63 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I can't say about that as I am at work or sleeping "early"

Must be nice. I still can't sleep past 4am.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

This is so epic-bad, it's almost funny. Can you please fix the MM while you are working on all these other fixes. This is not fun at all.

It seems like MM is working as intended.

I'm more shocked that you're in a Warhawk, only did 200dmg, while the RAVEN and the KIT FOX did almost as good as you (actually the Kit Fox did much better), with the Raven getting 1 kill.

I'd like to present this as Evidence #1 to debunk P2W. Just because you pay doesn't mean you're always going to win. Everyone gets rolled now and then.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 16 September 2014 - 10:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 16 September 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Must be nice. I still can't sleep past 4am.

Right now I have to get up at 3:30am for my 10 hour shift.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

This is so epic-bad, it's almost funny. Can you please fix the MM while you are working on all these other fixes. This is not fun at all.

The worst of this Ive seen was a 500 ton variance between heir team and ours but that was before the mm was fixed

[Heffay]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

The worst of this Ive seen was a 500 ton variance between heir team and ours but that was before the mm was fixed

Welcome back, Buddah!

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Right now I have to get up at 3:30am for my 10 hour shift.

Yeah, well, mine's still military related. Evidently, you can take the guy out of the Army but you can't take the Army out of the guy...or something like that.

[Artgathan]

Part of the problem is that (to my understanding) the MM uses lots of averages to determine team composition. In theory if every player in the match had an "average" performance, you'd have a great game on your hands.

However we don't often perform our "average" - we perform slightly above or below it, which starts to skew results. Piled on top of this is the fact that humans like to think in terms of discrete events rather than expected values, which makes the MM seem more unfair than it really is.

[Paul Inouye]

Remember, new players are dropped into matches at a very low Elo rating.. I believe the current value is 900.

OP:
I took a look at your Elo scores and you reside in the middle of the Elo curve. This is the highest population of players at any given moment. Chances of the match maker giving up and widening (release valve) Elo criteria is slim due to the high population in your range.

Rolls happen. One team out maneuvers the other. Someone get's caught off guard. People cluster too tightly and the blob becomes a damage sponge and there's no time/way to react quickly enough. In your screenshot it shows a battle time of 3:36. That's not a long match. It looks like the winning team pushed very agressively and poured on the damage as they encountered your teams in a blob or maybe even single filing into the enemy's line of fire.

[Redshift2k5]

Wipes are not neccesarily the MM's fault. I BET if they take the actual Elo of all those players it balances out just fine as per the MM's rules.

Play some private matches of 12 vs 12 and even with identical teams you'll still see an occasional wipe, because a failure in positioning or tactics can = a wipe even if everything else is even.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 16 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Yeah, well, mine's still military related. Evidently, you can take the guy out of the Army but you can't take the Army out of the guy...or something like that.

It's $49 an hour for the first 2 hour as they are my "overtime" hours! It's something like that for me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 September 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[Jman5]

I'll tell you exactly what happened because I try to do it every time I get River City. The game loads and someone like me is screaming in allied chat to rush immediately counterclockwise. Unlike your team he gives his team a workable plan of action doable for lone wolves. The match starts and his entire team immediately rush counter clockwise. Meanwhile your team stands around in the open. Maybe they run the wrong way or split up a bit. Either way, they are not prepared to move immediately away from the 12 oncoming mechs and you lose a lance very quickly. If you're still not set up and the other team is aggressive, they keep rolling forward toward the next lance. Then they clean up and you get a 12-1 stomp in 3 and a half minutes.

River City is a small map that rewards aggression and mobility on Skirmish. That is why it's my favorite map.

[Willard Phule]

Paul Inouye, on 16 September 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Remember, new players are dropped into matches at a very low Elo rating.. I believe the current value is 900.

Paul, can you clarify that a bit?

That value of 900 is effective until they finish their first 25 matches, correct? Then after that, they're inflated to 1700-1800...which puts them in the mid-range (the highest population at any given moment).

Is this not correct?

[Mercules]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

My point is clearly these are new players that I have no business playing with.

I wouldn't say that it was all that clear or that your business is so advanced you shouldn't be hanging with the "new crew". I hope I am slightly higher than that, some days I wonder.

[Why Run]

Paul Inouye, on 16 September 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Remember, new players are dropped into matches at a very low Elo rating.. I believe the current value is 900.

OP:
I took a look at your Elo scores and you reside in the middle of the Elo curve. This is the highest population of players at any given moment. Chances of the match maker giving up and widening (release valve) Elo criteria is slim due to the high population in your range.

Rolls happen. One team out maneuvers the other. Someone get's caught off guard. People cluster too tightly and the blob becomes a damage sponge and there's no time/way to react quickly enough. In your screenshot it shows a battle time of 3:36. That's not a long match. It looks like the winning team pushed very agressively and poured on the damage as they encountered your teams in a blob or maybe even single filing into the enemy's line of fire.

I know I'm in the middle with Assault. I play them enough to move the needle past new, but not enough to move it upward. I have 150 assault drops compared to some silly 1000+ heavy drops (playing as infrequently as I do). Also it appears my w/l is roughly neutral (in assault), which I'm sure you can confirm (which is below my other weight class averages). I expect to be in the "middle" population, which I would assume is the largest.

I fail to understand, given that, how you can end up on a team where 6 people do less than 30 points damage. Rolls happen WAY too frequently with horribly imbalanced teams. I am not sure I've ever scored less than 30 points damage, except when I was NEW. I know it expands to fill slots, but I don't believe it's really possible, unless the population is really that small, to end up with that many guys who did literally nothing in 3minutes. I fail to see how that is healthy for a new player base. I doubt those guys had fun... I doubt it makes them want to play more.

Once again, I upgrade to Masakari LAST NIGHT. I didn't even have cool run unlocked! I still manage to hit something! At 200 damage I figure I should be somewhere below my average assault teammates...

Edited by Why Run, 16 September 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[1453 R]

Everybody has off days. I've had my share of games, even in recent times, where I manage to derp it up hardcore and go down with eighty damage to my name, or less. Those games, though? Those are on me. Blaming the matchmaker for putting me in with scrubs and making me catch their scrub-cooties doesn't do me a lick of good whatsoever, whereas saying to myself "Self, that was disgraceful. You're better than that and you know it. Next time remember your basics and try to aim before you fire" has in fact helped kick me out of a slump a time or two.

Sometimes, of course, the best thing you can do is just put the game down for a day or two and let the bad mojo pass. It's a fact of gaming life - sometimes it's just not your day, man.

[Bilbo]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

I know I'm in the middle with Assault. I play them enough to move the needle past new, but not enough to move it upward. I have 150 assault drops compared to some silly 1000+ heavy drops (playing as infrequently as I do). Also it appears my w/l is roughly neutral (in assault), which I'm sure you can confirm (which is below my other weight class averages). I expect to be in the "middle" population, which I would assume is the largest.

I fail to understand, given that, how you can end up on a team where 6 people do less than 30 points damage. Rolls happen WAY too frequently with horribly imbalanced teams. I am not sure I've ever scored less than 30 points damage, except when I was NEW. I know it expands to fill slots, but I don't believe it's really possible, unless the population is really that small, to end up with that many guys who did literally nothing in 3minutes. I fail to see how that is healthy for a new player base. I doubt those guys had fun... I doubt it makes them want to play more.

Once again, I upgrade to Masakari LAST NIGHT. I didn't even have cool run unlocked! I still manage to hit something! At 200 damage I figure I should be somewhere below my average assault teammates...

Out of curiosity, how exactly do you know how long your teammates have been playing?

[SI The Joker]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

I know I'm in the middle with Assault. I play them enough to move the needle past new, but not enough to move it upward. I have 150 assault drops compared to some silly 1000+ heavy drops (playing as infrequently as I do). Also it appears my w/l is roughly neutral (in assault), which I'm sure you can confirm (which is below my other weight class averages). I expect to be in the "middle" population, which I would assume is the largest.

I fail to understand, given that, how you can end up on a team where 6 people do less than 30 points damage. Rolls happen WAY too frequently with horribly imbalanced teams. I am not sure I've ever scored less than 30 points damage, except when I was NEW. I know it expands to fill slots, but I don't believe it's really possible, unless the population is really that small, to end up with that many guys who did literally nothing in 3minutes. I fail to see how that is healthy for a new player base. I doubt those guys had fun... I doubt it makes them want to play more.

Once again, I upgrade to Masakari LAST NIGHT. I didn't even have cool run unlocked! I still manage to hit something! At 200 damage I figure I should be somewhere below my average assault teammates...

You say way too often... How often? Run 30 matches and count (with proof so the community can see it) and let's see how many are roflstomps?

I have to be honest... they happen but not NEARLY as often as they did months ago. Matchmaker may not be perfect, but the quality of the matches that I've seen (and I realize I can't speak for your gaming experience) has gone up significantly.

[Heffay]

Willard Phule, on 16 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Paul, can you clarify that a bit?

That value of 900 is effective until they finish their first 25 matches, correct? Then after that, they're inflated to 1700-1800...which puts them in the mid-range (the highest population at any given moment).

Is this not correct?

1700 isn't mid range. It's pretty high; like top 30% or something like that.

Before they changed the starting Elo range (from 1100), it was reset to 1300 after the trial period. No idea if it's reset now, or if it's allowed to fluctuate from the 900 after the recruit period.

[Why Run]

I had one even match in the last dozen. Most were rolf stomps, either we won, or they did. I'd be nice not to have to SS every single match. I don't know how I need to get into the "quality match" segment, but I'd sure love to know... (actually my heavy ELO - probably just a tad above the middle based only on W/L estimate, is reasonable, although I find myself near the top damage in those too, and rest assured, I'm not that good)

Seriously, I don't care if I lose, that's not the point here. It's losing in 3 minutes with half you're team literally unable to hit the earth with Saturn. And the other team having at least 9 competent players. The problem is the MM picks one team first, and then tries to match it. The matchmaker should pick 24 similar ELO/ranked/whatever players and then shuffle them.

Edited by Why Run, 16 September 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[WarHippy]

Why Run, on 16 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

My point is clearly these are new players that I have no business playing with. Great, once they learn the game, I'll be happy to play with them. But any matchmaker that still puts me with people who cannot manage 30 points in a game is plain broken. I've been around since the beginning... It's not fun to play with 7 new guys. And I'm sure it's not a lot of fun for them...

If I was just to look at that pic and use it to measure skill and nothing else the only conclusion I could come to is that your entire team sucked including yourself. You have one mech on your team that could be a trial mech as far as I can see as does the other team so blaming it on "new players" seems rather silly. You are just making excuses and blaming what you assume to be new players for performing in a way that was only slightly more terrible than how you performed.