41 replies to this topic

[Shadow 101]

Really enjoying CW but...

Dunno about premades but every solo drop I have been on were you have to attack a base ends in a loose. The odds are greatly stacked against you, there are far to many base turrets IMO. This is critism is primarily aim at the BOREAL VAULT map.

I know in RL assaulting a heavily fortified and defended posistion is not easy and usually has to be done with overwelming force superiority but this is a game. Im all for realism but...

I think lowering the amount of turrets (or at least there hit points) and/or upping the tonnaage allowed for attacking forces may help a bit.

Also the maps just seem to have choke points into the base were you are shot up unless you charge in and get wasted by enemy mechs and defence turrets.

*Edited post to make it clear im talking about the BOREAL VAULT map.

Edited by Eblean, 13 December 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Alternatively, we could give attackers 5 'Mechs each instead of 4, and leave the base defenses intact.

That's how most asymmetrical games get balanced. Attackers get effectively more guys on the field via faster respawn or more players.

[Lily from animove]

yeah sulfur in puggs seems to be a 99% defenders thing.

but we don't need to give them more mechs, we simply could raise their tonnage.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 December 2014 - 04:32 PM.

[KraftySOT]

They arent. Theres plenty of units winning every attack they play. Its just difficult.

[Mystere]

It's only been 24 hours and nerfs are already being called for. Just another day in MWO.

Edited by Mystere, 12 December 2014 - 04:40 PM.

[Artgathan]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

yeah sulfur in puggs seems to be a 99% defenders thing.

but we don't need to give them more mechs, we simply could raise their tonnage.

The problem with Sulfur is that since the routes to each gate are so long it takes the attackers a long time to arrive (especially since the attacker's drop points don't move up). Furthermore since the gates converge on a relatively small area it's relatively easy for the defenders to move between the gates as needed.

[Acuaslo]

It's practically impossible to stop the all Timber 12 man rush for the base ignoring everything else. No need to give the attackers even more advantage than they already have.
And if the 12 man Timbers don't work, you'll have crows, crows everywhere like in a hitchcock movie followed by more Timbers.

The problem this tactic has is that nobody will get to +80 match points (only important during the challenge thou) when you finish it before 2 mins have gone.

tldr: Zerg rush wins practicallly everytime when executed correctly.

P.D: Timber, his arms wide open

[pwnface]

You are really complaining about a 12 TBR rush? It's not like they run super fast or are hard to hit.. 12 TBRs take quite a while to get to the base, with even rudimentary target calling and aiming you should be able to kill at least half before they even reach the objective. The IS light mech zerg rush is much harder to counter for teams that aren't prepared for it.

[_Comrade_]

It's difficult but impossible I have been on attack missions where we needed to just push a little harder and we could of destroyed the base . Still Vegas odds favor the defender , when groups of pugs can successfully defend against premade groups , then yes Houston we have a problem

[Weird Beard]

It is my belief that they made the defender advantage as a balance so planets don't change hands willy nilly. I can see the border locations spiralling wildly out of control especially if mega alliances coordinate well enough. Flipping a planet SHOULD be bloody difficult.

[Kell Commander]

I honestly think current results have more to do with map design than anything. I like the maps a lot, but they make it very easy for the defender to hold off attacks. Unless the attacking team has the perfect lineup to support each other (which pugs never have) then you can pretty much chalk up the win to the defender.

On another note, how the hell does it determine who is attacking and defending? Played 6 matches tonight as planet defenders and only defended a base once tonight. Last night I played 4 matches, and defended every time. No way to mix better?

[Shadow 101]

I have been playing all day and 70% of the matches have been as the attacker. Not one win, those gate choke points are a shooting gallery for defenders. Sure you can charge through them towards the objective and get cut to pieces trying to do so. Ive seen the cautious approach fail, the charge tactics fail, the charge but at a slower pace fail.

At leas make the gate opening x4 the size or something. That coupled with the turrets and getting 1 shotted by incoming drop ships makes it almost impssible. I have been on the defending side in pugs and not seen one premade or pug destroy the orbitial gun, although im sure some do.

Every time i get the snow map as an attacker now I just press the exit battle because I know what a cluster **** its gona be. And TBH charging towrds a objective ignoring all in your path (exept maybe the turrets) to shoot it aint much fun (if this is the winning strategy due to time limit)

Edited by Eblean, 13 December 2014 - 11:38 AM.

[generalazure]

Acuaslo, on 12 December 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

...you'll have crows, crows everywhere like in a hitchcock movie followed by more Timbers.

Think this is the most accurate description of CW battles I've read yet

[MalodorousMonkey]

I've heard people saying the exact opposite. Some think that it's too easy as an attacker. Really it's just all about coordination. If you drop in a pug group that plays like a typical pug group (i.e. not listening to chat, working as an individual, not a group, etc.) then you will almost certainly lose an attack.

One of my first CW drops was an attack match and my team wouldn't listen to any calls for organization. It was on the sulfur map, and our team bunched up at the center gate entrance and just did peek shooting through the gate. It was awful to watch unfold for an entire half hour. I asked them to gather and push as one, but they didn't listen. Just stood at the entrance hoping to get some kills I guess.

However, in the games where the team listened and gathered outside a gate before making a push, I have won attacks a little more than half the time (Like, 3/5.)

It really is a matter of organization and realizing that you can't play Invasion the way you play any other game mode in the game. The first wave needs to be focused on taking down turrets. Those turrets are what make the defending team stronger, and they don't respawn. So kill those first, even if your first wave wipes as a result. You then have a much better chance of surviving long enough to focus the generator and kill it on the following waves.

[Azerius Mezinar]

Eblean, on 12 December 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Really enjoying CW but...

Dunno about premades but every solo drop I have been on were you have to attack a base ends in a loose. The odds are greatly stacked against you, there are far to many base turrets IMO.

I know in RL assaulting a heavily fortified and defended posistion is not easy and usually has to be done with overwelming force superiority but this is a game. Im all for realism but...

I think lowering the amount of turrets (or at least there hit points) and/or upping the tonnaage allowed for attacking forces may help a bit.

Also the maps just seem to have choke points into the base were you are shot up unless you charge in and get wasted by enemy mechs and defence turrets.

I agree with this post entirely, and some of the pre-mades I joined in my unit even ended in failure, so it's not just you. One of the big problems we had was that the dropship puts the IS/Defending mechs RIGHT on top of the generator, making it super easy for them to defend it with their fresh mechs. This is especially true considering the Drop ships possess exceptional range on their weaponry, and are firing lasers at you as they're dropping.

I get that PGI did not want trolls to be able to spawn-camp, but this particular aspect makes actually winning very, very difficult.

[Chemie]

MalodorousMonkey, on 13 December 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

I've heard people saying the exact opposite. Some think that it's too easy as an attacker. Really it's just all about coordination. If you drop in a pug group that plays like a typical pug group (i.e. not listening to chat, working as an individual, not a group, etc.) then you will almost certainly lose an attack.

One of my first CW drops was an attack match and my team wouldn't listen to any calls for organization. It was on the sulfur map, and our team bunched up at the center gate entrance and just did peek shooting through the gate. It was awful to watch unfold for an entire half hour. I asked them to gather and push as one, but they didn't listen. Just stood at the entrance hoping to get some kills I guess.

However, in the games where the team listened and gathered outside a gate before making a push, I have won attacks a little more than half the time (Like, 3/5.)

It really is a matter of organization and realizing that you can't play Invasion the way you play any other game mode in the game. The first wave needs to be focused on taking down turrets. Those turrets are what make the defending team stronger, and they don't respawn. So kill those first, even if your first wave wipes as a result. You then have a much better chance of surviving long enough to focus the generator and kill it on the following waves.

How can you convince pugs to not stand at a choke point and slowly get killed? I mean PUSH you idiot pugs

[Weaselball]

Odds are stacked, yes. But not impossible.

Just won an attack, clan VS clan on Outpost, pug VS pug. We talked a LOT though, made sure everyone was on board with the plan before dropping. Everyone stuck to the strategy and it came through.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

yeah sulfur in puggs seems to be a 99% defenders thing.

but we don't need to give them more mechs, we simply could raise their tonnage.

All these suggestions are missing one point. Sometimes the Defenders are the ones attacking.

The same word used for different meanings. If your faction controls the planet, then you are the Defenders, otherwise you are the Attackers. If the Attackers have a majority of wins, then they will be defending (small d) their foothold on the planet.

So you can't just say the Attackers get a boost, or else the team defending the base might get the boost.

The areas to balance are the turrets (MLs instead of LL perhaps), less damage from Dropships, increased dropship times for defenders etc. That and fix the lag around the Gauss cannons. Anything that bogs down the game helps the defenders...

[Shadow 101]

MalodorousMonkey, on 13 December 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

I've heard people saying the exact opposite. Some think that it's too easy as an attacker. Really it's just all about coordination. If you drop in a pug group that plays like a typical pug group (i.e. not listening to chat, working as an individual, not a group, etc.) then you will almost certainly lose an attack.

One of my first CW drops was an attack match and my team wouldn't listen to any calls for organization. It was on the sulfur map, and our team bunched up at the center gate entrance and just did peek shooting through the gate. It was awful to watch unfold for an entire half hour. I asked them to gather and push as one, but they didn't listen. Just stood at the entrance hoping to get some kills I guess.

However, in the games where the team listened and gathered outside a gate before making a push, I have won attacks a little more than half the time (Like, 3/5.)

It really is a matter of organization and realizing that you can't play Invasion the way you play any other game mode in the game. The first wave needs to be focused on taking down turrets. Those turrets are what make the defending team stronger, and they don't respawn. So kill those first, even if your first wave wipes as a result. You then have a much better chance of surviving long enough to focus the generator and kill it on the following waves.

Yep I agree aswell exept on the map with the snow. And trying to co-ordinate pugs is at best not easy. Im sure if your with a large premade on *Insert whatever voice comms you use here* it is alot easier.

[Sheraf]

Weaselball, on 13 December 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Odds are stacked, yes. But not impossible.

Just won an attack, clan VS clan on Outpost, pug VS pug. We talked a LOT though, made sure everyone was on board with the plan before dropping. Everyone stuck to the strategy and it came through.

Were you in that match, where you guys rush in our base from gamma and shoot the generator? Yes attack is not impossible. We won that base before you guys took it as well.