5 replies to this topic

[TopDawg]

(The mere fact that I should have to preface things like this is telling on a different matter, but I digress - this is not a troll, but genuine, sincere feedback for you. If you're actually making an effort at improving things, I will make an effort at helping you do so.)

So I know you take out time to post and get busy with the forums (Russ specifically here); I am not unappreciative. But with that said (and since I haven't been an active player/community member for ~1.75 years now), it's extremely important to realize that the way you say things also matters a great deal (whether intentional or not).

Take for instance Niko's 'apology'. While an attempted apology is a step in the right direction, for sure, it's almost worse to have a non-apology than no apology at all (and maybe it is actually worse, I'm sure it could be (and is) debated). This example of course is in the 'Regarding Reddit' thread. While there are some inappropriate remarks in the there, a large majority are civil, and reading the whole thing wouldn't be a terrible way to get more in touch with some of your communitybase/fanbase/playerbase (especially considering the new 'island comment' post, which I'll address a little bit further down). So this thread's culmination was with Niko locking the thread (ending any and all communication channels) with this post.

Putting aside the fact that it was a great opportunity to get in touch with people who left a long time ago (potentially even bringing them back to the game and/or community), and also putting aside the fact that Niko (someone known for fairly heavy handed moderation practices - perhaps more of a Head Moderator than a Community Manager, but that's a separate topic) got banned from Reddit for clearly breaking the rules (and then petitioned to the MWO community to come help him get unbanned - something also against Reddit rules), he couldn't even actually apologize for doing it.

"Based on the reddiquette guidelines it seems possible we overmoderated." I don't know why it 'seems possible'. He did that. It happened. He deleted any and all negative comments and the entire reddit was just advertising for the game. "I apologize personally and sincerely from the bottom of my heart for anyone who has taken this matter as a personal offense..." You apologize to someone, for what you did. Not apologize that they took offense for what you did (which, in this case, still wasn't even really admitted to as doing).

Perhaps these non-apologies are a conscious effort to 'not look weak' or be 'unwavering', or that somehow 'admitting fault' is some kind of character deficiency or that it will cause 'irreparable damage'. I'll let you in on a little secret (well, two actually), most people just don't care if the end result (in a timely manner) is their complaint addressed and corrected; the second being that you just can't please everyone all the time, and some people will just never let things go. The old adage of 'the customer is always right' isn't always a very good one, and sometimes it is indeed better to 'lose' a customer that just isn't worth it. That being said, it can be difficult to know when which one applies. That's just a large part of being in tune with everything going on around you (or having someone's whose job it is to do that, that you can trust to be honest with you).

A rather good example of this, I think at least, is the Xbox One (or what was commonly referred to as the Xbox 180 for a little while). Microsoft unveiled their new console and their various approaches to used games (among some other things). The response was overwhelmingly negative (and rightfully so). Sony even had their fun with it, too; Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video. The point being though, they did pretty much a 180 and reversed almost all (if not all) of their previous announcements and pretty much made it like everyone wanted. Now barely anyone really talks about it and I sincerely doubt it really affected their sales come launch time when they had a console with features that people wanted to purchase.

The 'island comment' now. While it's good that you're taking the initiative to try and mend past wounds, words/phrases like, "I simply did not know that we had very reasonable players that were founders, participating in the community under the premise that I called them out specifically as 'being on an island'." My assumption here (and perhaps it's wrong and I'm merely giving you the benefit of the doubt) is that you're trying to apologize for having not only said the comment in general (based on the context of the entire post), but also for 'reasonable players' that thought you were talking to them/lumping them into that context.

When broken down like that, it seems rather clear where (and why) a breakdown in communication might result from that. Now I'm not saying that there aren't trolls, that there aren't people who are genuinely toxic, and even go out of their way to be downright mean sometimes. The point is, you don't really want to address them (and if moderation is on point/fair), you don't ever really have to. And the clearer your statements/wording, the less animosity that gets bred (and can even quells/get rid of previous animosity). I mention some of this here in this post, but being only two paragraphs I'll lazily copy and paste it here:

"As a business, you have done some ethically questionable things; what some might refer to (and have referred to) as borderline fraudulent. That's not something you can just sweep under the rug, especially with a pitch that's pretty much been like every other pitch, sans IGP now.

A lot of the 'hate' (for lack of a better term) directed at you (as a company) is founded in quite discernible examples. Without really going into them, it's important to at least acknowledge that people have a reason for what they're doing and the way they feel. It doesn't necessarily help 'the process' of 'trying to get back on track', I agree, but we've passed that point of divergence ages ago now."

Now of course, PR is a bit of a double-edged sword. It can help you better get your point across, building good will and good relations in the process (of course you then have to follow through on what you say), or it can be more of what is referred to as a being a spin doctor, someone who purposely and willfully leads people 'astray' in order to get more favorable views of their position. It seems fairly obvious that the first is the more desirable path, leading to the best long-term results.

All in all, communicating with a community is definitely a tricky business (and especially one as impassioned as the BT one). There are a lot of people that appreciate the improved communication and involvement with the community (which is also part of the reason I've spent some time writing up feedback for you, as I said in the opening comment), but it's also important to remember that maybe taking an extra ~2 minutes to really get out what it is you want to say, without potentially offending people (or giving others more ammunition), will be most beneficial in the short and long run.

I hope this was at least somewhat helpful, perhaps in seeing things more from a 'community side' of the equation, and perhaps just to be made aware of some other things that you might not have been. Anywho, best of luck and I do hope you keep working on improving!

[Hoax415]

Hell of a post. Shame if they don't see it.

[BLOOD WOLF]

You should at least take your time to read it sheesh. Also the island comment was not directed towards founders. It was directed towards those that were going against what the majority of players fer about aspects of the game. I remember when he made that comment.

most of it is garbage but there are a few good pickings.

[TopDawg]

Hoax415, on 15 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Hell of a post. Shame if they don't see it.

Thanks. And I hope they do. PR right now is objectively one of their weak points and they could quite easily bring that around with a little work, which would undoubtedly help with this 'new leaf' (to borrow from Russ) endeavor.

Davegt27, on 15 September 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

I don't want to read all that can I get a shortened version ?

wait let me guess he is crying about something

I realize based on your post that you have a short attention span (and perhaps an angsty and aggressive personality). As such, I will keep this short and unintimidating for you:

You are incorrect.

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 September 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

You should at least take your time to read it sheesh. Also the island comment was not directed towards founders. It was directed towards those that were going against what the majority of players fer about aspects of the game. I remember when he made that comment.

most of it is garbage but there are a few good pickings.

If you would be so kind as to do me a courtesy, can you please explain what makes 'most of it garbage'? I realize that it's much easier to just insult it without saying anything else, and if that's the type of person you are, far be it from me to try and cease that, but perhaps this could be a teaching moment for both of us.

[Pyrrho]

I think the TL;DR (for those that don't want to read a bunch of stuff) would be along the lines of:

"If your house was built below sea-level, a fresh coat of paint may not be enough to protect you from a storm. I am not saying a new house needs to be built or that the owners need to move out of town, but maybe they want to put that thing on stilts so it doesn't flood."

[TopDawg]

Pyrrho, on 16 September 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

I think the TL;DR (for those that don't want to read a bunch of stuff) would be along the lines of:

"If your house was built below sea-level, a fresh coat of paint may not be enough to protect you from a storm. I am not saying a new house needs to be built or that the owners need to move out of town, but maybe they want to put that thing on stilts so it doesn't flood."

That's not a bad TL;DR. It's unfortunate that a lot of people don't take the time to write feedback, or read it when it's left.

Will PGI behave differently now without IGP and are they trying to 'do the right thing', or is it simply another ploy to sell more Mech Packs? I dunno, but as long as they seem to be making an effort to improve, I'll make an effort to try and help them. I hope they turn it around, but only time will tell.