268 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

I remember Russ saying at the beginning that they wanted to avoid the mistakes of other Mech games in that each weight class would have pros and cons; there should never be one mech that excels at everything. If that is still a core value for this game then the Timberwolf needs some serious nerfs.

It's fast with a max speed of 89.1 kph, has 460 armor (which is more than the gargoyle), and is easily built with good firepower, max dps and efficient heat dissipation.


Compare the Atlas to the Timberwolf with similar builds.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a1292ce4681505

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8d9723320400800



Bear in mind one is an assault and one is a heavy mech. Due to the superiority of clan tech the Timberwolf is a much better all around package with better survivability due to its increased speed and range. It can also get away with using a close up high damage build because it can move in to strike with a flank attack and fade away. The pace of the game has changed and now with more players per team speed is a huge issue. Faster speeds let you avoid more damage and pick more advantageous fights.

You could use something slightly trollish like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...201b67e11af165e

A build like that has high dps with insane heat efficiency and can actually get away with using close range weapons due to its speed. A mech like the Timberwolf that seems to do everything well really starts to break the game at its core. Why play a medium when you can be 10 kph slower with 40% more armor and lots more weapons (and enough heat sinks to actually keep firing them)? I think it's about time we re-visit the maximum engine size for IS medium mechs. The reason you nerfed them in the first place was because people were making them go about as fast as stock lights (with little firepower but lots of avoidance). Guess what mech is doing the same role-breaking at a higher weight class?



Overall it is a symptom of a serious problem when a 75 ton heavy mech performs about as well as a 100 ton assault mech. I think we need to re-consider the double heat sink issue for IS mechs. Everyone wanted 2.0 heat sinks and it is never going to happen; you gave us 1.4 at that was fine until clan mechs came out. I think it's about time we change IS double heat sinks to 1.7 and see where that gets us. Every clan mech has a DHS advantage due to its larger engine and the only way you're going to close the win/loss gap is with some love to the IS mechs. Let me clarify that I'm asking for nerfs to the Timberwolf by proxy as it should stay the same and its enemies should be buffed (which is a nerf from its point of view). The only changes it might need are some hitbox changes. This probably needs to happen to the stormcrow and nova as well.


If I'm wrong and the TW isn't broken then please by all means show me an IS heavy mech build that even remotely comes close in terms of speed/survivability/damage/heat dissipation. You will never make an IS heavy mech that has close to 60 firepower with 90 kph speeds and has good heat dissipation while still having max armor. No IS heavy mech will ever touch the TW because IS mechs don't get 5x double heat sinks in the engine (much less XL 375s) and they don't have 12 possible weapon slots. You know quite honestly we might just need to classify the Timberwolf as an assault mech. That's about the only quirk that's going to put it in line. Note that suddenly the Summoner has a reason to exist if this happens.

If you took the head/center torso/left arm of a CTF-4X and welded that to the remains of an Ilya Muromets you might have something resembling a close match. We'll call this new mech "Magic" because that is what it would take to beat the Timberwolf.

Components:
5 Medium lasers (6.25 damage per second/5 heat per second)
1 SRM 6 (3.23 dps/1 hps)
2 UAC 5 (6.02 dps/1.2 hps)
2 Machine guns (1.6 dps/0 hps)

340 XL engine (because it needs to be about 90 kph)+ 3 DHS

2 tons UAC 5 ammo
1/2 ton MG ammo
1/2 ton SRM ammo


Just for fun let's mount all that on a direwolf (we can't use 18.5 heat sinks so let's use 19). So our Frankenstein would run at 86.6 kph and have something resembling 57 firepower with 34% heat effeciency.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3bfbebf11cae734

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

All I can say is yes, T-Wolf does need some mobility and hit-box nerfs/fixes, and they are choking the Heavy queue.
Takes forever to play my Cats when the Heavy queue is 45%. Searching for matches...........................................

Edited by El Bandito, 19 September 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Moonlander]

I recently posted something about this. I 1v1'd a Timberwolf not long ago. Only mech I came into contact with and I had no damage taken from any other sources. Just him an I in this particular location. Needless to say, I was destroyed. My damage done however, was 542... all to him mind you...

Something is definitely wrong with that picture. I should mention, I was in my DDC.

Edited by Moonlander, 19 September 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[Kain Demos]

75-80 ton mechs will just about always be some of the best because of where they fall in the weight category.

I think the nerfs to the Victor were lame and need to be rolled back. Serious mobility nerfs like that should just flat out never happen again.

Edited by Kain Thul, 19 September 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

The CT hitbox definitely seems borked.

[Kiiyor]

I have trouble hitting them when they're feathering JJ's. Maybe I'm imagining things.

I'm not sure how they can be nerfed, aside from mobility. I vote that we buff some IS mechs, because the IS is sorely missing some of it's own competition for the MadCat (*cough*VICTOR*cough)

[Blood Rose]

Or we could you know.... not keep trolling the forums calling for PGI to nerf something just because we are bad pilots. 542 damage may seem like a lot but if your just spraying and praying then it wont do jack ****. Leave the Timberwolf be and learn to play or come C-Bill release there wont any Timberwolf, just a puppy. And before you go on at me about what I am saying I went 1V1 with a Timberwolf last night in my Vindicator. And won.

[Thorn Hallis]

Why not buff the other 'Mechs?

[Moonlander]

I've had plenty of times where I've had 0 issues with them as well. No one is trolling... unless you consider what you're doing trolling... because let's face it, your post would fit into the category more than mine would. Secondly, I don't care about whether it's nerfed or not... I can easily 2-3v1 any other time during a brawl and have no issues. It was an isolated incident and I was sharing my opinion.

Edited by Moonlander, 19 September 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[Dark DeLaurel]

As said earlier the 75 - 80 ton range is actually the sweet spot for `Mechs.

Anecdotal like the rest of the "my stories" first thing to go my Timber Wolf is always the right torso and arm, usually followed by the left arm or torso. So I would say it is the ELO bracket you are fighting in causing some of the problems, the folks i have been fighting against know and do shoot my arms off which leaves the `Mech useless.

[Blood Rose]

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

Why not buff the other 'Mechs?

Finally, a sensible suggestion.

[Kmieciu]

Moonlander, on 19 September 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

I recently posted something about this. I 1v1'd a Timberwolf not long ago. Only mech I came into contact with and I had no damage taken from any other sources. Just him an I in this particular location. Needless to say, I was destroyed. My damage done however, was 542... all to him mind you...

Something is definitely wrong with that picture. I should mention, I was in my DDC.

You shoot him at his destroyed side torso, your effective damage gets halved. You hit his arm stump, it is divided by 4. That's why clan XL are so great. If they destroy your ST, you get a free shield that soaks 50%-75% damage. When fighting 1vs1 you should always go for the legs.

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

Why not buff the other 'Mechs?

If every other mech was buffed to TW level matches would be over in 2-3 minutes. Is that what are you asking for?

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 September 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

TBR-PRIME

AS7-D-DC

These are similar builds only difference is 6 in the alpha, armor, and heat.

[STEF_]

The only thing that makes Timber a god is its hitboxes.
So, timber pilots can put 2 armor back CT, and ALL armor front CT.
Moreover timber JJ "cover" them too much, imo.

[Moonlander]

My alpha is the same as that DDC, just a few other changes. Mostly, my faster engine and an ac20 instead. Better for how I play anyway. I think people would clearly choose a Timberwolf if given the option. However, I still love my Atlas so... meh

Again, if it gets buffed or nerfed is the furthest of my concern. Probably is a better option to buff other mechs.

Edited by Moonlander, 19 September 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[aniviron]

At this point, I don't think most of the clan mechs are OP. The Kitfox is... alright. The Nova is subpar. The Summoner is flat out bad. The Direwolf is good. The Adder is a joke. The Stormcrow is good. The Timberwolf is great. The Warhawk is underwhelming.

I'd like to see the Timberwolf, Stormcrow, and Dire Wolf get looked at before more blanket nerfs happen. Most of the rest of the clan mechs are pretty decently balanced with IS mechs at this point.

The Timberwolf and Stormcrow are the only non-lights with both Ferro and Endo, and neither has any hard mounted equipment. This gives them a huge advantage over all the other clan mechs, which either need the tonnage from Ferro/Endo but don't have it, or have tonnage and crits tied up in heatsinks, jumpjets, or flamers that they don't want. That means the TBR/SCR carry more weapons, run cooler, and get more armor. The one exception is the Dire Wolf, which is so heavy it'd rather have the free crits than weight savings from Ferro/Endo.

Dark DeLaurel, on 19 September 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

As said earlier the 75 - 80 ton range is actually the sweet spot for `Mechs.

The Orion and Awesome would like a word with you.

[El Bandito]

Thorn Hallis, on 19 September 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

Why not buff the other 'Mechs?

Good luck trying to buff Summoner to T-Wolf level.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

All I can say is yes, T-Wolf does need some mobility and hit-box nerfs/fixes, and they are choking the Heavy queue.
Takes forever to play my Cats when the Heavy queue is 45%. Searching for matches...........................................

Imagine what will happen with C-bill Timber and Hellbringer released....

[Thorn Hallis]

Kmieciu, on 19 September 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

If every other mech was buffed to TW level matches would be over in 2-3 minutes.

How so?

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

Good luck trying to buff Summoner to T-Wolf level.

As it weighs 5 tons less the Summoner can never be equal. But adding more weapon slots would be a good start to make it as versatile as the T-Wolf.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 19 September 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[Iron Riding Cowboy]

Its been hinted the victor is getting unnerfed so now why are you crying for a TW nerf ?

http://mwomercs.com/...ctor-quirk-set/

Edited by Iron Riding Cowboy, 19 September 2014 - 01:09 AM.