76 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Russ' Match Quality poll has me wrestling with my own demons a bit, and looking for solutions that would let me vote “Yes” to what is obviously a necessary measure. I can't quite do it yet, though.

Spoiler

See, a while ago, when the group queue first went online, my brother and I dropped into it one night. My brother's in the Army, and for a while MWO was a great way of killing time and keeping in touch with him, something we could do together that we've been doing since we were kids. It was a good time; I bought him a Clan Mak Pak so we could have fun tearing the Inner Sphere a new one together.

And yet we don't do that anymore, partially because the Army is being a pain, and partially because of one truly, exquisitely horrible game we played that managed to exemplify the problems with the group queue and Skirmish mode both at the same time. To put it shortly: the map was HPG, normally one of my favorites, save that this time the enemy team managed to get one early kill within the first couple of minutes of the match (which happened to be my brother, scouting beneath the HPG in his Kit Fox and unable to escape in time as the entire enemy team rolled up under there), before posting up beneath the HPG and slinging insults and bullshit my team's way, trying to goad us into charging into their teeth. I try to organize a concerted camp-breaking effort on my own team's part – and spend the next thirteen minutes being further insulted, belittled, and lambasted by my own team, told to “JUST GO F***ING SUICIDE ALREADY IF YOU'RE SO P*SSED, YOU C***” and “Yes, I WOULD rather sit here for ten more minutes than give those bassholes the satisfaction of killing me. Now shut up already, dumbass.”

Normally, I can shrug off MWO's bullscheiss without much issue. It is what it is, people are people, and their p*ssy moany whining doesn't typically bother me much. But this game...on the receiving end of twenty-two players' ire and scorn for thirteen straight minutes, while my brother sat there staring at the spectator's screen watching his own team pull a ten-man fit of “I dun' wanna play MWO with you anymore!” when we were supposed to be enjoying an all-too-infrequent night of gaming together...

Well, that was the night I finally had to disable Skirmish in my drop queue. It wasn't the first terrible Skirmish game I've had, but it was by far the worst, and it was the last goddamned straw.

There are a lot of players who cannot tolerate either Skirmish or Conquest without some manner of release valve, which I propose we try and come up with. It's been suggested several times that there should be some manner of Surrender or Withdraw option for MWO, a means by which a player can jettison themselves from a match which has grown actively painful for them to continue. There's been arguments against it, mostly in the form of “This would be too easy to abuse” and “This already exists – just go Esc. > Quit.”

Here's the thing – I don't care. I want to devote this thread to discussion of ideas for implementing a Withdraw mechanic into MWO, so that players such as myself who can't in good conscience vote “Yes” to Russ' match quality proposal can do so because we'll have the release valve we need. This isn't a “L2P, NUB” thread, or an “I'll play till the timer's bitter end and F*** YOU if you think I'll suicide into the enemy for your sake” thread. This is a thread for rationally and civilly discussing how we might implement a Withdraw option in MWO for those players who would very much appreciate that option.

So.

I think that starting with two simple rules for a Withdraw function would handle ninety percent of abuse cases, with further tweaks down the road as needed. Will there be times when the Withdraw function is abused anyways? Probably – but they'll be no more frequent than the times when players abuse Conquest or Skirmish to make games into nightmares for their fellow players, methinks.

First of all, it strikes me as being the obvious case that a player who withdraws from the match is conceding it, and as such a Withdraw counts as a loss for that player, regardless of the actual outcome of that match. The player still gains any rewards they earned through the rest of the game, assists and spots and such, but no victory credit even if by a miracle of awesomeness their team pulls it out without them. This should hopefully keep Withdraws from happening in close games that look like they could go either way, keeping players invested in Good Fights – which Russ says would happen with much greater frequency with a vote-based matchmaker anyways – until those fights are finished properly.

Second of all, the Withdraw option should only activate after eight minutes have elapsed within the game. If the enemy team can just utterly pwnooblerate your squad and walk over you 12-2 in the first four minutes of a match, they deserve their kills. The entire notion of a Withdraw function irritates the victorious side in one of these foregone-conclusion matches, as it means the defeated players get to escape with their hides intact instead of falling to their enemy's guns. Everybody wants kills, everybody wants to fight, and nobody likes seeing someone turn around and withdraw except the guy doing the withdrawing. As such, I propose that each match be given eight minutes in which to try and do just that – if you can find him before those eight minutes are up, then feel free to take him.

What these two rules combined do is permit nearly half the match timer to be lopped off for players who find themselves on the bad end of the sort of Skirmish game that ruined Skirmish for me, as well as giving that last player in a match who wants to spend fifteen minutes harassing enemies in his Jenner and seeing if he can Go The Distance (or his increasingly frustrated dead teammates) an option for an honorable withdrawal if life intervenes or if their patience runs dry. Seven less minutes of bullscheiss is a goal to shoot for, at least as a starting point of discussion.

What about you folks? What would you like to see in a Withdraw option for MWO, how would you implement it to try and be fair to both sides in a match and limit abuse?

Edited by 1453 R, 22 September 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

1453 R, on 22 September 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Russ' Match Quality poll has me wrestling with my own demons a bit, and looking for solutions that would let me vote “Yes” to what is obviously a necessary measure. I can't quite do it yet, though.

Spoiler

See, a while ago, when the group queue first went online, my brother and I dropped into it one night. My brother's in the Army, and for a while MWO was a great way of killing time and keeping in touch with him, something we could do together that we've been doing since we were kids. It was a good time; I bought him a Clan Mak Pak so we could have fun tearing the Inner Sphere a new one together.

And yet we don't do that anymore, partially because the Army is being a pain, and partially because of one truly, exquisitely horrible game we played that managed to exemplify the problems with the group queue and Skirmish mode both at the same time. To put it shortly: the map was HPG, normally one of my favorites, save that this time the enemy team managed to get one early kill within the first couple of minutes of the match (which happened to be my brother, scouting beneath the HPG in his Kit Fox and unable to escape in time as the entire enemy team rolled up under there), before posting up beneath the HPG and slinging insults and bullshit my team's way, trying to goad us into charging into their teeth. I try to organize a concerted camp-breaking effort on my own team's part – and spend the next thirteen minutes being further insulted, belittled, and lambasted by my own team, told to “JUST GO F***ING SUICIDE ALREADY IF YOU'RE SO P*SSED, YOU C***” and “Yes, I WOULD rather sit here for ten more minutes than give those bassholes the satisfaction of killing me. Now shut up already, dumbass.”

Normally, I can shrug off MWO's bullscheiss without much issue. It is what it is, people are people, and their p*ssy moany whining doesn't typically bother me much. But this game...on the receiving end of twenty-two players' ire and scorn for thirteen straight minutes, while my brother sat there staring at the spectator's screen watching his own team pull a ten-man fit of “I dun' wanna play MWO with you anymore!” when we were supposed to be enjoying an all-too-infrequent night of gaming together...

Well, that was the night I finally had to disable Skirmish in my drop queue. It wasn't the first terrible Skirmish game I've had, but it was by far the worst, and it was the last goddamned straw.

There are a lot of players who cannot tolerate either Skirmish or Conquest without some manner of release valve, which I propose we try and come up with. It's been suggested several times that there should be some manner of Surrender or Withdraw option for MWO, a means by which a player can jettison themselves from a match which has grown actively painful for them to continue. There's been arguments against it, mostly in the form of “This would be too easy to abuse” and “This already exists – just go Esc. > Quit.”

Here's the thing – I don't care. I want to devote this thread to discussion of ideas for implementing a Withdraw mechanic into MWO, so that players such as myself who can't in good conscience vote “Yes” to Russ' match quality proposal can do so because we'll have the release valve we need. This isn't a “L2P, NUB” thread, or an “I'll play till the timer's bitter end and F*** YOU if you think I'll suicide into the enemy for your sake” thread. This is a thread for rationally and civilly discussing how we might implement a Withdraw option in MWO for those players who would very much appreciate that option.

So.

I think that starting with two simple rules for a Withdraw function would handle ninety percent of abuse cases, with further tweaks down the road as needed. Will there be times when the Withdraw function is abused anyways? Probably – but they'll be no more frequent than the times when players abuse Conquest or Skirmish to make games into nightmares for their fellow players, methinks.

First of all, it strikes me as being the obvious case that a player who withdraws from the match is conceding it, and as such a Withdraw counts as a loss for that player, regardless of the actual outcome of that match. The player still gains any rewards they earned through the rest of the game, assists and spots and such, but no victory credit even if by a miracle of awesomeness their team pulls it out without them. This should hopefully keep Withdraws from happening in close games that look like they could go either way, keeping players invested in Good Fights – which Russ says would happen with much greater frequency with a vote-based matchmaker anyways – until those fights are finished properly.

Second of all, the Withdraw option should only activate after eight minutes have elapsed within the game. If the enemy team can just utterly pwnooblerate your squad and walk over you 12-2 in the first four minutes of a match, they deserve their kills. The entire notion of a Withdraw function irritates the victorious side in one of these foregone-conclusion matches, as it means the defeated players get to escape with their hides intact instead of falling to their enemy's guns. Everybody wants kills, everybody wants to fight, and nobody likes seeing someone turn around and withdraw except the guy doing the withdrawing. As such, I propose that each match be given eight minutes in which to try and do just that – if you can find him before those eight minutes are up, then feel free to take him.

What these two rules combined do is permit nearly half the match timer to be lopped off for players who find themselves on the bad end of the sort of Skirmish game that ruined Skirmish for me, as well as giving that last player in a match who wants to spend fifteen minutes harassing enemies in his Jenner and seeing if he can Go The Distance (or his increasingly frustrated dead teammates) an option for an honorable withdrawal if life intervenes or if their patience runs dry. Seven less minutes of bullscheiss is a goal to shoot for, at least as a starting point of discussion.

What about you folks? What would you like to see in a Withdraw option for MWO, how would you implement it to try and be fair to both sides in a match and limit abuse?

I feel your pain. I do really. But Withdrawal in CBT is a Mech Death Sentence except when it is part of the scenario rules.

Exiting the map Intentionally or not Destroys the exiting Mech.

The Exceptions:
Units having a Flanking Special Perk, or the Scenario calls for allowing any Mech on Team A (and sometimes B ) to retreat under "X" conditions, usually 75% casualties, or 50% personal damage. NOTE: You are NOT guaranteed safe passage in either case.

So Retreat should be an option, but it should not be a "Exit the game Free" option.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 September 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[1453 R]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 September 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

I feel your pain. I do really. But Withdrawal in CBT is a Mech Death Sentence except when it is part of the scenario rules.

Exiting the map Intentionally or not Destroys the exiting Mech.

The Exceptions:
Units having a Flanking Special Perk, or the Scenario calls for allowing any Mech on Team A (and sometimes to retreat under "X" conditions, usually 75% casualties, or 50% personal damage. NOTE: You are NOT guaranteed safe passage in either case.

So Retreat should be an option, but it should not be a "Exit the game Free" option.

Which is cool for TT BattleTech, which is a recreation of wartime rules involving battles stretching across entire campaigns where conservation of resources, or denying the enemy's attempt to do the same, is key.

I just feel like this is one of those areas where MWO should think about breaking from TT implementation for the sake of player sanity. I really shouldn't be forced to feed myself to a bunch of gloating jackholes so I can Esc. > Quit without losing every single point of experience or every last C-bill I've earned in that match to date. Frankly, if an enemy team is doing something that causes, 6+ players on the losing side to withdraw instead of fight it out, then I feel like that's a thing that should happen, and those sorts of games should be discouraged.

[Reno Blade]

My biggest issue with such an option would be a chain reaction/snowball effect.

You already see the following:
2 disconnect at the start -> someone typing "we lost already, I'm out" and he disconnects too.

If you could eject/retreat/withdraw, then you would see people doing it even more so than DC already.
And it's not really a difference to DCing, is it?

[NeoCodex]

Not to even mention that this would be a waste of development time and resources, I fail to see the appeal in this. Just quit the game by regular means. Quitting is being rewarded enough allready, it should not be further encouraged by adding additional means and methods of getting out. Yes, it's inconvinient your mech is locked out for the duration, but just get the second one ready to launch while you're waiting (and just buy the extra modules, it really saves the hassle and time switching them every time).

Deserters should not be tolerated, and this kind of additional mechanic (and also confusing, like how will you explain the difference between withdraw and quit to a new player?) only promotes it as it's ok to abandond your team if it's going bad. We should not be putting the blame on the team every time, but everybody should take additional responsibility for themselves instead. By putting additional methods for retreating in the game and touching this taboo subject like it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, it would badly reflect on the overall player and team spirit.

Edited by NeoCodex, 22 September 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

1453 R, on 22 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Which is cool for TT BattleTech, which is a recreation of wartime rules involving battles stretching across entire campaigns where conservation of resources, or denying the enemy's attempt to do the same, is key.

I just feel like this is one of those areas where MWO should think about breaking from TT implementation for the sake of player sanity. I really shouldn't be forced to feed myself to a bunch of gloating jackholes so I can Esc. > Quit without losing every single point of experience or every last C-bill I've earned in that match to date. Frankly, if an enemy team is doing something that causes, 6+ players on the losing side to withdraw instead of fight it out, then I feel like that's a thing that should happen, and those sorts of games should be discouraged.

Quitting a Match only stops you from gaining any Cash/XP after the Disconnect as far as I remember. What you did prior, is yours to keep.

NeoCodex, on 22 September 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

Not to even mention that this would be a waste of development time and resources, I fail to see the appeal in this. Just quit the game by regular means. Quitting is being rewarded enough allready, it should not be further encouraged by adding additional means and methods of getting out. Yes it's inconvinient your mech is locked out for the duration, but just get the second one ready to launch while you're waiting (and just buy the extra modules, it really saves the hassle and time switching them every time).

Deserters should not be tolerated, and this kind of additional mechanic (and also confusing, like how will you explain the difference between withdraw and quit to a new player?) only promotes it as it's ok to abandond your team if it's going bad. We should not be putting the blame on the team every time, but everybody should take additional responsibility for themselves instead.

Surrender can allow players to End a Match that is a forgone conclusion. There is no dishonor in showing good discretion. Its better to tap out than let your opponent break your arm/leg.

[1453 R]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 September 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

Quitting a Match only stops you from gaining any Cash/XP after the Disconnect as far as I remember. What you did prior, is yours to keep.

Hmm. My understanding was that this only applied to 'Mechs that quit after being destroyed. Players who Esc. > Quit prior to being destroyed get nothing, and also get their 'Mech locked down, and the 'Mech itself is destroyed in-game.

To answer both Reno and Codex as well: that's the victors talking. If you want to force me to play to the bitter end of every single match I drop in without any control of what type of matches those matches are, then you had best swear to me on your honor that you won't abuse Skirmish or Conquest game modes in order to create the sort of hyper-toxic bad experience that made players disable those game modes in the first place. I get that you would like to personally grind the hearts of every enemy you encounter under your steel-shod heels, but sometimes a game really is so awful that getting out of it's the only real option left.

The fact that you want to punish players who wish to avoid putting up with fifteen minutes' worth of completely awful match should really speak for itself, I suppose. Now, pleased as to stay reasonably on topic and discuss the feasibility and control measures required for such an option. I'm willing to debate the need for such an option but ask that players be respectful when they do so, as there are folks out there who've been asking for this, with good reason, for quite some time.

[NeoCodex]

I am not saying anyone should stay in the match until the bitter end, for all I care once you are destroyed there is nothing keeping you in the game, unless you are really interested to see how the game will turn out (or possibly, sometimes, give advice and direction and even help the outcome of the match e.g., don't go for the base cap suggestion which I very often see players like to do going for a cap with 3 crippled mechs at 9:11, which is suicidal).

Unless you're saying that the game can be so bad that you don't want to be destroyed and your team is getting pounded hard..? How is it that you're still alive than? I think I'm not understanding this perfectly. I rarely had an issue like that, if it was going bad I was always giving my best to fight back, never run from the fight in a fast mech or shutdown like a coward, but take as many with me as I can... Possibly show to the rest that are still watching how to do it "properly" and at least die with honor.

Edited by NeoCodex, 22 September 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You may be right. I Haven't quit like that since my first month playing in CB. The furthest I go now is, I will power down when the "Inevitable" is coming.

And the hyper toxic bad experience in my day was called "Smack Talk" or "Psychological Warfare" Now Your own team doing that to you is just plain bad sports. But I EXPECT my opponent to try to taunt me into a misstep. Its all part of the game to me. I even grade the level of taunt being used. Most is quite amateur and not worth more than a head shake on my end.

[NeoCodex]

Oh Joseph, you coward. I hate when people do that. A Steiner should know better!

Edited by NeoCodex, 22 September 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

NeoCodex, on 22 September 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

Oh Joseph, you coward. I hate when people do that. A Steiner should know better!

Thankfully I am a Lyran and not a foolhardy Royal Steiner!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 September 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[1453 R]

Neo: If you want to know what sort of experience I'm talking about? I put the prime example of it in spoiler tags in the original post. A regular match where my team is simply getting ordinary-day-in-MWO rolled? Whatevs, stuff happens, no big deal.

Joseph Mallan, on 22 September 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

You may be right. I Haven't quit like that since my first month playing in CB. The furthest I go now is, I will power down when the "Inevitable" is coming.

And the hyper toxic bad experience in my day was called "Smack Talk" or "Psychological Warfare" Now Your own team doing that to you is just plain bad sports. But I EXPECT my opponent to try to taunt me into a misstep. Its all part of the game to me. I even grade the level of taunt being used. Most is quite amateur and not worth more than a head shake on my end.

Yeah, normally I don't give a snot about smack. Smack happens too, and I've given as good as I've gotten in some cases. Usually with my gauss rifle instead of via chat, but hey - actions speak louder than words I suppose I may be overreacting over that one horrific match, except that Skirmish has never been good to me in all the time I had it active. Not once did the removal of the Assault mode bases improve my gameplay experience. Prior to that one match on HPG I left it enabled anyways for all the reasons Russ laid out in his Match Quality poll, but damn, man. How many times does a given game mode get to bend me over its knee and reach for the hairbrush before I'm allowed to call the abused-wives hotline, eh?

if Russ, and the playerbase, want to switch matchmaking around to be based on votes more than hard stops, maybe get map weighting in there, and all that other fun stuff, then I say this is the perfect time to address the concerns of those players who've been looking for a way to exit gracefully from a terrible game without being punished, or even reported to the GMs, for doing so. Yes, I've seen people report mid-game DCs, or at least claim to in chat. It's crap and I hope Piranha ignores such reports as life can happen any time, but still.

[Thunder Child]

What irritates me is the ones that intentionally Power Down to HIDE. I'm all for strategic shutdowns for an ambush or something, but if it's 11-3, just go out guns blazing, or at the VERY LEAST, DO SOMETHING. I won't name the Coward involved, even though he proceeded to attempt a Teamkill the following match on someone who called him out (he failed, and I feel sorry for the guy that defended himself because now HE'LL get hit with a Banhammer, instead of the loser who deserves it). But the point is, in standard matches what we need is less reason for people to chicken out.

Btw, I'm fine for a withdrawal Mechanic in CW, if we ever end up with real missions and R&R. But in this game, the last thing we need is another way for people to hide.

[Eboli]

I really don't feel comfortable with having a button to retire from a game even if it for good intentions. I can just see that it could be abused which ends up disadvantaging more people in the match than the one person whom doesn't' want to be there anymore. This type of option can be a game changer for those that remain.

We do have a run out of bounds option for this purpose. If such a button is made available I still think it would be fair to expect the mech to be locked out until the game finishes and rewards are limited.

Maybe a possibility is to have a timer where you have to wait a designated time to count down before you are able to successfully withdraw from combat. During that time you can still be hunted down and destroyed.

The only time I have chosen to go out of bounds is when in my Oxide I have no more srms and I am the last friendly mech left on the field.

Cheers
Eboli.

Edited by Eboli, 22 September 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[OznerpaG]

the best way to implement something like this w/o incurring abuse of the system is to allow withdrawal when you are outnumbered 4-1 or 5-1 in a game. if your team just got stomped 10-1 or 11-1 and you'r the last mech left, then the match is over. if you want to fight it out to the end, fine - but if you don't want to fight then withdraw should be an option so everyone can get on with their lives and start another game

[Sadist Cain]

No way in hell, I've had matches before where 3 of us took on 7. Things like that don't happen with a run away button forcing other people to stop their games because some idiots died or get upset that they're outmatched.

There's this feature in NS2 and its horrible, people surrendering all because they didn't get a position they wanted.

All this will result in is people quitting because they haven't taken the hill in alpine and all that jazz

[Gyrok]

1453 R, on 22 September 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Russ' Match Quality poll has me wrestling with my own demons a bit, and looking for solutions that would let me vote “Yes” to what is obviously a necessary measure. I can't quite do it yet, though.

Spoiler

See, a while ago, when the group queue first went online, my brother and I dropped into it one night. My brother's in the Army, and for a while MWO was a great way of killing time and keeping in touch with him, something we could do together that we've been doing since we were kids. It was a good time; I bought him a Clan Mak Pak so we could have fun tearing the Inner Sphere a new one together.

And yet we don't do that anymore, partially because the Army is being a pain, and partially because of one truly, exquisitely horrible game we played that managed to exemplify the problems with the group queue and Skirmish mode both at the same time. To put it shortly: the map was HPG, normally one of my favorites, save that this time the enemy team managed to get one early kill within the first couple of minutes of the match (which happened to be my brother, scouting beneath the HPG in his Kit Fox and unable to escape in time as the entire enemy team rolled up under there), before posting up beneath the HPG and slinging insults and bullshit my team's way, trying to goad us into charging into their teeth. I try to organize a concerted camp-breaking effort on my own team's part – and spend the next thirteen minutes being further insulted, belittled, and lambasted by my own team, told to “JUST GO F***ING SUICIDE ALREADY IF YOU'RE SO P*SSED, YOU C***” and “Yes, I WOULD rather sit here for ten more minutes than give those bassholes the satisfaction of killing me. Now shut up already, dumbass.”

Normally, I can shrug off MWO's bullscheiss without much issue. It is what it is, people are people, and their p*ssy moany whining doesn't typically bother me much. But this game...on the receiving end of twenty-two players' ire and scorn for thirteen straight minutes, while my brother sat there staring at the spectator's screen watching his own team pull a ten-man fit of “I dun' wanna play MWO with you anymore!” when we were supposed to be enjoying an all-too-infrequent night of gaming together...

Well, that was the night I finally had to disable Skirmish in my drop queue. It wasn't the first terrible Skirmish game I've had, but it was by far the worst, and it was the last goddamned straw.

There are a lot of players who cannot tolerate either Skirmish or Conquest without some manner of release valve, which I propose we try and come up with. It's been suggested several times that there should be some manner of Surrender or Withdraw option for MWO, a means by which a player can jettison themselves from a match which has grown actively painful for them to continue. There's been arguments against it, mostly in the form of “This would be too easy to abuse” and “This already exists – just go Esc. > Quit.”

Here's the thing – I don't care. I want to devote this thread to discussion of ideas for implementing a Withdraw mechanic into MWO, so that players such as myself who can't in good conscience vote “Yes” to Russ' match quality proposal can do so because we'll have the release valve we need. This isn't a “L2P, NUB” thread, or an “I'll play till the timer's bitter end and F*** YOU if you think I'll suicide into the enemy for your sake” thread. This is a thread for rationally and civilly discussing how we might implement a Withdraw option in MWO for those players who would very much appreciate that option.

So.

I think that starting with two simple rules for a Withdraw function would handle ninety percent of abuse cases, with further tweaks down the road as needed. Will there be times when the Withdraw function is abused anyways? Probably – but they'll be no more frequent than the times when players abuse Conquest or Skirmish to make games into nightmares for their fellow players, methinks.

First of all, it strikes me as being the obvious case that a player who withdraws from the match is conceding it, and as such a Withdraw counts as a loss for that player, regardless of the actual outcome of that match. The player still gains any rewards they earned through the rest of the game, assists and spots and such, but no victory credit even if by a miracle of awesomeness their team pulls it out without them. This should hopefully keep Withdraws from happening in close games that look like they could go either way, keeping players invested in Good Fights – which Russ says would happen with much greater frequency with a vote-based matchmaker anyways – until those fights are finished properly.

Second of all, the Withdraw option should only activate after eight minutes have elapsed within the game. If the enemy team can just utterly pwnooblerate your squad and walk over you 12-2 in the first four minutes of a match, they deserve their kills. The entire notion of a Withdraw function irritates the victorious side in one of these foregone-conclusion matches, as it means the defeated players get to escape with their hides intact instead of falling to their enemy's guns. Everybody wants kills, everybody wants to fight, and nobody likes seeing someone turn around and withdraw except the guy doing the withdrawing. As such, I propose that each match be given eight minutes in which to try and do just that – if you can find him before those eight minutes are up, then feel free to take him.

What these two rules combined do is permit nearly half the match timer to be lopped off for players who find themselves on the bad end of the sort of Skirmish game that ruined Skirmish for me, as well as giving that last player in a match who wants to spend fifteen minutes harassing enemies in his Jenner and seeing if he can Go The Distance (or his increasingly frustrated dead teammates) an option for an honorable withdrawal if life intervenes or if their patience runs dry. Seven less minutes of bullscheiss is a goal to shoot for, at least as a starting point of discussion.

What about you folks? What would you like to see in a Withdraw option for MWO, how would you implement it to try and be fair to both sides in a match and limit abuse?

As long as I can set the "release valve" to prevent me from playing assault or conquest we are golden.

Otherwise, I do not, under any circumstances, support a measure that forces me to play a game mode that I strongly dislike

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 September 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

I feel your pain. I do really. But Withdrawal in CBT is a Mech Death Sentence except when it is part of the scenario rules.

Exiting the map Intentionally or not Destroys the exiting Mech.

The Exceptions:
Units having a Flanking Special Perk, or the Scenario calls for allowing any Mech on Team A (and sometimes B ) to retreat under "X" conditions, usually 75% casualties, or 50% personal damage. NOTE: You are NOT guaranteed safe passage in either case.

So Retreat should be an option, but it should not be a "Exit the game Free" option.

I think that when one chooses withdraw, they treat it exactly as a Loss and a Death, to their stats. So even if they have lets say, 3 kills and 5 assists, and all the peripherals when they withdraw, they get the bare-butt minimum rewards for it they would for a loss, even when they win, as the OP states.

But since one of the biggest things that players seem concerned about protecting is their precious epeen (hence players actively suiciding on Terra Therma, instead of simply discoing) it counts as a Death, too.

I think kicking them in their epeen is the single best way to minimize abuse, as usually that is the entire basis for their actions, to begin with.

Gyrok, on 22 September 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

As long as I can set the "release valve" to prevent me from playing assault or conquest we are golden.

Otherwise, I do not, under any circumstances, support a measure that forces me to play a game mode that I strongly dislike

then just be sure to never complain about wait times to get a match, my friend.

Also.... Skirmish is training wheels for MWO!

[Mechteric]

All game modes are currently about the same anyway, its almost always won by killing the enemy team.


So given the choice of the current game where you can get very lopsided matches, versus one where you may not get the game mode you want, it makes more sense to want have a more interesting and challenging game since its all practically skirmish mode anyway.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 22 September 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[RussianWolf]

1453 R, on 22 September 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

Hmm. My understanding was that this only applied to 'Mechs that quit after being destroyed. Players who Esc. > Quit prior to being destroyed get nothing, and also get their 'Mech locked down, and the 'Mech itself is destroyed in-game.

To answer both Reno and Codex as well: that's the victors talking. If you want to force me to play to the bitter end of every single match I drop in without any control of what type of matches those matches are, then you had best swear to me on your honor that you won't abuse Skirmish or Conquest game modes in order to create the sort of hyper-toxic bad experience that made players disable those game modes in the first place. I get that you would like to personally grind the hearts of every enemy you encounter under your steel-shod heels, but sometimes a game really is so awful that getting out of it's the only real option left.

The fact that you want to punish players who wish to avoid putting up with fifteen minutes' worth of completely awful match should really speak for itself, I suppose. Now, pleased as to stay reasonably on topic and discuss the feasibility and control measures required for such an option. I'm willing to debate the need for such an option but ask that players be respectful when they do so, as there are folks out there who've been asking for this, with good reason, for quite some time.

Nope. You can quit and rejoin. I have done so several times when desyncing was an issue. There is a chance that you will be destroyed in the meantime by an enemy, but not always.

My understanding is the same as Joseph's. You get your goods up till the point that you quit, and if you rejoin then you may get more. If you run out of bounds, you get zip.

You want to add something like this in and have it not be abused. Put a timer on it before they can start the next match. Surrender and you are either a POW or in the infirmary for 5? minutes. Can't drop during that time.