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Grand council thread


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#21 Stormwolf

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:18 PM

Messaged the Sea Fox, Jade Falcon and Jade Wolf board, signed up with the Nova Cats.

I'll try signing up with the following boards next:
http://www.widowmakers.com/forums/
http://www.novacrusader.com/cbs/
http://hellshorses.net/

#22 Seth

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:59 PM

CBS is definitely one of the more serious RP units out there. I can almost guarantee they will be up for proper clan fighting styles.

#23 Stormwolf

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:18 PM

View PostSeth, on 27 November 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

CBS is definitely one of the more serious RP units out there. I can almost guarantee they will be up for proper clan fighting styles.


That is good to hear ...erm read.

Edited by Stormwolf, 27 November 2011 - 02:18 PM.


#24 DCleric

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:20 PM

I'm not sure where the group I'm in will play, we always played as a non canon clan. I do however think there are going to be massive issues with new people "accidentally" engaging multiple combatants and then claiming it didn't happen. So far from what I've read I think enforcing a numerical disadvantage for the clans unless negotiated away will be a smoother functioning way to even the technology difference. Think about it once the numbers are agreed upon and the drop commences, who engauges who becomes a lot less important

#25 Stormwolf

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

View PostDCleric, on 27 November 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

I'm not sure where the group I'm in will play, we always played as a non canon clan. I do however think there are going to be massive issues with new people "accidentally" engaging multiple combatants and then claiming it didn't happen. So far from what I've read I think enforcing a numerical disadvantage for the clans unless negotiated away will be a smoother functioning way to even the technology difference. Think about it once the numbers are agreed upon and the drop commences, who engauges who becomes a lot less important


To Clan warriors it is a personal thing. You don't need the help of comrades to defeat your enemy, any Inner Sphere warrior who firest upon you would be fair game under honor level 2, since it is he who challenged you. From a Clan POV it is perceived that the IS warrior wants to challenge you because he wants a greater challenge (eventhough he really only wanted a cheap shot at you.)

It basically boils down to "look at how badass I am".

#26 Jaroth Corbett

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:34 PM

View PostSeth, on 27 November 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

CBS is definitely one of the more serious RP units out there. I can almost guarantee they will be up for proper clan fighting styles.


Indeed. Good to see you posting around ovkhan.

I am Jaroth Winson of Clan Wolf. I stand ready to unite the Clans if the originators such as Stormwolf & Seth deem me worthy.

#27 Ressk

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:50 PM

I am Ressk of Clan Sea Fox

truth is we are a tiny clan, and moving from mwll to this does not look like a very big possibility. I cannot speak for individual members of course.

We support the formation of the clans for this game, if (and its a big if) we do not end up with the mass exodus to the clans because our stuff is just better ;)

#28 DCleric

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 03:24 PM

I'm saying it's going to be an issue both ways. IS hits two or more clan mechs, the IS mech is fair game then you hear " You cheated you ganged up on me. The other way you'll hear dishonorable IS warriors ganged up when I was already attacking an Atlas with my Fire Moth" when the Fire Moth pilot missed once and caught a different IS mech. I'm just concerned there will be a lot of whining one way or the other or even worse BOTH ways. I'm hoping for a rather large influx of new players. I know my son is now interested and he hasn't played before. In a city furball of a battle, shots go wide, mechs get bunched up, and stuff happens

#29 KingCobra

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 03:41 PM

I personally dont like the idea of any Grand Counsil i dont want anyone telling me how ,where or what i can do with my clan,faction,or the players under me or beside me fighting for clan rights in this game or in any other way.And i dont want a Grand Counsil that makes decisions on this game for me in any way to the devs.MWL & NBT were reminders of what one faction can decide for all and it sucked for everyone so most left and refused to play.We dont need a few power hungry players controling all of MWO.In fact i would fight to not allow it happen as many i think would.So lets not jump to any who is going to control what and who. ;)

Edited by KingCobra, 27 November 2011 - 03:46 PM.


#30 DCleric

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 03:49 PM

View PostKingCobra, on 27 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

I personally dont like the idea of any Grand Counsil i dont want anyone telling me how ,where or what i can do with my clan,faction,or the players under me or beside me fighting for clan rights in this game or in any other way.And i dont want a Grand Counsil that makes decisions on this game for me in any way to the devs.MWL & NBT were reminders of what one faction can decide for all and it sucked for everyone so most left and refused to play.We dont need a few power hungry players controling all of MWO.In fact i would fight to not allow it happen as many i think would.So lets not jump to any who is going to control what and who. ;)

Fair enough.

#31 UltraMek

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:29 PM

Hello, I'm in Seth's clan. We were the the primary Jade Falcon in MW4:Mercs (JFc then CJF if anyone remembers). I don't think playing zellbrigen is really an issue. We took it upon ourselves to mostly play by (and essentially handicap ourselves) with zellbrigen in public games and closely adhere to them in league games. The leagues seemed to dictate which clans would be more than flashes in the pan, and league play can enforce Clan rules of engagement, if only because people who were really enthusiastic about being a clan (like we were) liked to role play, and zellbrigen and not legging was part of that.

#32 Frantic Pryde

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:41 PM

As Serh and Ultrmech mentioned, you can count on the Falcons.

I sincerely hope that clan honor in general will be part of the clan leveling system.

#33 Colddawg

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:19 PM

I am here representing a faction known as Red Sky in other games, and I can assure you all that nearly all of our members will adhere to a style of Zell if we are IS, and strictly to Zell if we are clan.

However, we will not hinder ourselves in what we feel is an equal fight.

That being said, we still need to see what kind of limitations the devs design into the clan tech. Historically heat has been the balance between clan and IS tech in previous MW games. What would really keep them from changing that?

#34 Seth

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:29 PM

If/when Clan tech is introduced, I expect the balancing factors to be cost and heat. Zell probably won't be one of those balancing factors. Restricting Clan players to Zellbrigen style fighting honestly seems unrealistic from a developers point of view. Besides, a team of Merc players having salvaged a Star of Omni-mechs from battle wouldn't be bound by the same Zell restriction.

#35 CoffiNail

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:14 AM

This can easily be fixed with a claim button. Have a clansmen claim button that will ID that someone has claimed this mech for zellbreggen dueling If you target a mech and it IDs as claimed then you target the next one. If all mechs are seemingly engaged to not gang up will still leave you with a level of honor for participating in the said battle even if you end up not fighting someone.

But really a current target claim command is one of the only ways I see it working. Someone interferes with your duel THEY lose the honor/exp points not the warrior engaged. It can easily be done maybe a shift + T or something when you have the mech you want to challenge.

#36 Renegade

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:27 AM

View PostCoffiNail, on 28 November 2011 - 07:14 AM, said:

This can easily be fixed with a claim button. Have a clansmen claim button that will ID that someone has claimed this mech for zellbreggen dueling If you target a mech and it IDs as claimed then you target the next one. If all mechs are seemingly engaged to not gang up will still leave you with a level of honor for participating in the said battle even if you end up not fighting someone.


My only concern with that depends on the reward system for the game. If you have something like Battlefield where more kills = more rewards, then the reward for adhering to honor needs to be comparable to the lost kills. Otherwise you more or less require people to break Zellbrigen to remain competitive.

#37 Amarus Cameron

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:00 AM

Wether my Clan brethren will take up their honor and follow the Founders vision or not, I will not dishonor myself in the face of barbarism and break zellbringen. I will maintain my honor in victory...or die with it.

Stormwolf I may hate the wolves with a passion but some would be true crusader and hold to their honor, if you abide by this path I will fight along side that cause.


*edit* (Also you should have chat access, we had to approve your app)

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 28 November 2011 - 08:01 AM.


#38 Mister Freeze

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:05 AM

I'm just gonna be honest and say that the *idea* of Zellbrigen is solid, but it fails in practice. And this is coming from a Clan fanboy.

We can't afford to cut corners, roleplaying and canon consistency be damned. Remember that this is how the Clans lost the invasion: Their honor-centric combat was useless against the ruthlessly pragmatic Inner Sphere. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be penalized for "breaking Zellbrigen" when I'm being ********** by two heavy mechs.

I shoot cockpits and I leg mechs like a ************. Because it wins.

#39 Renegade

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:12 AM

View PostMr. Freeze, on 28 November 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:

We can't afford to cut corners, roleplaying and canon consistency be damned. Remember that this is how the Clans lost the invasion: Their honor-centric combat was useless against the ruthlessly pragmatic Inner Sphere. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be penalized for "breaking Zellbrigen" when I'm being ********** by two heavy mechs.


They broke Zel first. At that point, if it were designed correctly, you wouldn't be penalized.

Quote

I shoot cockpits and I leg mechs like a ************. Because it wins.


Also not a violation of Zel. :)

#40 Stormwolf

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:37 AM

View PostJaroth Winson, on 27 November 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:


Indeed. Good to see you posting around ovkhan.

I am Jaroth Winson of Clan Wolf. I stand ready to unite the Clans if the originators such as Stormwolf & Seth deem me worthy.

View PostRessk, on 27 November 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

I am Ressk of Clan Sea Fox

truth is we are a tiny clan, and moving from mwll to this does not look like a very big possibility. I cannot speak for individual members of course.

We support the formation of the clans for this game, if (and its a big if) we do not end up with the mass exodus to the clans because our stuff is just better B)

View PostUltraMek, on 27 November 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

Hello, I'm in Seth's clan. We were the the primary Jade Falcon in MW4:Mercs (JFc then CJF if anyone remembers). I don't think playing zellbrigen is really an issue. We took it upon ourselves to mostly play by (and essentially handicap ourselves) with zellbrigen in public games and closely adhere to them in league games. The leagues seemed to dictate which clans would be more than flashes in the pan, and league play can enforce Clan rules of engagement, if only because people who were really enthusiastic about being a clan (like we were) liked to role play, and zellbrigen and not legging was part of that.


Good, now I only need a 100+ more guys like you three -_-

View PostKingCobra, on 27 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

I personally dont like the idea of any Grand Counsil i dont want anyone telling me how ,where or what i can do with my clan,faction,or the players under me or beside me fighting for clan rights in this game or in any other way.And i dont want a Grand Counsil that makes decisions on this game for me in any way to the devs.MWL & NBT were reminders of what one faction can decide for all and it sucked for everyone so most left and refused to play.We dont need a few power hungry players controling all of MWO.In fact i would fight to not allow it happen as many i think would.So lets not jump to any who is going to control what and who. ;)


Players can rise and fall from their positions of power, besides, I somehow do not think that the game will implement Khan or SaKhan ranks. Any, the Grand Council primarily exists as a mechanism to achieve two things:

1. The Clans should fight like Clans, many of the more hardcore players will be rather displeased if two guys in "Vultures" offer to help him by showering his opponent with LRM's.

2. We kinda need to balance the game for the IS players, their game will be ruined if players abuse the Clan tech.

You should view it as traffic rules, there is nothing to prevent you from speeding on a road where the police never checks. Although things would get nasty if you cause a accident because of were speeding.

Think about it.

View PostColddawg, on 27 November 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

I am here representing a faction known as Red Sky in other games, and I can assure you all that nearly all of our members will adhere to a style of Zell if we are IS, and strictly to Zell if we are clan.

However, we will not hinder ourselves in what we feel is an equal fight.

That being said, we still need to see what kind of limitations the devs design into the clan tech. Historically heat has been the balance between clan and IS tech in previous MW games. What would really keep them from changing that?


Interesting, what canon Clan(s) would you guys join?

View PostSeth, on 27 November 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

If/when Clan tech is introduced, I expect the balancing factors to be cost and heat. Zell probably won't be one of those balancing factors. Restricting Clan players to Zellbrigen style fighting honestly seems unrealistic from a developers point of view. Besides, a team of Merc players having salvaged a Star of Omni-mechs from battle wouldn't be bound by the same Zell restriction.


I bet that you know from experience that the Hellbringer lives up to its name in more then one way.

You would need parts to keep your salvaged mechs in working order. Besides, those mechs would likely break down over time if the Devs follow the Avatar fluff in the original TRO 3058. And on top of that, it would be a challenge to fight dishonorable players in Clan tech mechs.

View PostCoffiNail, on 28 November 2011 - 07:14 AM, said:

This can easily be fixed with a claim button. Have a clansmen claim button that will ID that someone has claimed this mech for zellbreggen dueling If you target a mech and it IDs as claimed then you target the next one. If all mechs are seemingly engaged to not gang up will still leave you with a level of honor for participating in the said battle even if you end up not fighting someone.

But really a current target claim command is one of the only ways I see it working. Someone interferes with your duel THEY lose the honor/exp points not the warrior engaged. It can easily be done maybe a shift + T or something when you have the mech you want to challenge.


I really like this idea, I hope the Devs are reading this.

View PostRenegade, on 28 November 2011 - 07:27 AM, said:


My only concern with that depends on the reward system for the game. If you have something like Battlefield where more kills = more rewards, then the reward for adhering to honor needs to be comparable to the lost kills. Otherwise you more or less require people to break Zellbrigen to remain competitive.


There have been honor based point systems before (MW2 and MW2: GBL). Gathering plenty of honor should unlock a trial of position (against 3 AI opponents preferably). A higher rank should unlock more access to mechs.

People with low honor points (or a negative value) should be reduced to solahma status, they would go down in mech selection as follows: OmniMech > 2nd Line mech > SL era Clan refit > SL era mech > salvaged IS mech. They can work their way up the ladder again by fight honorable again.

View PostAmarus Cameron, on 28 November 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

Wether my Clan brethren will take up their honor and follow the Founders vision or not, I will not dishonor myself in the face of barbarism and break zellbringen. I will maintain my honor in victory...or die with it.

Stormwolf I may hate the wolves with a passion but some would be true crusader and hold to their honor, if you abide by this path I will fight along side that cause.


*edit* (Also you should have chat access, we had to approve your app)


Good, and thanks for the access. :)

View PostMr. Freeze, on 28 November 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'm just gonna be honest and say that the *idea* of Zellbrigen is solid, but it fails in practice. And this is coming from a Clan fanboy.

We can't afford to cut corners, roleplaying and canon consistency be damned. Remember that this is how the Clans lost the invasion: Their honor-centric combat was useless against the ruthlessly pragmatic Inner Sphere. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be penalized for "breaking Zellbrigen" when I'm being ********** by two heavy mechs.

I shoot cockpits and I leg mechs like a ************. Because it wins.


Legging and shooting cockpits is allowed like Renegade pointed out.

I'd like to expand on the claim button idea, unclaimed IS players should get a dezgra status when they have a higher combined BV value and gang up on a single Clan mech (think atleast 110 to 150% more BV). It would reduce the abuse caused by players who think that they found a loophole.

Note that this would only apply to the attacking mechs, any mechs not involved in this action would need to be claimed.


Great stuff so far people, keep it coming.

Edited by Stormwolf, 28 November 2011 - 11:42 AM.






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