PSU, which is, for the setup, over 80% under full workload.

Ok... as you seem to insist on that number I'll give you my system as an example how real numbers look. You are way to generous in adding power needs that are not really there.

My CPU is an Intel i7-4770k on a Z87 chipset mainboard
My GPU is a Gigybyte 7970GHz Edition with a very good factory overclock.
I have 12 GB of DDR3-1600 RAM (2 modules of 2 GB and 2 modules of 4 GB)
I have 1 SSD
I have 3 HDDs
I have a total of 8 fans in my system (3x 140 mm LED fans, 3x 120 mm LED fans, a CPU cooler with a 140 mm and a 120 mm fan)
additionally there is a fan controller with a display and a blu-ray burner

The GPU is connected to 3 screens (which already means higher usage even in idle).

There is a keyboard with a monochrome display and key lighting, as well as a gaming mouse connected via USB. Additional USB gadgets sometimes include my tablet, various USB sticks, two joysticks and other stuff.

All numbers I now present are collected at the plug. They are not the amount of power the PSU supplies to the components, which is logically less.

In idle my system draw 73 watts
In idle while the CPU is overclocked to 4.3 GHz it needs 81 watts.

Under heavy load, for example while playing MWO, Crysis 3 or other power hungry games I get up to 320 to 330 watts. If I overclock my CPU you can add 10 watts. Now, with a 660 watt rated PSU running at close to 50 % usage, it runs at is best performance bracket. So I'm safe to calculate from the 94 % efficiancy (at 230 volt) it has at this point. I'm taking these 330 watts and come up with a real power usage of 310 watt from all of my components under heavy gaming.

Those are actual numbers, not some theory crafting. I can watch and compare those numbers in real time. As you can see, there is still plenty of room left. I can run my system twice with my PSU, while under a near to full load. And, like I said, my system needs more power then the one Keira_NZ wants to build.

Now, when I run prime95, furmark and some hard drive benchmarks together, I can get it to waste more power. But those are unrealistic situations, not the norm.

You are calculating with a much to high safety net. Most hobby PC builders do, because that is what they are tought on the internet.

So to get back to the numbers you used:

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

also CPU 80W

only under full load, but granted, that's needed.

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

GPU 220W

also granted as needed, but again only for a full load

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

rest 80-100W
Add some for peripheries (USB stuff etc)
and some spare in chance for another addition (HDD, fans,)

so let's assume 450W under full workload

way to high calculated. You can calculate with a safe 10 watt per HDD and fan (and probably still exceed their need by far) and 20 to 25 watt for the chipset (the intel Z97 chipset is specified with 4.1 watts) and the rest of the mainboard functions. Add another 20 to 25 watt for the periphery (and again... this number is huge) and you still have some room left, even with a 400 watt PSU.

That leaves us with a total of 80 (CPU) + 220 (GPU) + 55 (1 CPU fan, 1 case fan, 1 HDD, mainboard) + 25 (externals) = 380 watts. Once again... if all components are under full load (which probably never happens) and still with a safety net calculated.

For comparison my system numbers would look like this
CPU = 80
GPU = 300 (theoretical limit, actually it never even comes close to breaking 225, just like it is with the GTX 760 and GTX 770)
SSD and HDDs = 40
Fans = 80
additional internals = 25
externals = 25
total = 550

As you saw from the numbers I posted further up, I'm really far away from these results. Thats the difference between the real needs and calculating with made up numbers.

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

If you do want a 550W PSU you have to take away 9% (for gold standard) for heat alone. That's 505W you can handle at max (for a very short duration).

This statement got me confused. A PSU listed as 550 watts is supposed to support components with as much power. If a PSU with such a rating would only support 505 watts, I would send it back in as defective. Those numbers are not what the PSU draws from the plug, but what they are supposed to deliver to your PC components. And from the tests I have seen for that Corsair gold, it is absolutly capable of delivering the 550 watts.

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

that's almost 90% workload, inefficient, and with a short lifespan.

At full load! A state most systems don't achieve 95 % of their running time. Most systems spend the majority of their existence in an idle or near idle state. And like you can see from my real numbers, that are not grasped out of thin air, she will not even be close to that.


Edit: So we get complete numbers, I just did a simultanous furmark and prime95 run and got my system to spike at 390 watts for short moments. That's about 365 watts my PSU had to deliver.

Edited by Egomane, 03 August 2014 - 02:42 AM.
changed my PSU efficiancy to the real number for my voltage.

[Alreech]

Keira_NZ, on 01 August 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

they are building it.

The case supports two fans in the front, up to 140mm but is shiped with a single 120mm fan.
http://www.bit-tech....pec-01-review/1

The mainboard has three sockets for case fans.
http://www.gigabyte....spx?pid=4955#ov

Let the system builder mount two 140mm fans in the front instead of the single 120mm fan coming with the case.
Both fans should be controlled by the mainboard and be mounted with rubber screws or an other form of fixing that minimize noise transfer to the case.

If you stick to the Eisberg CPU Cooler it will blow out the hot air from the case with it's 120mm fan, while two 140mm fans suck cool air in the case.
That should give you a proper airflow.

Without overclocking the Eisberg doesn't give any benefit, so you could also switch to a high end air cooler and spend the money on a small SSD for your OS.

[Bhelogan]

Without getting into the nitty gritty of technical specs, the biggest change I would make as mentioned above is to swap out the disk hard drive, for a solid state hard drive. It will make a HUGE improvement in boot time, and time for programs to load. There are hybrid drives you can get as well, if you don't want to sacrifice disk storage space for speed.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Flapdrol, on 02 August 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Psu's are rated for the power they can deliver, not for the power they pull from the wall.

cpu 80 (if overclocked, stock about 50)
gpu 220
rest 20

The corsair 80+ gold units can deliver 550 sustained no problem, and all on 12V if need be. This psu should easily cope.

Rest 20? Typo? 20 Watt is hardly enough to support 2 HDDs.

HDD(s) 10 to 20
Mainboard 20
DVD Drive 10
Fan(s) 5-9
CPU cooling 4-20 (20 for the Watercooling)
Wifi card 3

That alone exceeds 50 Watt (in chance of 2 HDDS and Watercooling 80 Watt) without peripheries (external HDDs and such).

Egomane, on 02 August 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

At full load! A state most systems don't achieve 95 % of their running time. Most systems spend the majority of their existence in an idle or near idle state. And like you can see from my real numbers, that are not grasped out of thin air, she will not even be close to that.

Yes, at full load! What acutally are you doing if the person belongs to the other 5%? "Ups sorry, it worked fine for me, sorry your system cooked".

The thing is, all specifcations are given, THERE IS a possibility that a system will run near or at full workload. Do not wipe it off.
You never know what the person is going to to with the system, For this specific setup (with the GTX 770), the system is absolutely capable of drawing 400 to 450 Watt from the PSU, no tweaks, no modding or whatnot, as it is.
You don't build a sytem for it's average usage you do it for full workload. That doesn't mean the system runs at full workload, but the average workload will not kill the system, the Full workload, on the other hand, is capable to cause blackouts or even damaging the system. So don't recommend a PSU which already runs in the reds (80+% under full workload) or doesn't even support full workload.
Just because it doesn't happen in your chase, or doesn't happen so often in general DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT HAPPEN AT ALL.

As for a 550 Watt can handle a 550 Watt workload.. nope.. i assure you, it will not survive for long IF the system comes close to full workload. Again, you can not ensure the system will not reach full workload. I on the other hand, can asure that the system is capable of doing so, and will either blackout or cook if it's doing it for to long.

Egomane, on 02 August 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

This statement got me confused. A PSU listed as 550 watts is supposed to support components with as much power. If a PSU with such a rating would only support 505 watts, I would send it back in as defective.

I did not meant to confuse you, but i would never recommend a PSU with 550W for a system which can draw 500W (yes, CAN DRAW, under full workload), yet alone sell such a system and give binding warranty for it. Guess why?

I usually take of the efficience for a PSU, that's what i assume as the maximum power it can deliver. A 80+ bronze may have a 80-84% efficience but that's usually only for up to 80% workload. Once it reached that 80% workload it will behave differently thanks to the heat is generating. That's a spiral, the longer it goes the worse it get.

Generally, i see what the system is capable of drawing (full workload) then i'll decide on a PSU wich can deliver it without crossing the line of 80%. Failsafe.

Same goes for RAM modules not listed in the official QVA from the motherboard manufacturer, i would not advice it, and i do not sell or give assurance for such experiments.
The thing is, it can work, it also works in most chases, But i've seen it more than once that 2 exactly same setups with totally fine hardware behave totally different. One works fine, one is a mess of random bluescreen and freezes. The reason lies within manufacturing tolerances.

Also, i did realised that i made this into a kind of discussion, i don't know if it's helpfull for OP, guess rather not. I'll reply to the best i can, but i don't want to turn this into a debate.

_________________
to sum it up.

If it's the setup from the OP, check for the compatibility of mainboard and memory. Ask the Guys at the Store if the do know, or have experience with said board and memory module if needed. And if you're not sure, ask for QVA valid memory.
Check if you do want to stick with 2 x4GB (will be 16GB at max) or if you want to stay out of hassle once you do decide to upgrade later on.

If it's the setup DV McKenna, take the larger powerconsumption from the GTX 770 into account and swap the already close to outmaxed 550W PSU for something more reasonable. (I'd say a 80+ Gold/Titanium with at least 600-630W)