173 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Apparently, Resistance pack 2 is on its way and will be available for sale May 1st. I guess PGI will follow its winning recipe of 4 mechs + 1 loyalty mech, available for 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 dollars. (Edited)

I'm not going to ask anyone to buy or tell anyone not to buy, but I would just like to point out that this is the best possible time to vote with your wallet. If you want to send a message to PGI, I think this is the best time. Because this is the moment when a lot of people make the decision whether or not to buy, and this is the moment when PGI is paying close attention.

If you buy, I think this is the best time to tweet PGI and tell them that you're buying their product, and why. And if you don't buy, I think this is the best time to tweet PGI and tell them why you're not buying.

The reason I bring this up, is because there's some discontent on the forum. Granted, there's always some discontent and the actual source of discontent varies a little bit over time, but it seems to me that more and more people are starting to become aware of the decline in graphics and sound. I'm talking about...

• Low quality mech textures (e.g. camo patterns)
  
• Ugly damage textures
  
• Removing inverse kinematics (mechs matching the angle of their feet with the terrain)
  
• Less dramatic visual effects for death (e.g. less glowing metal, less visible ammo explosions)
  
• No working cockpit screens (Never saw them. Removed in CB, I'm told)
  
• Missiles with spiralling flight paths
  
• The changes from dynamic geometry. The CPLT used to look like this. Now it looks like this. And don't get me started on the CTF or CN9 or Jagermech. Just check out this thread.
  
• The changes to sound effects, many of which were quite unpopular. Especially the ballistics sounds, but many people feel that old PPC and SRM/LRM sounds were also better.
  
• Atlas glowing eyes.

And that's just graphics and sound. I'm not talking about any of the other stuff that people miss from CB. But I'm sure you know the stuff that would go on that list too. Personally, I would like to see PGI fix some old nagging issues before we march on to CW phase 3 and 4. You may agree with those issues, or you may be more concerned about other things entirely.


I'm not starting this thread just as a random weekly rant (although that would be pretty cool). As someone who has spent hundreds of dollars on MWO, I encourage everyone to keep buying stuff if you're happy with the product and/or want to show your appreciation of what PGI is doing with MWO. I'm not going to talk anyone out of buying Resistance Pack 2. And as someone who got into the game relatively early, it's not a big deal for me personally if I'm skipping a mech pack or two, but I understand that the early grab deals are great value for money for new players. So I'm not here to talk anyone out of anything.

I am starting this thread because there's a lot of people expressing discontent about certain elements in MWO that are actually declining (especially graphics and sound) instead of progressing, and that's something PGI doesn't seem to take seriously. So if you are truly concerned about those issues, I encourage you to use this special moment in time to vote with your wallet. Don't just write some sarcastic posts about it on the forum. Walk the walk.

And if you really want to send a message, maybe start some kind of viral Twitter hashtag. Like #atlasglowingeyes or #theybrokemywang.

TL;DR: The moment PGI comes out with a new mech pack, it's kind of a big deal. It's a good time to either show your support or to send a message about stuff you're not happy with.

Check out this thread for tips on how to get Russ' attention on Twitter.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 17 April 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I'd be ok to see that bullet point list as part of the bonus content instead of premium time, camo and colours.

[Alistair Winter]

MoonUnitBeta, on 17 April 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'd be ok to see that bullet point list as part of the bonus content instead of premium time, camo and colours.

Well, I'd have a hard time with that choice. Because I'd feel a bit like I was being milked beyond the point of decency.

But I would be more comfortable if PGI had public stretchgoals for each mech pack, showing their motivation to fix issues that are important to the fans. Like "If 10,000 people buy this mech pack, we can add ambient sounds and a soundtrack, or bring back cockpit monitors for people with Very High graphics setting." or "If 15,000 people buy this mech pack, we can revisit the dynamic geometry for these four mechs, or finish our work on destructible trees and traffic lights."

Give the players some realistic options within a certain budget, let the players vote, and then leave it to the players to reach those stretch goals.

Even this may make a lot of players uncomfortable, because they feel it's unreasonable that they bought a Founder mech pack and then the product they were happy with in CB gradually got worse. So they're not happy that they have to "buy back" the Atlas' glowing eyes, in a sense.

It's all academic anyway, since I think it's going to take a long time before PGI actually takes the issue of graphics and sound seriously. Hence my decision not to buy, even though I really want the rumoured Wolfhound and Mauler, ever since I saw the Battletech cartoon as a kid.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Your list is of very minor issues that you would put before the continuation of the game itself. Sure I want certain problems fixed and new modes in place, but telling the others not to support pgi is akin to killing 1 dev to make 2 others work harder. All that practice will do is bring them down faster. Its f2p, ante up if u love btech cause this is the end of the line for the IP. If success is longlasting, theres hope down the road, if the players collapse it, its on you. As always I'm willing to donate at the low level, i owe the devs that much for my 10hrs a week.

[CDLord HHGD]

Can't fix things if there is no money. Will have to see what mechs there are (fast running out of the ones I like). As soon as I can, I plan to buy Wave III. Been on financial freeze while I purchase a new house, but that should free up come May. PGI has my support, just for bringing this game at all.... And I still attest, this is the best damn artwork and in-game models of any battletech game. Maybe I'm just easy to please.....

[Soy]

Geist Null, on 17 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Your list is of very minor issues that you would put before the continuation of the game itself. Sure I want certain problems fixed and new modes in place, but telling the others not to support pgi is akin to killing 1 dev to make 2 others work harder. All that practice will do is bring them down faster. Its f2p, ante up if u love btech cause this is the end of the line for the IP. If success is longlasting, theres hope down the road, if the players collapse it, its on you. As always I'm willing to donate at the low level, i owe the devs that much for my 10hrs a week.

This dudes legit as ****, the rest of yall mongos need to take notes.

[Alistair Winter]

Geist Null, on 17 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Your list is of very minor issues that you would put before the continuation of the game itself. Sure I want certain problems fixed and new modes in place, but telling the others not to support pgi is akin to killing 1 dev to make 2 others work harder.

Well, I would like to point out that I'm not telling others not to support. I'm just saying this is a good time to either show your support or to make a point of not supporting. Obviously I have an agenda, but ultimately the decision is in people's own hands.

Geist Null, on 17 April 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

All that practice will do is bring them down faster. Its f2p, ante up if u love btech cause this is the end of the line for the IP. If success is longlasting, theres hope down the road, if the players collapse it, its on you. As always I'm willing to donate at the low level, i owe the devs that much for my 10hrs a week.

I have made that very argument a number of times on this forum. For my part, assuming an individual has a good disposable income and full control over it, I would say that it's better to be more active and conscious the way one spends the money. I think it makes more sense, as a faceless consumer, to spend a lot of money at specific times to show both that you appreciate the product (e.g. a mech pack) but also that you like way the game is headed. If you spend 200 dollars in a period of two years, I think it's more effective to pay big when things are going well and to not pay when they're making the wrong moves, instead of just constantly paying a stream of money to support the game.

Especially since PGI is unaware of what goes on in the forum and Twitter is apparently not the best place to raise complex concerns about game development, the consumer really has very few options when it comes to communicating with the devs.

A year or two ago, I was more on the "support Battletech" train, and not really willing to make a stand because I felt there was a significant risk that the franchise would just disappear for videogames for another ten years. Now, in 2015, I think it seems very unrealistic that PGI will stop supporting MWO. They know there's a lot of money in it, they're not going to abandon it at the drop of a dime. So I think it's a better time to send a message, if one were so inclined.

cdlord, on 17 April 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Can't fix things if there is no money. Will have to see what mechs there are (fast running out of the ones I like). As soon as I can, I plan to buy Wave III. Been on financial freeze while I purchase a new house, but that should free up come May. PGI has my support, just for bringing this game at all.... And I still attest, this is the best damn artwork and in-game models of any battletech game. Maybe I'm just easy to please.....

That's cool, I have no problem with that. Some people are very pleased with the game, some people think it's headed in the right direction and consider the biggest problems relatively small issues compared to the joy that the game brings them. Awesome. I encourage them to vote with their wallet as well.

On the flip side, I think people who are very vocal about their discontent should consider doing something about it. "Words are wind"

[Ralgas]

cdlord, on 17 April 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Can't fix things if there is no money. Will have to see what mechs there are (fast running out of the ones I like). As soon as I can, I plan to buy Wave III. Been on financial freeze while I purchase a new house, but that should free up come May. PGI has my support, just for bringing this game at all.... And I still attest, this is the best damn artwork and in-game models of any battletech game. Maybe I'm just easy to please.....

+1 Anytime "dont spend or vote with your wallet because X" threads turn up it really irks me, no matter the game. Without a publisher PGI is stuck with funding off the packs, mc and gift store. Not to mention most of thier focus outside of that is on expanding cw and more gameplay options ( which i can understand is a raw point for many given how far past it's estimated release it is). Demanding what amounts to polish over this kind of work and encouraging (passively or otherwise, and thats something that cant be denyed othwise this thread wouldn't exist) is just pants on he. ad material.

If you feel that way fine, but to encourage others should be a forum ban offense and i mean as standard practice for forums.

[EgoSlayer]

Alistair Winter, on 17 April 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

Apparently, Resistance pack 2 is on its way and will be available for sale May 1st. I guess PGI will follow its winning recipe of 4 mechs + 1 loyalty mech, available for 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 dollars.

<snip>

IS Tiers are, and have been, 20/40/60/80. Clan Mechs are 30 dollar increments.

And most of the issues you are listing are removed for frame rate and performance issues. Not saying they are not issues, but given the amount of people that already complain about frame rate putting them back in would only make things worse.

Unless we can get DX12 and the multi-threaded draw calls we can't have that level of complexity.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 17 April 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alistair Winter, on 17 April 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

Apparently, Resistance pack 2 is on its way and will be available for sale May 1st. I guess PGI will follow its winning recipe of 4 mechs + 1 loyalty mech, available for 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 dollars.

Reference needed. Where is it stated this is what they are going with?

[Ralgas]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Reference needed. Where is it stated this is what they are going with?

Town hall, details inc may 1. Not stated they are going with this but added to the concept arts done we'll see at least 1 heavy 1 assault

Edited by Ralgas, 17 April 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ralgas, on 17 April 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Town hall, details inc may 1

I didn't hear him say that there will be a loyalty mech and that it will cost more than the last Resistance pack though.

[Deathlike]

You've called me out.

I will have to think about it.

A lot of the direction PGI is going in is actually really disappointing... and I'm not talking about the blatant powercreep...

Attention to detail is honestly not PGI's forte, as long lingering problems continue onwards as "features".

At some point, PGI through your spending or lack thereof will have to listen to the people that feeds it or used to feed it and be held accountable or "acknowledge the direction" that they are going in.

It is what it is, so in some ways, it is a referendum as more packs are being released....

[Ralgas]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

I didn't hear him say that there will be a loyalty mech and that it will cost more than the last Resistance pack though.

Huh i missed the fact op used clan pricing...........

Another facet to this is the packs cant last forever. Pgi is either going to have to throw their timeline rules even further out the window or by late next year find a new way to fund. As for my own spending habits, i was gone for over 12 months and missed the whole Pgi/Igp split and forum {Godwin's Law} episodes. What i did see when i came back was more maps mechs, and new systems/features ( some of which they said would never happen btw) being churned out at rates that were unheard of back in my old playing days. So i bought a few clammers, and while the work keeps up i'll keep spending as my budget is there and the game/items have appeal. Otherwise it's just a slow sprial for everyone.........

[Pjwned]

I've said this before, but putting aside a plethora of other issues I have with the game the mech packs are simply too expensive even if I was more satisfied. The amount of content received for the amount of money given is pathetic, so I don't pay for it and it's PGI's fault.

[Bullseye69]

Depending on the mechs I will buy or not but they do have to have money to fix the issue everyone should realize this but they could do a better monthly buisness if they had reasonable priced colors and badges and also increase the player earning because the one thing that you have to have when you buy that mech is a mech bay and those people would always buy if they were reasonable in price and they were making enough extra to afford to try new chassis.

The issue with the monitor in CB is they increased the draw calls because the monitor run on a version of flash i thin k it was and it is not draw call friendly and when enabled no one got any good frame rates.

I do have issue with the lack of progress but we need more people online and willing to buy even the little thing to give them the money to stay in buisness and fix the problems it not like this is Star Citizen and they have raised 70 million plus.

[DaZur]

AW... While I respect your position, I will like always reserve my decision on how I choose to spend both my real and space bucks on the qualifier of does the purchase enhance my personal enjoyment of this game... I'm not a big proponent of holding a business hostage.

In fairness... I agree with several of your points FWIW.

Edited by DaZur, 18 April 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

• Low quality mech textures (e.g. camo patterns)
  
• Ugly damage textures
  
• Removing inverse kinematics (mechs matching the angle of their feet with the terrain)
  
• Less dramatic visual effects for death (e.g. less glowing metal, less visible ammo explosions)
  
• No working cockpit screens (Never saw them. Removed in CB, I'm told)
  
• Missiles with spiralling flight paths
  
• The changes from dynamic geometry. The CPLT used to look like this. Now it looks like this. And don't get me started on the CTF or CN9 or Jagermech. Just check out this thread.
  
• The changes to sound effects, many of which were quite unpopular. Especially the ballistics sounds, but many people feel that old PPC and SRM/LRM sounds were also better.
  
• Atlas glowing eyes.

Rather have them put all that on old and work on mech balance more.

[One Medic Army]

Eh, the game (sound/graphical changes aside) is worlds ahead of where it used to be. That's enough I'm not going to just skip out on a mech pack on principle.

[Alistair Winter]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I was hoping for some civil discussion and I was not disappointed at all.

EgoSlayer, on 17 April 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

IS Tiers are, and have been, 20/40/60/80. Clan Mechs are 30 dollar increments.
And most of the issues you are listing are removed for frame rate and performance issues. Not saying they are not issues, but given the amount of people that already complain about frame rate putting them back in would only make things worse.
Unless we can get DX12 and the multi-threaded draw calls we can't have that level of complexity.

Thanks, I've fixed the estimated dollar values.

As for frame rate and performance issues... the game is three years old this fall. At this point, it seems weird to keep lowering the bar. My computer was always average at best, but I enjoyed this game a lot even in 2012, before they changed the damage textures and removed inverse kinematics.

The missile paths are more about hitreg, as I understand it. So that's a separate issue. And the cockpit monitors as originally implemented were just broken, so it's more about finding a new solution, instead of bringing them back.

Gas Guzzler, on 17 April 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Reference needed. Where is it stated this is what they are going with?

Fixed. See above.

Deathlike, on 17 April 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

You've called me out.
I will have to think about it.
A lot of the direction PGI is going in is actually really disappointing... and I'm not talking about the blatant powercreep...
Attention to detail is honestly not PGI's forte, as long lingering problems continue onwards as "features".
At some point, PGI through your spending or lack thereof will have to listen to the people that feeds it or used to feed it and be held accountable or "acknowledge the direction" that they are going in.
It is what it is, so in some ways, it is a referendum as more packs are being released....

I believe I'm in a different situation than most people, because I'm fairly confident that I've spent more money than 90% of the people playing this game. So I don't really feel any pangs of guilt regardless of what I choose.

Some people may find that they money they've invested in MWO is rather insignificant compared to the thousands of hours of entertainment they've gotten back, in which case I can hardly blame them for wanting to pay PGI back and keep supporting the game. Indeed, I have often chastized other players who take some perverse pride in having played thousands of hours, while only spending a little money, or no money at all.

Every man has to make his choice, both based on whether they think the product is worth the price and based on whether they feel like they've given a fair amount back, compared to the entertainment they have received.

DaZur, on 17 April 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

AW... While I respect your position, I will like always reserve my decision on how I choose to spend both my real and space bucks on the qualifier of does the purchase enhance my personal enjoyment of this game... I'm not a big proponent of holding a business. Hostage.
In fairness. I Agree with several of your points FWIW

Thanks for your response. I'm not quite sure if I understand or agree with the term "holding a business hostage". If I bought the iPhone 2, 3, 4 and 5, but refuse to buy iPhone 6 because I feel like Apple should do something more to earn my payment, am I holding them hostage? You may feel that the comparison is ridiculous because Apple is infinitely bigger than PGI, but PGI has maintained a staff of 50+ employees for years now. To their credit, they are a remarkably big and stable gaming company. It's impressive that they have accomplished so much, and that they indeed managed to split with IGP instead of being absorbed entirely by bigger companies.

I don't feel like I'm holding them hostage, really. I feel they're pretty robust. Maybe I'm wrong about that.