40 replies to this topic

[Tool Box]

Just got my first dire wolf. I would say I have fairly high elo considering I play against/with lords quite often. Also in my timber I would get 700+ games about every other game but in my dire I'm getting 700+ almost every single game. I feel like this is either a balance issue or my elo got reset because I'm using a new mech or something. I'm not trying to be narcissistic or anything like that I'm more concerned with balance. Are these mechs supposed to get damage like that? I thought the timber was supposed to be the best mech in the game. As an example 1 in every maybe 25 games I get a 1k game in my timber


Where as with my dire I got it within my first 5 games.

Edited by Tool Box, 29 September 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Send Bownd an Invite]

I do 700+ regularly in Warhawk, Atlas and Highlander builds. I really don't feel they are OP in any way, they are assault mechs I have yet to play a Direwolf but I know I usually get excited when i see one. They have big hit boxes, lots of ammo to blow up on the chz builds and they are terribly slow

Edited by Conjured, 29 September 2014 - 05:59 PM.

[JC Daxion]

I have not played either... But i do notice that dires and Madcats are typically the highest damage mechs in games i play. Does that mean they are OP? ehh.. i'd honestly lean towards to possibly.. I'd think nerfs, or some buffs will be coming in the future.. to me, when every match i see one of two mechs in the +700 range.. it makes me think they might be. Or maybe just easier to get that range at my ELO?

for the time being, i just watch myself when ever i see one of those mechs.. not to mention, i really want to find the ROCK, to their scissors

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 September 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Scurry]

Have you piloted Assaults before? Your Elo is separate for each weight class.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Depends whos using it, pugs generally like standing infront of a direwolf, whereas I like to approach from the side, you generally find in more competitive / teams of a higher ELO direwolves are a lot less effective than other assault mechs due to their poor manouverability. Direwolves are only really effective if the oppisition allow them to be, thats the key. Allow them to be and they will put down high DPS quick, thats why you often see them with high scores. Doesnt take much of a {LT-MOB-25} up for them to dish the damage

[Motörhead]

DWF is one of the best PUG assaults, because people don't twist, go out alone, push at wrong time etc, so you just punish them.

Fact is, DWF is also going to get punished at the first mistake in a good match, that's the whole point, immense firepower, but if you get focused there's nothing you can do, you are dead. Just, in PUGs, that doesn't happen too frequently.

However, after Mastering them, I pulled out mystalkers and got 3x 1000+ games in a row and I felt like I was driving a Jenner. So are stalkers overpowered too?

Also, there are like 3-4 per side every game since the release, you notice the one with 700-800 damage which is just normal assault damage,but what about the other 4-5 that got 300 damage ?

There are just too much of them right now ingame. 4-5 assaults per team is just not normal, think is as this : how often did you face or had 4 to 6 atlai in the same team ? 'cos this is the tonnage you are facing or running with. Just give it time

Edited by fx8320, 29 September 2014 - 11:27 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Dire Wolves have a lot of firepower, but are generaly the slowest and least manouverable mech in the match.
If properly supported and in a good position a Dire Wolf can dominate the match but if you get seperated from the rest of the team you die fast.

the Dire Wolf is powerful but highly situational, so in my opinion is not overpowered

[Flapdrol]

Direwolf may be slow, but has insane dps and can take a good bit of damage. By far the best assault until it gets nerfed. Watch out for other direwolves though, gotta have the drop on em, or you'll just stare eachother down as neither can back off in time.

[Wraith 1]

Speaking as a strictly IS pilot, I like direwhales. Kinda sucks when all of them are on the red side of the scoreboard, but they add a lot of spice to the game; being an extreme of firepower and sluggishness not seen on any other sanely built chassis.

As for whether they're OP, I'll withhold judgement on that until their IS counterpart is released this October.

I doubt it. They go down ridiculously fast vs a Jenner.

[Brizna]

In terms of raw DPS I think the Stalker brawlers actually out DPS most Direwolf builds in close quarters. You just need to get that close, but SRM 24 Vs big CT hitbox makes direwolves quickly reasses the validity of "don't go head to head versus a direwolf he'll win" assesment, which is true most of the time but not a total truth under any circumstances.
Which indirectly show us something: the DWF strength isn't just about high DPS, it's the polivalent range it can be applied, when you compare again to a stalker (outside lurmboats ofc) the stalker really has the worst side of the stick becuase while more maneuverable than a Direwolf its own agility is still very lacking, geting into a DWF's face without being torn to pieces before is a hard endeavour, but other than that I think DWF and STK are brother mechs, with STK having 15 less tons and IS tech but some of the best hitboxes in the game.
All in all DWF >> STK in open spaces but STK > DWF in really closed environments like the new map, that map seams designed with ECM Spiders and Stalkers in mind.

Edited by Brizna, 30 September 2014 - 03:34 AM.

[Modo44]

Brizna, on 30 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

In terms of raw DPS I think the Stalker brawlers actually out DPS most Direwolf builds in close quarters.

They actually do not. UACs allow for over 20 burst and high sustained DPS with ease. While keeping a distinct range advantage over SRM-heavy builds. The thing IS assaults would rely on is tanking, but the whale's raw burst DPS tends to negate it to a large degree.

Edited by Modo44, 30 September 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[oldradagast]

Direwolf and Stalker share some similarities - both have high firepower for the tonnage, both are reasonably durable, and both are sluggish for their tonnage.

I'm not sure so much if Direwolves are "broken" or if their escorts - Timberwolves and Stormcrows - are just so good that there's often no way to exploit the Direwolves weaknesses.

[Clownwarlord]

If elo and match making are decided on a persons per mech basis then when you get into a mech for the first time you would see that you are playing against a lower quality of players in their abilities which could be the cause of your 700+ average for a match in your Dire Wolf.

Now on the other hand the clans have a clear benefit against Inner Sphere mechs so with you piloting a clan mech you are using the benefit of a clan mech which means better tech such as weapon ranges, weapon damages, and the fact that can mechs can boat more weapons per ton then an equivalent Inner Sphere mech.

As for Dire Wolfs in part have caused issues with balancing such as 60 pin point alphas (cause for gauss and erppc nerf) which would also contribute to their effectiveness in a decent players hands.

***
So in other words clan mechs and tech are broken but in truth there isn't much you can do about it unless you want to get rid of lore completely and redesign each and every mech in the clans to not carry as many weapon hard points. As for the devs I believe they are doing their best to mitigate the issue but the issues sadly still remains and will do so until Inner Sphere mechs like the King Crab come into the game (dual AC20 onto of other weapons in an assault mech).

Edited by clownwarlord, 30 September 2014 - 03:43 AM.

[That Dawg]

Good point, I have been saving screenshots for a month now.
I WANTED to prove that clan mechs in general, and DIres and Timbers were no better.....but looking back at scores, clan mechs survive more often, and typically get higher scores. Across. The. Board.
Clearly clan mechs are superior, whether the longer range weapons, lighter load outs, smaller hit boxes...combination of all...or just lucky.........

Good players can do quite well in IS mechs, and they will do BETTER in Clan mechs

And its going to suck when PGI continues to balance scores.
All those who paid big cash for those mechs are already pissed, and all those who pay big Cbill money will be pissed when they get "trimmed" again......

[Haipyng]

Modo44, on 30 September 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

They actually do not. UACs allow for over 20 burst and high sustained DPS with ease. While keeping a distinct range advantage over SRM-heavy builds. The thing IS assaults would rely on is tanking, but the whale's raw burst DPS tends to negate it to a large degree.

Agreed. The Dire Whale can mount such a high alpha, frontal assaults on them are suicide runs. UAC from clans also allow a lot of shaking action disrupting counter attacks. In my Highlander I can't stand them. I can't compete with the additional clan range or the firepower it lays down and getting out of the way in the sluggish Highlander is tough. On my Spider 5K or 5D however it's like like a chihuahua attacking a tree. I can get right on their six and lay into them until they die...which does take awhile, or they get some support to chase me away.

Edited by Haipyng, 30 September 2014 - 03:56 AM.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

That Dawg, on 30 September 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

Good players can do quite well in IS mechs, and they will do BETTER in Clan mechs
......

Exactly that and when clan mechs first came out, the majority were longer serving players who are generally better players over the F2P, however as they come out for cbills theres a lot of poor players using DW's purely because its 100tonnes so I will be uber attitude, rather than learning how to play.

[That Dawg]

They need a NEW achievement. David and Goliath

I've killed more direwhales in my kitfox, than all other mechs combined

(reference to previous posters noting attack on dires in their lites, and coming out on top)

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

solo'd one sunday in my locust, pew pew pew!!

[Redshift2k5]

Didn't see anyone mention this yet, but.
Elo is per weight class. If you are an amazing player but this is your first assault mech, ta da, bottom of the Elo matrix and you get to wreck faces all day.

The Dire Wolf can lay down an oppressive amount of firepower but it is also really slow and fairly vulnerable, it's a scary mc an we've all known that since it came out in June.

[B0oN]

Is the Direwolf OP ?

Hmmmm, let´s have a look, shall we ?

Okie, plus-side fist :
100 Tons ... check
40+Tons Modulespace ... check
Dakka ... triple check in all honesty
Damageoutput ... doublecheck at the very least, firespeed is king in this thing

Minus-side !

Glacially slow ... 53.5 kph after speedtweak makes this a check
Torsotwist angle small ... can´t even see my 9o´clock partner, also check
Survivability low ... best discussions between cheeky/fast people and Direwolves
Heatmanagement ... Once you got guns it gets WARM (understating, english tone)


So, all in all it looks balanced, altough I know it can definitely feel totally "RAWR/OP" BUT it starts to look less good when its being attacked from sides/rear .
You can attack from the front and try to out-pace the DW-pilot or keep him off balance, but this way allows many mechs only 1 slip-up for which the DW can easily wait since it has quite good armor which makes the "straight-in-its-face" approach a potentially extremely costly matter with only small chances of success compared to a side- or rearattack.

Tl;Dr :
Battletech veterans knew the Direwolf would be a mighty battlemech, many a plea for its release was heard until it finally arrived in MW:O and now there is so many people surprised that it is dangerous to face off with this Direwolf ?
Poor chaps, I guess nothing could have prepared you then anyway