65 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

This thread has an opening post so long that i have to split it up into parts. The rest are in the post down below till post #5.
I've also decided to name my tactics - Mechanical Rodent Martial Arts
M.R.M.A. for short. It's because i feel like a rodent (Skaven) when i hurry-skurry all over the place.

I've played using lights mechs since MWO opened to founders and i've discovered some unusual tactics i thought might become usefull.
In short matches (stomps) these tactics of mine are admittedly inferior to meta tactics, but in long matches they have the potential to become clearly superior.
In short if your looking for a guide on how to quickly destroy every enemy you see within seconds this is not the guide your looking for.

Also i haven't been able to make it work much in CW matches due to the gates and the dropships.
You'll see why as you read. I'll writte (skip) on stuff that isn't trully necessary for you to read.
If you're going to read all of this. Prepare yourself for a huge textwall monstrousity.

Also. English is my 2nd language so there might be some grammar or spelling mistakes.
To many "these tactics".

(skipable) Requirements of you as a player.

Spoiler

You need to have good situational awareness, instant decision making, patience, quick aiming and an unpredictable state of mind.
Patience both in the matches and to adapt to these tactics. You will die a LOT as you figure it all out and get rid of any habits you might have from meta tactics.

If you know what you will do during the next 15 seconds of a match using these tactics you're doing it wrong!!!!
I'm somewhat serious about that.

The mechs requirements for these tactics.

Spoiler

I used to think having a mech capable of doing 120 kph was the barebones minimum requirement to do all this.
I was very wrong. It can be done at lower speeds too.
My Kit Fox's can do it just as well as the Firestarter, but i have to be more thorough when relocating because of the slower speeds.
To tell you the truth my Kit Fox C averagly does about 10% more damage than my FS 9S with better KDR and it even seems to be pulling ahead with the Win/loss ratio.
ECM makes up for the slower speed.

I can also do it with my Vindicator 1AA but i only have 258 matches in it so it's too early to tell how well it does in comparison to the light mechs.

Speed limits how much damage you do with these tactics due to how far you relocate between shots.
So greater speed means better damage in most cases. You could even say speed is firerate/firepower.
It also raises your unpredictability which keeps you alive. More on that later.

Having at least one long range weapon is a huge advantage.
If you need to get close to your enemy every time you strike sooner or later an enemy will catch you on seismic sensors.

Jump Jets is a big advantage which i hereafter will refer to as JJ's.
ECM is a possibility as well. Especially if you're going to focus on the long range aspect of these tactics.

BAP is also a possibility since you cancel out ECM when your stealthing around in enemy territory so your LRM boating teammates get more opportunities for locks.

Be aware that getting a light mech with 2 ER LL or 2 ER PPC will make you far more predictable since the further away the enemy is the wider his LoS cone is.

You would have to relocate much further in order to stay out of his line of sight.
2 ER PPC weighs a lot limiting your speed somewhat in a light further limiting your damage potential.

AMS might actually be a detriment unless you switch it off only to turn it on when it's trully needed since it gives your position away.
I would use cover with a radar deprivation module instead of AMS.

I use Firestarters. Example.
FS 9S: 280XL engine, 6 points away from full armor, endo, ferro, JJ's, 3 SL, 2ML and ER LL. Radar deprivation and Seismic sensor.
ER LL and ML range weapon modules.

I sometimes exchange ER LL, 1ML and some JJ's for an ER PPC instead.

It runs hot during prolonged combat but you're meant to hit and run.
Furthermore i mostly don't use the ER PPC/ ER LL when i get close unless it's on a cold map.

Having a mech capable of hitting from any range not only helps you to better defend yourself if you run into someone, but also strangely helps you avoid damage through raising your unpredictability.

How? Because the enemy doesn't exactly know which range you'll go for next if the terrain allows you to sneak up closer to them as well as snipe.
I call such a mech a Jack of all ranges.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 13 October 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

How these tactics work?

Spoiler

Just let me say that you should look inside the spoiler button in post #5 below called -
"How is seperating from your teammates not certain death like it says in the meta tactics?"
- If you think what is written below here is a bad idea.

It's about hitting the enemy without getting hit back and making them waste time trying to find you instead of fighting your teammates.
You seperate yourself from your team and go along the sides of the map in areas that aren't often traveled.

When should you seperate yourself from the team?
Either at the very start if you're very aware of which lines most players run along to get from one place to another.
- or -
When the two teams have clashed and you know somewhat where the majority of the enemy is located.

Get on the enemies flank or behind them. Keep in mind that hitting the same enemy over and over will get more of his attention.
It might focus the damage more but instead you could move on and cause a lot of confusion.

An enemy mech might stand there many precious seconds waiting for you to attack again.
He might even try to hunt you.
He just wasted his time if you moved onwards. Especially if he is in a slowpoke assault mech.
Staying in one area to persistently kill 1 enemy will get the enemy lights on you for sure.

I'd say a 100-120 kph IS mech should not go behind enemy lines. Only on the flanks and ready to flee at a moments notice.
Preferably only clan lights at such low speeds can do this well since they got better Streak SRMs to protect themselves.

Back on subject with mechs that have higher speeds.

Shot targets once, break line of sight to your opponent so he can't see you.
Then relocate to another position.

I'm not talking about running to a building only 100 meters away and shooting at the same target again.
You need to run further.
Preferably to a position where you can shoot another enemy while out of sight of your first enemy.
Or the same enemy from an angle he can't predict you will be shooting from.
Unpredictability is the new layer of armor for a light mech.

Most players would never think that you would move half a kilometer to shot just one more time.
They rarelly believe you would take the bother to fire from a place that is 90 degrees or more different on the compass needle in comparison to your first shot even though you're 300-500 meters away.

Just stay out of their line of sight everytime you relocate as much as possible.

The further away you are the more you have to run to get around the enemy player.
Basicly your running speed might as well be your firerate since you only fire once or twice before each major relocation.

Remember to stay out of seismic sensor range when relocating at medium ranges.
At short ranges it's ok to get in cover and use your own seismic sensor to see the enemy response and then sweeping around to shoot him outside his line of sight.

Remember that once you've struck at short range you could retreat further away to strike from there.
I've seen a lot of players persistently stay at one range once they attacked at that range.
Having a flexible weapons selection in regards to range helps you stay unpredictable.

Also remember that pressing R to get information on the enemy that others are not targeting takes time.
Time in which you're exposed to the enemy looking at them.
If you want information then it's preferable to get that info from mechs that are targeted by others long before you come out of cover to take your shot.

An example of how these tactics can be pulled off on 3 different maps and everything.

Spoiler

Sorry but i don't know anything about how to make a video or editing.
So we will have to make do with a map and windows paint.
Keep in mind that this following example is mostly to show how far you have to relocate after every shot to stay at least somewhat unpredictable.

Let's look at a hypotetical situation. Here is a map of Canyon Network.


I'm thinking about my Jack of all ranges Firestarter which i mentioned above in this example
It's skirmish mode so ignore those stars representing bases please.

The enemies are red dots. Allies blue. Purple arrows shows where their general line of sight/focus is.
Numbers in pink is to give enemies numbers for easier reference.
Yellow lines shows where you generaly move. Green movement indicate somewhat risky moves.
Orange is for lines of retreat if something goes wrong. I'll talk about retreats and feints to throw the enemy of your trail later.

Many will probably think: "There is no way a light won't have hunted you down long before you've done all this and the LRM rain would have killed you."

This is true to a certain point. There are most certainly risks. But nothing is certain.
I've played this way for almost since the very first time i played on the Canyon Network map and it worked out rather well.
Do i use this exact movement pattern? No. But it shows how far you have to move in order to stay rather unpredictable and ahead of the enemy.

C3C is the Center hill group. C3L is the 2 guys on the border of C3 and C2 etc.

Keep in mind that taking all those risky moves makes you spend more time in one area.
The more of these risks you take the more likely you will receive the attention of an enemy light or a the horror that is a Clan mech with loads of Streak SRMs or get too much attention in general.

The match has gone for long enough in this example that you know at least somewhat where the majority of the enemies are when you start out.
Keep in mind that these dots are just to show the general areas the players stay in.
You run from C5 through D5, D4 and E4 using the wall at your right to prevent line of sight to the any enemy appearing on your right.
You cycle through the enemies with R to read their weapons/damage info on the enemy while underway.

You could take a small risk at D4 to shoot at the group on the C3Center hill. I would shoot nr.1 walking towards you once.
You could also try another shot from the position on the green line. Nr.2 is a likely target.
But make certain you stay out of line of sight from nr.1 whom you shot first.

Move onwards towards E4.
Slow down briefly to look for enemies at the E4/E3 border if you think it's necessary.
Run over the hill at E3 using JJ's and run up to D3 hill (this is not of course your only option for where you could shoot from).
You could take a risk and shoot from the places indicated by the green lines.
But remember that shooting once is ok. Multiple shots is always risk.

Move on to E3 to D3. Get into position on top of the hill in D3. This place covers you from LoS (Line of Sight) on your sides.
If possible shoot an enemy that the others don't have a line of sight to.
This means everyone except the guy you shot are less likely to know where you are.
(unless they are active with their comms. They take longer to respond regardless.)

Now you got multiple possibilities. I would take the route to the valley between C3/C4 to unleash an alpha strike for sure unless the guys on the C3 hill are fast mechs since you would have to get back behind the D3 hill before they can shoot you.
If something goes wrong you got 2 lines of retreat marked in orange.
If you go towards your allies they can cover you which might make the enemy reluctant to pursue.
A possible opportunity there to shoot someone at B3 if you go that way.
I'd go back towards D3 though personally.

The 2 shoots on the left of the hill closest to the center gives you a very nice firing long range shot at enemy nr.3 in C3 Left.
But i would not take anymore than 2 of these opportunity shots. And preferably none of them against the same enemy.
Too risky and you spend too much time in one area.

But let's say everything worked out fine. You go from D3 towards D2. Opportunity in green there and come back the same way.
I'd definitly go there since you could shoot both the C3L and C3C groups once each.
You shoot at C3L first and then the C3C. If you do it right neither one will be able to respond before you break line of sight to them.
Retreat the same way you came.

Now you got a choice. By the time you have done all this the battlefield is likely to have changed a lot depending on how much time you used on those opportunity attacks.

You could go back following the black line.You might want to look towards the C3C group to check if you can get a shot from the E3 hill.
Then onwards towards the E4 area and maybe go to D4 to take a shot. Then you figure out the rest from there.
If the enemy was no more in the area between A3 and B3 you could go flanking there for example.

-Or-

-You could go to D2 with a random potshot along the way if you want. Head to C2 shooting position. Shoot.
Relocate towards the B2 area. Do your stuff there and retreat back the way you came.
Unless the enemy is no longer in the A3/B3 area or just plain dead.

I wouldn't take any timeconsuming random potshots during this retreat if you went back C2 to D2.
This last part is to keep out of the clutches of the enemy since you might have gotten a lot of their attention at this point.
By now you can probably somewhat see how far you must relocate each time you get in position.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

I'll do another of these maps as an example. Alpine Peaks.

Spoiler

I'll show how you can take advantage from both sides of the map. First from the lower spawnpoints which is L6/L7, K9/L9 and J11.

According to the Meta the advantage when it comes to getting on the central mountain first lies with the team in the lower spawnpoints on this map.

The enemy team tends to go to where G8/G9/H8/H9 corners meet and G9/F9/F10 area.
These are the most often used siege positions. A and B.

Sometimes i've seen them go to behind the hills at H7 but it's more rare. I'll call it C.

You can go to the smaller hill behind J7 or the bigger one at I6/I7 if your feeling brave.
From either of these points you can snipe at the slowest enemy mechs coming from their G4 spawnpoint.
Fairly effective first blood strike if you have some ranged weapon with range module and range extending quirk.

Just shift your position often like in Canyon Network.
I will not put up individual enemies here since the map is so huge.

If they try to come close in on you at this point run away. They are most likely just wasting their time since the distance is so great.
If they do chase you that's a good thing since not all their forces will arrive to lay siege to the central mountain at the same time.

If they leave you alone and go to lay siege that's just playing right into your hands.
It's time to play mountaingoat simulator. You need JJ's for that.

If you don't have JJ's go to the hills at H7 and the border between H7/H8 and snipe at A from there. Light blue line.
With JJ's you can go up i8 and use them to get yourself along the ledges of the cliff to fire at the enemy at A from different angles.

You also have good line of sight to those that get to the i9 slopes of the mountain.
I use 3-4 JJ's. 1 JJ might not give you enough fuel for this.

You could go to H7 or even G7 sometimes to keep yourself moving more.
If you stop every now and then you can use seismic sensors to check if someone has crossed from A to climb the hill and chase you away.

Most don't want to chase you away from here since they have to cross open the ground at H8 to do so.
If they do so anyways retreat down the cliff and hide at J9, J7 or i6. You could also go towards H7 while hugging the cliff side if the pursuer seems slow.

Pursuer would have to fire downwards at an extreme angle which will impede their aim somewhat.

I'll explain how it's possible to deal with being spawned on the other side of the map now.
I'll use green and orange lines to show you where to go.

These long travels seems too be waaay too long so you don't do much damage at start.

This is why you got that powerfull bigblock engine in your mech for.
RUN like your ass is on fire and somebody is chasing after you with a bottle of gasoline trying to put out the fire.

I tend to do less damage on this map but i get in less trouble.
I believe other players who're much better at keeping a target lock can make this a shooting gallery for LRM boats.

Imagine what a TAG or NARC can do from H11 or at i8.

At the Green routes you end up at i11/H11 mountain. From here you can shot and spot the enemy in the back as they hide from your teammates at A and B.
Just remember to break line of sight to the enemy after one shot and go to a place where the first enemy can't see you but you can snipe at other targets.

I've put up a line in red for my favorite sniping positions.

You could also snipe from the spot i've marked with a red cross at H12 if you got a weapon with enough range.

I drew a black line where the mountain defenders usualy make their stand.
You also have a very good position if some of them hide in the base at G10\G11 to hold of your allies at siege position B.

The Orange route is kinda old and i haven't used it in a while. But it works fine though since Meta hasn't changed any since i activly used it.
Here you can strike from J11 or go up to i11\H11. Sometimes the enemy sends someone to rip you out of the nest.

Often you see them leaving the central mountain. If that happens you can snipe them from the positions marked with light blue crosses, set up an ambush or retreat along the green route to siege position B.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Next is the Terra Therma map. This is almost as difficult for me to deal with as Forest Colony.

Spoiler

Even though i use only energy weapons in my Firestarters the heat matters surprisingly little since i only strike once anyways.

The problem lies in that there are very few hills to make use of for cover.
You round a corner and have to face what's on the other side. Another thing is that if i tricking enemies to look the other way is near impossible due to the open grounds between the volcanoes.

Current meta is to rush to the center, hope your team is first and then hold or besiege the crater.
ECM mechs are clearly the better choice on this map i think.

I've divided the map into 3 parts. The Crater, the inner and the outer travel rings.
Inner travel ring in orange and the outer travel ring in green.

The orange line shows places that can be dangerous and the green less dangerous.
But the enemy could be anywhere as sooner or later you might piss the enemy off with your constant harrassing attacks.

You travel here and there using the outer ring and then strike at the enemy whether they are inside the crater or besieging your teammates inside.
If you activly use mics time your strike with your teammates.
For example if the enemy is defending the crater entrances at the 2 red crosses i marked on the map.

Strike from the other 2 entrances right into their backsides and tell your teammates that the enemy might be distracted for a few seconds.
That could be their time to charge. It might even be worth it to stick around for more than one shot to make the enemy pay more attention to you rather than your teammates.

If your team is defending the crater just cause havoc outside from the outer traveling ring.
Occasionally striking at closer ranges when you get the opportunity to do so.
You be surprised how much rear armor you can peel off the mechs that stay further back.

As for the other maps. I would say i don't want to show all my secrets, but to be honest there isn't much more to tell since the other maps tend to be more unpredictable.

It's mostly about safer travel routes in those and that is mostly along the outer edges of the map on almost all maps.

The possible exception to that would be the Mining Collective. There are so many ways to keep out of sight on that map if you got JJ's that it's downright ridicilous.


Just stick to the basics i've shown you.
-Shot once then relocate. Sometimes quite far.
-Staying in the same area will get you in trouble.
-Mind line of sight to your previous targets since they are likely annoyed with you.
-Striking the same target over and over might not be a good idea.
-Striking at the same range all the time might not be a good idea either.
-Feints. I admit i've gotten sloppy with feints lately. I only do them when i'm under pressure.
-Staying near the majority of your teammates gets you the same amount of attention they get.

Sometimes you have to be with them for brief periods to shake off pursuit though.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

(skip if you believe me) How is seperating from your teammates not certain death like it says in the meta tactics?

Spoiler

Please think about these facts which comes from staying near your teammates in a light mech (any mech actually)-

-Your team is pretty much standing in a firing line while taking advantage of cover.
Or advancing all togheter.
Regardless of whether your whole team is moving or staying in one area almost all of the enemy is looking in their direction.

-The enemies are all looking at the area your teammates are in which means everytime you go out of cover to shoot the enemy is probably already looking in your direction too.

-Assault mechs and the other big guys receive the most attention yes. But that does not mean light mechs are ignored.

-If you have a choice as a light mech pilot which would you rather do?

Would you rather be in front of the enemy alongside your teammates and risk getting enemy attention -or- be outside the line of sight of the majority of the enemies with smaller risk of return fire.

When you seperate from your teammates there is always a risk you might run into an enemy mech and the LRM could start raining down.

But which risk is greater?

Staying with your teammates and almost certainly receiving enemy attention sooner rather than later - or - being alone or alongside 1 teammate who comes with you and meeting an enemy.

It's all up to you to decide which risk is greater.

(Skippable for those who don't want to get close. Or who just know tricks like that already.)
Feints and tricks to make the enemy think you go one way when in reality you didn't.

Spoiler

These feints are what made me develop these tactics about 2 years ago. I was fondly called "that loon in a Jenner" for it.

There is a feint that is actually more effective without a radar deprivation module.
You're on a hill and you just shot an enemy. He is pissed and turns towards you.
You've made a point of positioning yourself so that you run forwards to break line of sight rather than backwards.

Preferably it should look like your running towards another obviously good spot to shot from.
But as soon as you're certain line of sight and the enemy lock is truly broken you turn around and go in another direction.

I count to 5 to make certain the lock is broken before changing direction.
Maybe run in the completly opposite direction from how you started.

The reason it is more effective without the radar deprivation module is because he is quite likely to have a lock on you and he can see you running in one direction with it.

This works best at medium ranges a little beyond 250 meters since that is the range of the advanced seismic sensor.
The reason for this is you won't have to run so far to get on into his blind spot.

Now the enemy is most likely looking towards where he believes you will pop out of cover.
But you're now on his flank or even better his rear.

Do not do this more than twice in a row on the same enemy. Preferably only once.

You can also use this feint if you need to retreat although it is highly dependant on the local terrain.
You could try to "accidentaly" briefly come into their line of sight going in one direction only turn in a different direction once your out of sight again.

Whenever you retreat do so in a random zigzag pattern or you will get shot to bits by big guns really fast.
If you have arms on your mech concider torso twisting to return fire as you retreat while zigzaging.
It's a skill i've yet to properly master since i see about half my shots go wild.

Next trick.
There is an slow enemy standing next to a building or hill and your standing closely behind him.
There should also be something else nearby that you can use for cover in case you have to retreat and you should be alone with the enemy.

If the enemy is an assault mech without arms you can do this from the flank.
Players that obviously have their arms locked and keep them that way can also be attacked from the flank.
You shoot the enemy in the back at close range.

He turns towards you after you shoot him and you got 2 alternatives.
Depending on which alternative you want you should position your legs before you let off the first shot.

1: Shoot once more into his front before he aims if you got some rapidly firing weapon.
Don't take unecessary risks if you believe you can't get off this 2nd shot before he shoots you.
Run behind the nearby building/hill till line of sight breaks and stop.

2: Run past him making certain to pass by his backside. Shoot him again.
You can manipulate which way he turns by standing a bit to the side of him when taking the first shot.
Run behind cover that breaks line of sight and stop.

You need Radar Deprivation module if you give him enough time to get a lock. Especially if you chose alternative 2.
Now he will either stand still waiting for you to break cover or try to chase you. Watch what he does with your seismic sensor.

If he stands still concider retreating while making certain he doesn't get LoS on your retreating back if he decides to move after all.
If he chases you run around the cover to shoot him once more in the back.

Remember his seismic sensor doesn't work while he is moving and he is to slow to get around the cover before you do.
Now you can repeat this maneuver or move onwards to strike another target.

If he you got JJ's and it's a hill you're using for cover and he stays close to it there is another alternative.
Buildings don't work so well for this last alternative.

You could run over the hill jump as soon as you get at the top of the hill.
Jumping over him while turning around in midair and shooting him again as you land.

If you can shoot just before you jump that's perfect too since he is likely to start turning towards the hill then when you're already on the way over his head.
Run past him making certain to once more pass behind him rather than in front. Get back behind cover.

If he moves away from the cover run away while making certain to keep the cover between him and you.
At that time he is most likely going backwards while keeping the cover in sight. Then he will circle around or call for help.

(skipable)But what results can we expect from these tactics?

Spoiler

I played 208 matches recently to test it's damage potential.

Remark the fact that i do not post these results to brag, but to tell you something about what you can expect once you get used to these tactics.

As the fool i was however i included Forest Colony matches in the test. Too narrow and too few routes.
That map has almost no chance of getting on the enemy flank or behind them without being noticed.

Stick to the Meta on Forest Colony people. At least untill the enemy has their numbers thinned to about half and maybe more.
Strangely a few of my best matches during the test was on that map too.....weird.

In any case here are the results.
28 matches with 60-200 damage. About half of these were matches that ended very early so i didn't have time to do so much damage. Mostly 150-180.
Others were just plain disasters.

62 matches with 200-300 damage. You pretty much pull your own weight as a light mech with this much i think.
These too have many short matches among them.

84 matches with 300-500 damage. It's mostly in the 350 to just below 500 range.
26 matches with 500-700 damage.
6 with +700 damage and 2 with +900 damage.

I currently got a KDR of 1.36. Yup.
There isn't much kill potential in these tactics because it's hit and run all the time.

I know there are guys out there who do more damage. Guys that cause outright fear in the enemy with just their reputation.

But do they cause so much confusion?
Which is also worth something since enemies tend to stand there waiting for me to strike once more, but i've moved onwards.

In any case these tactics tend to do less damage per minute than the meta tactics since i move around so much.
So short matches makes for small damage especially since i use about 1 minute on big maps to get to my first position.

It tends to get faster after that though.

Furthermore i had one match where i did 277 damage, but didn't suffer a single laser scratch or bump in return.
If i it was one of you with 2 ER LL or 2 ER PPC you would have doubled that.

Because it was all at 450-600 meter range with only a single ER LL and 2ML with 317 meter range after quirks and range modules.
Imagine doing over 500 damage with not a single scratch. Now that would have been truly impressive.

Another match where i did around 450 damage and only got hit by 1 PPC in return.

Many of my matches end with me having +80% of my mechs health left.
This is what i'm talking about. The ability to hit without being hit in return.

But did i have any matches that were outright disasters? Of course i did.
Ran into many Firestarters with 8 SPL's.
Got overeager plenty of times and shot twice when i should have just relocated after the first shot.
Or just got plain unlucky and came out of cover right in front of a Gauss Jager, StreakBoat or a whole enemy lance that moved to flank us.

I'm ashamed with one of my 900 matches actually. I freaked out by the pressure i felt to win for my team.
I won but....i just wasted 30 secs of their time being freaked out by a near death Atlas with only 2 MPLs left.

Was tempted to talk about my favorite match in the test, but i won't unless asked to since i don't want to brag.
Was an excellent example though.

My tactics are not flawless neither am i. If i ever claim to be flawless i might need serious medication.

Needless to say i don't have 208 screenshots of all the damage numbers. Only the best numbers i'm afraid.
I doubt you want to look through 208 screenshots anyways.

Did you read all that? If you did you have my sympathies. I spent around 12 hours to make this guide so i hope it's helpfull.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 07 April 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

I'm reserving this post since i might do something nutty and decide to go into further analysis of all the other maps.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 06 April 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

Wow, well done. I can tell you put a lot of time and effort into this, and your perspective is appreciated!

I do love piloting light mechs solely for the tactics you are outlining - meta isn't my game, but harassment and misdirection can be a whole lot of fun!

Again, thanks for your insight!

[Durant Carlyle]

Nice. I too run lights the vast majority of the time. I have seven Locusts (no ECM), three Commandos (no ECM), three Mist Lynxes (no ECM), one Kit Fox (stripped), six Spiders (one ECM), one Adder (stripped), five Jenners, and seven Panthers (had to have one for each Faction paint job lol).

Speaking of non-meta, I set up all of my lights so that they are BattleTech legal (taking into account the doubled armor, of course). That means switching engines so that the rating is a multiple of the 'Mech tonnage. So I run 'Mechs that aren't as speedy as the min-maxed builds. I don't run the dual-ERLL or dual-PPC/ERPPC builds -- hell, none of my Panthers has even one PPC/ERPPC, let alone two.

[Spleenslitta]

stealthraccoon, on 06 April 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Wow, well done. I can tell you put a lot of time and effort into this, and your perspective is appreciated!

I do love piloting light mechs solely for the tactics you are outlining - meta isn't my game, but harassment and misdirection can be a whole lot of fun!

Again, thanks for your insight!

That's another thing i like about harassment and misdirection tactics as you so aptly named them.
It's fun. It demands that you use your brain.

Meta tactics feels like "Do this. Do that. No need to think much because the enemy and you know what you're supposed to do." after playing like that for awhile.
I've tried. Couldn't do it for long. The rushes of adrenaline are few when playing meta.

Durant Carlyle, on 06 April 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Nice. I too run lights the vast majority of the time. I have seven Locusts (no ECM), three Commandos (no ECM), three Mist Lynxes (no ECM), one Kit Fox (stripped), six Spiders (one ECM), one Adder (stripped), five Jenners, and seven Panthers (had to have one for each Faction paint job lol).

Speaking of non-meta, I set up all of my lights so that they are BattleTech legal (taking into account the doubled armor, of course). That means switching engines so that the rating is a multiple of the 'Mech tonnage. So I run 'Mechs that aren't as speedy as the min-maxed builds. I don't run the dual-ERLL or dual-PPC/ERPPC builds -- hell, none of my Panthers has even one PPC/ERPPC, let alone two.

Wow. That's quite a collection. See you got Commando's. Started out with those when i started in MWO.
Still get nostalgic whenever i see the single Commando i do have in the garage.

Just remembered that i should have put "guide, light mech" in the tags.
Oh well....too late now. I'll add some minor stuff to the guide while i'm here.

[Durant Carlyle]

I'm looking forward to the Arctic Cheetah. Initially I was afraid of what it would look like based on the TRO art, but they seem to have made it look a hell of a lot better. Have to wait on the final product to be sure, of course.

I've loved piloting lights since I got in the game in August 2012. Of course back then they were a bit more effective. My Founder Jenner still holds a special place in my heart.

I like playing the harasser, the dive-bomber, the back-stabber, and just generally mixing it up with distracted opponents. I've always hated playing peek-a-boo and I suck at it. If it looks like a match is going to devolve into a long, boring hiding session on both sides, I usually circle around to find a lone opponent and then charge in to have some close-combat fun until my 'Mech is blown out from under me.

[Spleenslitta]

Durant Carlyle, on 07 April 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm looking forward to the Arctic Cheetah. Initially I was afraid of what it would look like based on the TRO art, but they seem to have made it look a hell of a lot better. Have to wait on the final product to be sure, of course.

I've loved piloting lights since I got in the game in August 2012. Of course back then they were a bit more effective. My Founder Jenner still holds a special place in my heart.

I like playing the harasser, the dive-bomber, the back-stabber, and just generally mixing it up with distracted opponents. I've always hated playing peek-a-boo and I suck at it. If it looks like a match is going to devolve into a long, boring hiding session on both sides, I usually circle around to find a lone opponent and then charge in to have some close-combat fun until my 'Mech is blown out from under me.

There are some fine light mechs coming in the future i'm sure. But i'm just dissapointed i won't get my Firebee.
It's like a Commando with JJ's who's on steroids while it's pumping iron like you wouldn't believe.

As for the peek-a-boo part. Yup me too.
Whenever i'm on Forest Colony i actually go around wishing everyone would get into a huge brawl so i can abandon that peeking stuff.
Fewer enemies mean more opportunities to flank after all.

I've played CW less than 10 times. I hated it from the very start. It's nothing more than slugging matches.
Can't flank at all because of dropships with reinforcements, gates and the cramped space we fight in when we get inside the gate.
Everybody peeks and do nothing more till they get past the gate even then it's almost the same thing.

[InspectorG]

Good stuff!

Anymore i tend to use my lights initially as fire support for Assualts in the opening of a match.
Then once battle lines(or blobs) formed, ill look for any of the following:

1. Flanking opportunities. If i can get a nice angle on an enemy that is engaged already, i get a free trade. If i can time their cooldown, i can usually get another trade after that.

2. Lone slow mechs, usually LRM boats. Giveaway weekend events bring these fools out. They usually have XL engines that make my job easier. Follow the trail of rain to the back of the map, these guys usually dont move much.

3. Easy trades - in Puglandia. Team drops i have to be more conservative. Wait till an enemy is already firing at someone. They usually wont shoot you at the same time. Just keep an eye out for his friends...
Also look for crazy angle shots ridgehump, cornerpeek, diagonally down over a ramp, under terrain, get creative.

Timing your trades.
Dont do the whole 'he shoots, then you, then he, then you....' thats gonna lead to lost armor.
2 peeks then relocate, 1 peek only if you think he is on to you or has friends.
You cannot afford to be predictable.

Steering a Whale.
If you get behind a slow assault in the rear or flank you need to separate him from his group.
How?
This wont work vs decent pilots...so it should work often.
Shoot the LEG nearest his team. Dont let him see you or your beam.
If you are short on time hit the R-ST nearest his team.

After looking around for you, he may run away from his team. Great!

Whale riding.
I used to do this in my Kitfox when i was playing for lols.
JJ up onto an assault and shoot down after you unlock your arms.
No arms or JJ, then dont try this.
Only thing that will stop you is his teammates or a low overhang.

BASIC RULES for light piloting
1. If its a fair fight, you messed up.
2. If they saw you, you messed up.
3. If you were the best target and its not late match, you messed up.

GL, and get used to dying.

[PaeuxP22]

InspectorG, on 07 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

GL, and get used to dying.

This.

Lost track of the number of times I've been jogging along in a Locust and suddenly - Dead - St gone from a dual gauss jager you don't even have time to see on radar.

That being said I will forever maintain that when they go well lights are the most fun you can have. They are about more polarised than other mechs. Jump in a heavy and you can kinda guess what you'll score at the end. In a light I've had 1000 dmg matches and I've had 1 dmg matches.

[IraqiWalker]

This is a great guide. As a long time light mech fanatic myself, I can vouch for these tactics.

EDIT: This thread deserves to be pinned.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 June 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[Alardus]

Light and medium mechs should be fighting together vs other light or medium mechs, or fire supporting heavier mechs, imo. If you're a slow light or medium, the chassis is probably giving up speed for more armor or more bite, especially at range. I like the SRMmando.

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

Edited by Alardus, 12 June 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Alardus, on 12 June 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Light and medium mechs should be fighting together vs other light or medium mechs, or fire supporting heavier mechs, imo. If you're a slow light or medium, the chassis is probably giving up speed for more armor or more bite, especially at range. I like the SRMmando.

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

This is true to a certain extent just like i said in my original posts. But the results i showed in post #5 do not lie.
Further more i have improved since back when i made this guide.
Now i can do this in a 110 kph Vindicator and my Kit Fox is actually outperforming my Firestarters when i use these tactics despite the lower speed.
Kit Fox does averagly does 10% more damage than my Firestarters. I've played over 1K matches with both chassis so the stats are very accurate.
My Kit Fox has better KDR and it seems it's starting to pull ahead in the win/loss stat too.

It works but you need good situational awareness and even better instant decision making skills.
Please do not dismiss what you haven't tried. It's the same as saying you will never like the taste of apples even though you've never bitten into one before.

[Alardus]

I'm not dismissing something you find works.

[Spleenslitta]

Oh....so that's Mailin. Been so long since i made this guide i'd entirelly forgotten about you. Sorry.

Alardus, on 12 June 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm not dismissing something you find works.

Ok. My missunderstanding then. It's this sentence i looked at....

Typically what happens is that any shots you fire from oblique or flanking angles will draw attention anyway, and since you're alone, you're likely to get swarmed by at least 2 lights.

In any case it's partially true. What's important to avoid this is the stuff in post 2# in the first spoiler button and the 2nd spoiler button in post 5# .
Fool the enemy into looking for you were you ain't. Make them think you go in one direction but go somewhere completly different is very common.

It's not only about the lines of sight the enemy has to you, but also each other. I've refined this part more since i made this guide so it's not included in the guide.
If enemy nr. 2-3-4 do not see the shot that hits enemy nr.1 their response will be slow even if they are very activly communicating through mics.
If they do not communicate at all like PuG's only the enemy nr.1 will know of your presence and since this is about getting into cover after 1-2 shots he is unlikely to be able to respond at all before your behind cover.

Shoot but do not get shoot in return and relocate often and far. This tends to keep you out of the clutches of light mechs...of course it doesn't always succeed.

Whoops....got work tomorrow. Gotta go sleep. It's far past midnight here. But after that i got 8 days of short vacation.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 12 June 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[ProfessorD]

So, I'm reading this trying to figure out what the "non-meta" part is, and taking notes as I go.

On pilot skill: "good situational awareness, instant decision making, patience, quick aiming"
Meta.

On planning: "If you know what you will do during the next 15 seconds of a match using these tactics you're doing it wrong!"
Check, not meta.
I'm not sure what this means yet, though.

On speed: "120kph as a barebones minimum...i prefer about 140 kph or above"
Meta.

On the usefulness of speed: "greater speed means better damage ... speed ... keeps you alive"
This is just plain true, not really meta or non-meta.

On JJ: "Jump Jets is a big advantage"
Meta.

On radar deprivation: "use cover with a radar deprivation module"
Meta.

Build example: "FS 9S [sic]: 280XL engine, 6 points away from full armor, endo, ferro, JJ's, ... Radar deprivation and Seismic sensor."
Meta so far,

The weapon set from the build example: "... 3 SL, 2ML and ER LL. ..."
Check, not meta. Specifically, this is non-meta of the "have a weapon for every possible engagement range" variety.

On engagement technique with that weapon set: "i mostly don't use the ER PPC/ ER LL when i get close unless it's on a cold map."
See, here, we start running into issues with the community's colloquial definition of "meta". Given that we must use the weapon set described above, this is an optimal engagement technique, because the long range weapons do less damage per unit heat than short range weapons. So, once we get past the weapon set, this becomes a "meta" technique.
I think the collective intelligence of the community and the precision of our discussions would improve a lot if we discussed optimization instead of "the meta". "the meta" is just optimization of builds and combat techniques under a certain set of assumptions and constraints.

On broader engagement technique: "Having a mech capable of hitting from any range not only helps you to better defend yourself if you run into someone, but also strangely helps you avoid damage through raising your unpredictability."
Check, not meta.
Also wrong, though. When an enemy FS9-A finds you in the FS9-S you described above, you're going to lose badly.

On trading fire: "hitting the enemy without getting hit back"
Meta. Totally meta.

On separation from the team: "When should you seperate yourself from the team? Either at the very start if you're very aware of which lines most players run along to get from one place to another. - or - When the two teams have clashed and you know somewhat where the majority of the enemy is located."
Meta. Why wouldn't it be? If you get this right, it's a perfectly smart way to play your fast lights.

On exposure: "stay out of their line of sight everytime you relocate"
Meta.

I appreciate this post a lot; it's a great read for a new light pilot that will be playing a peek-and-poke style in the solo queue. Describing it all as being non-meta and "get rid of any habits you might have from meta tactics" represents an incorrectly narrow view of how light mech "meta" works, though. The techniques in this thread are mostly very different from the "meta" techniques for the SPL FS9-A, but this post is actually a great lesson on how to use the recently very meta large laser RVN-2X effectively.

Certainly, you shouldn't use optimal Raven tactics in a Firestarter. That would be non-meta, because it would just suck. Using optimal tactics in an optimal large laser Raven build, though? Totally meta, and largely consistent with the tactics described in this post.

Edited by ProfessorD, 12 June 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Alardus]

I don't know if you can really call good tactics meta. Attacking from the opposite side of which the enemy's gun barrels are pointed is a tactic that is 100% legitimate in every game.

I think meta for OP means more along the lines of not having to be an ML spam bot going 160 kph. On the other hand, slow lights are completely anti-meta, and he's not encouraging the smart use of them. I would encourage the smart use of them (not bashing op at all, hes got valid points). They have the drawbacks of being light in terms of lower firepower and armor that you would expect. They're not going to slugfest directly for being slower, but they're not going to flank, either. They're going to harass or supplement. I think its totally okay to choose slower lights or mediums, provided you have an understanding of good tactics to employ them well.

Edited by Alardus, 13 June 2015 - 12:07 AM.