28 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

I think the entire attack/defend/counter-attack mechanic is far too confusing and unnatural.

This is how they should simplify the system:

The faction with less than 50% control of the planet should always be attacking.
The faction with more than 50% control of the planet should always be defending.

Winning an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to attacking team.
Defending an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to defending team.

Attacking a planet that has no defenders (after 10 minute wait) gives the attackers 1% control.
Defending a planet that has no attackers (after a 10 minute wait) gives the defenders 1% control.

This is a simple system that is EASY for people to understand and allows a smaller faction to defend against a larger attacking force if they actually win their defense matches.

Real matches against live opponents should be weighted more heavily than no attacker/defender freebie wins.

Attackers and defenders should also be able to make progress on a planet if the opposing faction doesn't want to defend or continue attacking a planet.

If you think this is a better system than what we have in place, please like or bump this thread for visibility. If you don't like it or see a problem with it, let's have some discussion on how we can improve it.

[lonewolf13]

You could argue that allowing freebie matches to hold their current weight will provoke houses to organize units to defend more adamantly knowing that freebie matches will cause a planet to fall quicker. But on the other hand it’s a somewhat unfair system to those who are more organized than others allowing a planet to fall quicker to those with the advantage…It needs to be balanced, but in what way? *shrug* I don’t think the system we have right now is bad, but it could definitely be improved upon, but that’s why it’s in beta right?

Bottom-line, I agree that matches against real opponents should outweigh matches against nobody (freebie matches). Once the smoke settles on the CW release I think we’ll see less freebie matches, but we’ll never get rid of them completely.

[Gas Guzzler]

My only concern is that not defending becomes a defense.

Say it is 2 hours before the cease-fire, and a contested planet needs 20% to be flipped. Defenders have been losing consistently to some super awesome House Kurita unit, and realize that if they lose the next 4 matches they will lose the planet, which is entirely possible in a 2 hour limit. Then they realize that if they just leave, it would take over 3 hours to flip the planet, which means it wouldn't get flipped before the cease-fire.

I would really like to focus on the issue of not finding opponents, because I think we all agree that it sucks and is boring even if it makes getting a planet faster. Maybe an option to drop wherever you are needed and a contract is available?

[Crockdaddy]

I am on board with this idea only I would give even greater weight to live matches. Say 10% ... and keep the 5 minute queue intact. No need have players wait longer. Other wise I like this idea.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

The simplest way to deter and solve the whole ghost drop issue is limit the maximum # of times it can be used in an hour period to like 1 or 2.

It still allows it to be used against a defender who refuses to defend, but can't be used to game the system to avoid battles and still win.

[Gas Guzzler]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 18 December 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

The simplest way to deter and solve the whole ghost drop issue is limit the maximum # of times it can be used in an hour period to like 1 or 2.

It still allows it to be used against a defender who refuses to defend, but can't be used to game the system to avoid battles and still win.

Not a bad idea, i think it should be 2 or 3 times, as you can realistically get 2-3 matches in a one hour period. If you have an hour between now and cease fire and you need to lower them 3 ticks to keep your planet it would be a huge bummer. Helpless to defend

If you need 4 ticks then you wouldn't have had enough time anyway.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Not a bad idea, i think it should be 2 or 3 times, as you can realistically get 2-3 matches in a one hour period. If you have an hour between now and cease fire and you need to lower them 3 ticks to keep your planet it would be a huge bummer. Helpless to defend

If you need 4 ticks then you wouldn't have had enough time anyway.

That works too. Additionally, it frees up a clogged queue and allows those players to get involved in other important battles and smooths out wait times across the board. Pretty much a win/win.

[pwnface]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 18 December 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

That works too. Additionally, it frees up a clogged queue and allows those players to get involved in other important battles and smooths out wait times across the board. Pretty much a win/win.

I don't understand how it would free up a clogged queue. If nobody is defending a planet are you simply unable to queue for the planet after 2-3 ghost cap wins? What if a defender arrives after you've ghost capped 2-3 times already? Would your queue last indefinitely after you've reached your 2-3 ghost cap limit?

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 18 December 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

I don't understand how it would free up a clogged queue. If nobody is defending a planet are you simply unable to queue for the planet after 2-3 ghost cap wins? What if a defender arrives after you've ghost capped 2-3 times already? Would your queue last indefinitely after you've reached your 2-3 ghost cap limit?

I assume it would say failed to find opponent until the next hour starts or some defenders queue up. Once you get that message its cue to do something on a different planet and come back and maybe try again after playing a match?

If/when PGI adds the queue counter, that will immensely help because if you see there are no defenders and you have already done 3 free drops then you don't even bother attacking. You could and hope someone joins while you are waiting, but the choice would be yours.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 December 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[pwnface]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

My only concern is that not defending becomes a defense.

Say it is 2 hours before the cease-fire, and a contested planet needs 20% to be flipped. Defenders have been losing consistently to some super awesome House Kurita unit, and realize that if they lose the next 4 matches they will lose the planet, which is entirely possible in a 2 hour limit. Then they realize that if they just leave, it would take over 3 hours to flip the planet, which means it wouldn't get flipped before the cease-fire.

In your example you say it would take 3 hours to finish flipping a planet, this would be true if you only have a one unit attacking the same planet at a time. Each attacking group could potentially take 1% of control every 10 minutes if there are no defenders.

This system would still favor a faction that focuses its forces to overwhelm a planet, but doesn't make it impossible to defend against multiple groups.

Say you are defending a planet against invading forces and win 1 defense every 30 minutes. That means every 30 minutes you gain 5% control. If you are facing 3 attacking groups at a time, the group that you actually meet in a match gains 0% and the other two groups can gain a maximum of 3% each during the 30 minutes that your match took. Since your team took 5% and the other 3 teams only gained 6% combined, they only gain an additional 1% control. If your team lost though, the attackers would gain 11% control instead.

One of the major problems we are seeing in community warfare is the disparity in faction population. As it currently exists, having a 3 to 1 ratio of attackers vs defenders means even if you are winning every single defense you are still losing 2 tokens during the duration of your match.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I assume it would say failed to find opponent until the next hour starts or some defenders queue up. Once you get that message its cue to do something on a different planet and come back and maybe try again after playing a match?

If/when PGI adds the queue counter, that will immensely help because if you see there are no defenders and you have already done 3 free drops then you don't even bother attacking. You could and hope someone joins while you are waiting, but the choice would be yours.

Something along those lines yes. Even before something like this, they need to make the data for a system transparent so people can easily shift around where they know they'll be able to have a large impact, within minimal wait time, rather than clogging a queue on a single system while the others are starving for players.

[Adamski]

They should just bump the ghost drop timer from 10 minutes (previously 5 minutes) to 20/30 minutes.

Uncontested planets will still be flipping, but it will feel more like it feels in soloq when you cannot get a match, instead of the faction being rewarded for it, it will also give the defending team a chance to face more of the attackers before they ghost drop.

Grossly overpopulated factions can still ghost rush,but they will have more fun looking for defended planets, or spreading the population around.

[pwnface]

Adamski, on 18 December 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

They should just bump the ghost drop timer from 10 minutes (previously 5 minutes) to 20/30 minutes.

Uncontested planets will still be flipping, but it will feel more like it feels in soloq when you cannot get a match, instead of the faction being rewarded for it, it will also give the defending team a chance to face more of the attackers before they ghost drop.

Grossly overpopulated factions can still ghost rush,but they will have more fun looking for defended planets, or spreading the population around.

So you want players to stay searching for a match for 20-30 minutes before rewarding anything? That sounds like it would suck.

I suspect that once queue information for planets are available, it'll solve the issue of players not being able to find matches.

[Adamski]

I think they should be waiting the length of a standard CW match before being given a free win.

If they don't want to wait that long, move to another planet/front or change away from the over populated faction.

[pwnface]

Adamski, on 18 December 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

I think they should be waiting the length of a standard CW match before being given a free win.

If they don't want to wait that long, move to another planet/front or change away from the over populated faction.

I think this is a terrible idea. You can get a free win but only if you wait for 30 minutes? Why don't you just make the win worth less and the wait shorter?

[Adamski]

Because PGI has already changed the drop timer once, so a second change will be just as easy, compared to implementing an entirely new planet tracking system.

[Lily from animove]

somehow the idea is god, but opposition less is only worth 1/5th? thats not fair at all, because imagine a plent contested

side A has 12 ultrapros, side B has 36 ultranewbies.

beign outnumberd should actually penalise you, yet such a setup would probably cause 5% for side a and only 2% for side B, or even worse when Side A can wipes side B within 10 minutes and can queue upa gain they will end with 10% side A and 1% side B.

if no one is there to defend, you lose wars, that is how ot works, and should be.
Otherwisw a few skille duntis jsut own anything, by making much % some hours before before ceasfire and then they stay away and attackers can not even conquer the planet.

When a faction makes coordinated attacks and outnumbers the opponent they should get a fair share for this and so unopposed should also be as much worth as a true attack.

I still think % and a wider rnage than only 11 is still a better option, but the numbers you ahve chosen aren't good.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 December 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

I would suggest:
If the attacking faction is getting 5 drops to your 1 in, make them have to win 5 times to count as 1 win and vice versa. The Davions currently just pick a planet and swarm drop it till they get 100%.
Last night we came out of a drop, victorious...only to see our defense was pointless. In the space of our match attacker wins had gone up to 100%......
What's the point when your enemy just has to drop more often than you POSSIBLY can.

[Lily from animove]

kamiko kross, on 19 December 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

I would suggest:
If the attacking faction is getting 5 drops to your 1 in, make them have to win 5 times to count as 1 win and vice versa. The Davions currently just pick a planet and swarm drop it till they get 100%.
Last night we came out of a drop, victorious...only to see our defense was pointless. In the space of our match attacker wins had gone up to 100%......
What's the point when your enemy just has to drop more often than you POSSIBLY can.

thats how war works if you are outnumbered.

[Killstorm999999]

Adamski, on 18 December 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

Because PGI has already changed the drop timer once, so a second change will be just as easy, compared to implementing an entirely new planet tracking system.

But a new planet tracking system is the real solution!