97 replies to this topic

[SethAbercromby]

Tesunie, on 18 September 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Then, the main flagship of my Mechbay, belongs to my Stalker 3F. Even before I placed the TAG in there (yes, it use to not have TAG equiped, I added that later when I managed to be able to fire a third weapon group. Two button mouse here.), it gained an average damage of around 700, a K/D of 27 (has since been knocked down to 5.00 K/D... I died 8 times recently, but have 40 kills. Deaths mostly from glitches... If you wish to believe me).


My point is, you don't need to boat LRMs for them to be effective. Even a few can still be effective weapons.

My only qualm here is that I'm personally not too fond of using LRM15 launchers on a 10 tube mount. The second volley tends to get wasted more often than it increses your damage output, which makes it feel very wasteful in terms of ammunition consumption. My own Stalker 3F shares a lot of the same ideals, but requires a lot more weapon groups (5 to be more specific ). Since the LLs can take over at mid-long range do the LRMs not need as much ammo and I primarily use them to soften up targets indirectly until I get into a direct firing line.

Instead of being a back-line supporter with some short range punch, I try to play it as a shifting range fire supporter that changes its method of attack as the game progresses. LLs and LRMs for long range pokes and for gap-closing - MLs and LLs for mid-range laser bursts at medium range - MLs and SSRMs for short range engagements.

Regarding deaths, Stalkers seem to have become even more unable to climb hills and 2 feet structures recently, which has presented me with a few nasty surprises.

[JigglyMoobs]

7ynx, on 20 September 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

... Standing still will make your mech an easier target, exceptions sometimes for range and cover and stepping back to cover, called hill humping. When hill humping, try to not go back to the same spot too many times or the enemy will pre-aim for your location. Move 20 meters makes the enemies' pre-aimed shot obsolete....

As skillfully^??? put into practice by yours truly

[_____]

Void Angel, on 19 September 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

... really?

"I'm not going to argue about how well it works for you, but you're a liar." A bit of consistency and a dash of courtesy, please.

So it's wrong to be skeptical? You think people don't exaggerate? By the way, you're the one who hates LRMs on an Atlas, so you should be the one skeptical about the original post I responded to. Comical!

[Void Angel]

BlackhawkSC, on 20 September 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

So it's wrong to be skeptical? You think people don't exaggerate? By the way, you're the one who hates LRMs on an Atlas, so you should be the one skeptical about the original post I responded to. Comical!

BlackhawkSC, on 18 September 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

And you give away your or your entire team's position. LRM5 is also too easy to take down with a single AMS. Not going to argue with you about how often it actually works for you, but I suspect you're exaggerating its usefulness for yourself for the purposes of this thread.

That's not "exaggerating," that's self-contradiction: you say you're "not going to argue," then immediately present an argument - and call the guy a liar, to boot. Not to mention the straw man and red herring in your response...

If you're going to argue, argue. But don't call names, misrepresent others' posts, and muddy the waters with nonsensical objections. The only one you're embarrassing here is yourself.

[_____]

Void Angel, on 20 September 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

That's not "exaggerating," that's self-contradiction: you say you're "not going to argue," then immediately present an argument - and call the guy a liar, to boot. Not to mention the straw man and red herring in your response...

If you're going to argue, argue. But don't call names, misrepresent others' posts, and muddy the waters with nonsensical objections. The only one you're embarrassing here is yourself.

Self-contradiction... Coming from the guy who starts a thread about no LRMs on an Atlas and then defends a Dragon brawler build with LRMs.

[Void Angel]

Actually...

• That wasn't what the thread was about - it was a random sidetrack started by people who don't read carefully or well. Hm.
  
• I haven't taken any position; I don't have a dog in this fight. What I have done is to take issue with your name-calling hypocrisy and ad hominem argument.

But hey, that's what ignore is for, I'm afraid.

[Tesunie]

Just wanna play, on 20 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

nah doesn't work, i watched as a guy named nathan kerensky fired at a stationary cat while statinary, you could see literally 2 shots had NO effect, the cts color didnt change at all, nor did it flash

You mean Nathan Bloodguard?

I was in that match. That Catapult with red CT internals, took several volleys of Nathan's lasers, my LRMs and SRMs and a third unit shooting at the target (a Centurion) as well. We could not kill it for some time. It was crazy! (He was observing from Nathan's perspective. I had a farther back view and saw the whole thing unfold with several of us on it.)

BlackhawkSC, on 20 September 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Self-contradiction... Coming from the guy who starts a thread about no LRMs on an Atlas and then defends a Dragon brawler build with LRMs.

Void didn't say "don't play ANY LRMs on an Atlas", he said (if I recall correctly), "Don't LRM BOAT with an Atlas". These are two different concepts...

[Kjudoon]

Also, with the exception of MGs, do not mix Missiles and Ballistics. They compete for space and tonnage too much. Specialize in one and ignore the other.

[Void Angel]

Eh, it depends on your hardpoints - if you're an Atlas, you kinda need both. =)

[Tesunie]

Kjudoon, on 20 September 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Also, with the exception of MGs, do not mix Missiles and Ballistics. They compete for space and tonnage too much. Specialize in one and ignore the other.

Normally... I'd say yes. However, that doesn't mean it can't be pulled off...

Shadowhawk 2H. I have a couple other ones as well... but I don't have their builds on Smurfy yet for easy access. Would I call this "one of my best" mechs? Nope. But it's not bad, especially on Caustic of Therma... (It runs so cool.)

Void Angel, on 20 September 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

Eh, it depends on your hardpoints - if you're an Atlas, you kinda need both. =)

King Crab anyone...?

[terrycloth]

Missiles and ballistics work well together on a 2H. I use 2xASRM6 and an lb10x. It's evil.

[Alaskan Nobody]

First rule of rules: There are exceptions to every rule

Spoiler

Including and excluding that one

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Redshift2k5, on 16 September 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

I almost always do more damage in my 2 ERLL kit fox than in any medium or heavy. Shoot and scoot, stay alive.

But you also spread all the damage over an any mech and thus are very ineffecient and you also undoubtedly dont take many any hits for the team thus the rest of the mechs take a lot more fire. Just because you can do 500+ dmg doesnt mean your effective. Where you apply that damage is key,
For Exp, If i were to alpha someone in the back with my Cn9A I would more than likely kill them. I've only done a maximum of 36 damage but I've killed a mech.

It's not always about how much damage you do but how useful you are to the team.

a PERFECT example is the atlas... Its not about how much damage you do but how you stay alive whilst being at the front leading the charge. An atlas skill is measured on his health % before he dies, not necessarily on the damage he puts out.

[L Y N X]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 21 September 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

But you also spread all the damage over an any mech and thus are very ineffecient and you also undoubtedly dont take many any hits for the team thus the rest of the mechs take a lot more fire. Just because you can do 500+ dmg doesnt mean your effective. Where you apply that damage is key,
For Exp, If i were to alpha someone in the back with my Cn9A I would more than likely kill them. I've only done a maximum of 36 damage but I've killed a mech.

It's not always about how much damage you do but how useful you are to the team.

a PERFECT example is the atlas... Its not about how much damage you do but how you stay alive whilst being at the front leading the charge. An atlas skill is measured on his health % before he dies, not necessarily on the damage he puts out.

Arnold, You seem to have completely missed the point... what you say may or may not be true about redshift... but you missed the point of this thread.

[_____]

Void Angel, on 20 September 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Actually...

• That wasn't what the thread was about - it was a random sidetrack started by people who don't read carefully or well. Hm.
  
• I haven't taken any position; I don't have a dog in this fight. What I have done is to take issue with your name-calling hypocrisy and ad hominem argument.

But hey, that's what ignore is for, I'm afraid.

So basically what I wrote below offended you so much that you decided to reply several times in a thread that you don't care about.

Quote

And you give away your or your entire team's position. LRM5 is also too easy to take down with a single AMS. Not going to argue with you about how often it actually works for you, but I suspect you're exaggerating its usefulness for yourself for the purposes of this thread.

Sensitive aren't you?

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 23 September 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Tesunie]

BlackhawkSC, on 23 September 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

So basically what I wrote below offended you so much that you decided to reply several times in a thread that you don't care about.


Sensitive aren't you?

Thing is, he wasn't alone in his statement. Though you presented a good point, the way you went about mentioning it was rather demeaning and borderline insulting to the one you were responding to. You made it sound as though it could never work and it was nothing but a detriment to even try.

I believe my response to your statement was a list of actual builds I use in my matches all the time, and they work. Some have only 10 LRM tubes total. Others have 15 or more. They are very effective for me. Maybe not for you. Difference is, you don't have to be condescending to people who disagree with you.

If you wish for me to prove the effectiveness of my builds, I have no problem showing that I'm not "exaggerating its usefulness for yourself for the purposes of this thread" by posting up my stats with said mechs (thought admittedly, not all of them were always in that build as far as the stats are concerned). However, most of them have decent damage per match scores, and reasonable damage per match per ton scores as well. Now, I'm also not saying it's "the most effective thing you can do" either, but for our play styles, it works for us.

[Carlos Vinson]

Tanar, on 16 September 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

it depends too on the type of weapons. say on a hunchy 4sp someone with 2 LRM launchers and 4 ML

Been using that and I love it. If only it had JJ....perfect.

[_____]

Tesunie, on 23 September 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Thing is, he wasn't alone in his statement. Though you presented a good point, the way you went about mentioning it was rather demeaning and borderline insulting to the one you were responding to. You made it sound as though it could never work and it was nothing but a detriment to even try.

I believe my response to your statement was a list of actual builds I use in my matches all the time, and they work. Some have only 10 LRM tubes total. Others have 15 or more. They are very effective for me. Maybe not for you. Difference is, you don't have to be condescending to people who disagree with you.

If you wish for me to prove the effectiveness of my builds, I have no problem showing that I'm not "exaggerating its usefulness for yourself for the purposes of this thread" by posting up my stats with said mechs (thought admittedly, not all of them were always in that build as far as the stats are concerned). However, most of them have decent damage per match scores, and reasonable damage per match per ton scores as well. Now, I'm also not saying it's "the most effective thing you can do" either, but for our play styles, it works for us.

Did I ever respond to your posts? No. My replies are for OP and if somehow I touched his or someone else's nerve, I'm afraid I really can't help you there. My posts are meant for constructive feedback, if you don't like the way it's written, you're welcomed to ignore it.

[DONTOR]

Well done! Adapt and overcome!

[salkeee]

@7nyx
quoted [color=#959595] I was doing something for the first 7-10 minutes of the match besides standing under cover waiting for the enemy to close, or charging the enemy in a rambo attempt at a glorious fiery death.[/color]

Now from my experience in 80% cases ppl that hide for 7 minutes and waiting for enemy to get close usualy get roled hard becouze chargers"u call tham rambo" are advancing and dealing dmg in proces and conquer biger part of map,while ppl that waited to something hapen are looking to find another cover not all of tham but half of tham and that leaves other half of team unable to defend properly.Ofc within that proces U will poke something and do some dmg ofc U will but that wont take U many wins.
But than u are pugin with builds/playstyle like that arent U?What U do is basicaly hoping that ppl that are actualy tryin to do something more than shoot 1 lrm5 U are hoping that they will get uperhand upon enemy and if those ppl done decent now afther 10 minutes U have a chance to pick up remaining kills.No U are not teamplayer if that is case.

I dont mind ur builds but no mather what weapons U have it is never bad thing to charge and folow ones that do it even if it is within 1st few seconds in match its only important that charge isnt 1 by 1.

Now that 1 LRM5 may be awesome but really not if U are hiding just to shoot that tiny wep its best used along with other weapons.U must use that situation whre enemy is backing up to cover afther U shoot LRMs ofc U need longer range.
But than U can only scare unexperinced ppl with that,still usefull in pugs.