187 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

It is interesting to analyze the failures of the other mech games.

1. Hawken --- I find this really fun to play with. What killed it is that it lacks a true MMO infrastructure that brings the players together in one (or few servers) then settle them in matches using a matchmaker. The system that you see in LoL, WoT, War Thunder and MWO really works. It is like a heart that circulates players into finding quick games instead of long waits. Another failure of Hawken is that it fails to properly exploit the micropayment ecosystem that is essential for keeping F2P games alive. No income, no developers to make future content, which drops the interest and causes players to live. F2P games require a steady stream of content, but development of such has to be matched with an income base.

2. Armored Core --- This franchise for me has the best and most memorable single player campaigns I ever enjoyed in a mech game. I especially love the online only mode where four players face up to a monster boss mech or machine, seen in Armored Core V. This series had everything --- attention to detail, modularity and infinite configuration, tons of great maps, even a working system of community warfare (based on Chromehounds, which is also made by the same developers). But what killed it is because it is a console game, tied to console type ecosystems that are ultimately unsustainable and require big publishers to approve and finance each game release. The lack of an MMO ecosystem means it cannot consolidate players into matches, and the lack of an F2P freemium system means it cannot function as an independent, with a self sustaining revenue stream that can finance further content development. Having a meager player base divided along XBox and Playstation lines adds to the dilemna. Plus the very fact that these developers (FromSoftware) hit the gold mine with the Dark Souls franchise means their attention is going to be drawn in making more Dark Souls games. Likewise, we cannot expect another Chromehounds title as well.

So that is what essentially MWO got basically right --- a self sustaining MMO/MOBA infrastructure that pumps players into matches with an F2P Freemium ecosystem that finances content development. An important quality of this success is that the player base is unfragmented.

So what happens if another mech game assumes an MMO/MOBA player matchmaker system with an F2P Freemium ecosystem support. That is what interests me with Project HON, since its creators, NCSoft, has been hosting successful MMOs.

[Old Mechdonald]

Metal Gear looks weak. I think it ain't going to make it. Not a lot of money and there hasn't been a new video in quite some time.

[Heffay]

Old Mechdonald, on 08 December 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Metal Gear looks weak. I think it ain't going to make it. Not a lot of money and there hasn't been a new video in quite some time.

It's still pretty early in the development, but it has a pretty big hill to climb. I'm sure the Pada Vinson's of the gaming world will go to great lengths touting how every aspect of it is hands-down better than MWO, but we'll see when it gets into Open Beta. I'll give it a try, but... robots on rollerskates... yeah. Yeah.

"Press X to remove immersion."

[XphR]

M.A.V. But I have not wanted to put up the 20$ to try the alpha.

[Hex Pallett]

The problem with all the other mech game is, they all look the ******* same, either jagged-metal-wielded-together or boxy-boxy-boxy. There is...no soul. In any of them. MWO? Look at Jenner, then Stalker, then Hunchback, then Direwolf. There're personalities in the design, and although it can be categorized, there're different styles of combats, too. When it comes to aesthetic design, MWO is leagues ahead of any mech game out there.

Gameplay wise, WoT has no lasers nor missiles but that's probably the next best thing, however that game is inherently unbalanced and is aimed toward the WWII fetish crowd.

MWO didn't win the mecha-game war - there ain't much left on the field to begin with.

[StompingOnTanks]

I pray to GOD we get another Armored Core game... That game is too important to my childhood to die now.

Or even better... Armored Core Online. Fans have been asking for that for a long time now.

[Vassago Rain]

StompingOnTanks, on 10 December 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I pray to GOD we get another Armored Core game... That game is too important to my childhood to die now.

Or even better... Armored Core Online. Fans have been asking for that for a long time now.

FROM isn't gonna make more armored core until they've milked dark souls for all it's worth. They might create something late 2015 or 2016.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 10 December 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[Anjian]

Would be nice to see an Armored Core Online but FromSoftware has no experience in making an MMO, although they are certainly far ahead of anyone including PGI in making community warfare work (FromSoftware's Chromehounds).

Since Kadokawa picked up FromSoftware, I suspect something might be up. The Armored Core game engine can make something like a true Gundam game come through. I really like to see a true Gundam Online, not the current MSGO which kinda sucked.

As for aesthetic design, while MWO looks quite nice and mechs have a personality, I also find it looking outdated and less science fiction like. It has to be said that Michael Bay's Transformers helped alter the sense of robot-mecha aesthetic, away from stompy robots and into highly jagged metalic designs that move fast with lots of articulated moving parts. It also has to be said that the new Michael Bay aesthetic also challenges previous Japanese established aesthetics (notably by Shoji Kawamori, who worked in Armored Core, Pat Labor, the original Transformers, Macross and Gundam). An example of this new aesthetic is the mechs you see in Titanfall.

[Hex Pallett]

Anjian, on 10 December 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Since Kadokawa picked up FromSoftware, I suspect something might be up. The Armored Core game engine can make something like a true Gundam game come through. I really like to see a true Gundam Online, not the current MSGO which kinda sucked.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Kadokawa's main field of operations anime and manga? (Googled. Yup, seems like their only not-anime-bullsh*t games are Killer is Dead and Lollipop Chainsaw, which are pretty close to anime bullsh*t anyway. Oh and of course they are the ones running Kantai Collections...) Acquiring From is, IMO, more like a move toward AAA videogame market, so expect them to play some safe cards first. Also, Gundam is Sunrise's brand. I heard cross-studio brand-sharing is fairly rare in Japan.

Anjian, on 10 December 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

As for aesthetic design, while MWO looks quite nice and mechs have a personality, I also find it looking outdated and less science fiction like.

Well, we've entered apple vs orange zone. I completely despise the whole Japanese anime mecha. The retro-sci-fi look of MWO fits my taste perfectly.

Edited by Helmstif, 11 December 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[Iothil]

Helmstif, on 11 December 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

The retro-sci-fi look of MWO fits my taste perfectly.

Agree. The only thing that I miss entirely in MWO is the simple lack of destructable environment. Imagine PPC and LRMS grinding away cover or Gauss Rifles shooting through walls (with dmg deduction, hopefully). I really hope that in the distant future we will have this

[Anjian]

Funny how you say that when you consider how much earlier Battetech bots resemble or copied off Japanese mecha.

For me, many of the "mechs" in BT don't even properly look like mecha. They look like giant vehicles with legs. Furthermore, there is no consistency in their design, as the franchise jump from one artist to another. Some go from humanoid to vehicular, some are fat, some are thin, some are amphibian like, some are like chickens. Its like they all seem to come from different franchises, with each franchise having their own techno-canon rules that define their designs.

Scifi franchises tend to have one consistent look in their machine designs that for example, you won't mistake a Star Wars ship from a Star Trek one. For that matter, you won't mistake a design if its from the Gundam, Transformer, or Macross series. Each scifi franchise operates on a set of laws and rules that govern their universe, and the design of their machines should reflect those rules. (A franchise rule, no matter how silly, is a franchise rule, example, the inability of Ash to detect Team Rocket in disguise in Pokemon).

I like the designs in Titanfall and Hawken, they have nothing to do with Japanese mecha or the sluggish industrial looking Battletech ones. They feature a lot of movement, articulation and animation in their parts, and a lot of imagination goes to the way they are animated. For example, when a Hawken mech boosts, it kicks back both its back legs that reminds me of the way a frog swims in water. When they shoot, you can see their arms recoil with every shot. There is a certain gait when they walk, they don't walk like golems or zombies or the Mummy, but rather like the way a hunter moves through the forest hunting its prey.

They are also heavily movie inspired, Bey certainly a source of inspiration but like in the case of Hawken, they got a mech called the Predator, which is inspired from the movie Predators --- complete with optical camouflage. You can only detect one by carefully looking at the optical refraction of the background environment. Then there is size consistency, mechs in one franchise are all consistent in their sizing. In Pacific Rim, they are all seem to be in the 60 to 80m range. In Hawken, you got three sizes, light, heavy and assault, but all three sizes are close to one another, and the mechs in one class are sized the same way. Armored Core mech sizes are consistent to one particular series, though the average sizes per series seem to change (AC IV mechs are considerably bigger than AC V mechs, but all AC V mechs are roughly the same size.) Setting such rules also helps in the map making, so that no map might be too big or too small for one mech, and size consistency also means consistency in their hit boxes, so there is no imbalance between one mech or another due to the artwork.

[xeromynd]

xengk, on 02 December 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Full trailer is up.

Skip to 5:05 for the trailer and 6:30 for gameplay footage.




****** brix at 18:25

The end splash screen (while saying "FOR MOBILE" [please dear god don't let that be the case]) shows it on a PC, tablet, phone, and VR. Lawd jesus help me this better be awesome

[luxebo]

Quick update: Transformers Universe is shut down after around 2 months, meaning that it will not exist anymore in February. Jagex overall is lacking.

But on a serious note, MWO is still thriving and I'm still happy for it's existence, and hopefully I can finally have a stable internet (even had to buy a new modem and everything. The next things that will in fact increase MWO's player base is a steam update and a much easier and friendlier new player experience, and CW refinement of course (i.e. new maps, etc).

Hawken's forums are down, not sure whether it was "temporary" as in MW Tactics "temporary" (aka dead forever), or if it's actually temporary. Hopefully that latter.

[XphR]

Hawken has moved to steam community. But they are still apparently under a gag order as far as any communications go.

[Vassago Rain]

XphR, on 19 December 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

Hawken has moved to steam community. But they are still apparently under a gag order as far as any communications go.

Adhesive no longer exist, but for some weird reason, they're not allowed to tell people that they don't exist anymore. The lead designer is making games like this now.

https://play.google....ldelivery&hl=en

ggclose. It's ogre.

[XphR]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

Adhesive no longer exist, but for some weird reason, they're not allowed to tell people that they don't exist anymore. The lead designer is making games like this now.

https://play.google....ldelivery&hl=en

ggclose. It's ogre.

I have a feeling they sold the IP to an as of yet to surface party with the gag order being a portion of the purchase.

[Anjian]

Hawken is based on the massively mistaken assumption that people really want to play FPS. They should have done their research.

Too bad, I did have much memorable fun on it once.

[StompingOnTanks]

Anjian, on 21 December 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

Hawken is based on the massively mistaken assumption that people really want to play FPS. They should have done their research.

Not sure what you mean by that, FPS is the most popular video game genre.

[Vassago Rain]

XphR, on 21 December 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

I have a feeling they sold the IP to an as of yet to surface party with the gag order being a portion of the purchase.

A chinese company actually bought them out ages ago. I believe the chinese version is just as dead as the western one, however.

It's funny, because all of this is already widely known, but the disbanded dev team are still not allowed to confirm or deny it.

[AUSSIETROOPER4]

That could be construed as fraud.