176 replies to this topic

[Poisoner]

Before I get into the whole reason for this thread I'd like to say that I think the over quirked mechs aren't the big deal that a lot of clan players make them out to be. Yes they are hard to beat, but they're beatable.

After spending a month or so festering about the OP STK-4N, I have come to a different conclusion. Its not that the mech is overpowered, but its the fact that between the Timberwolf and Direwolf, the Clans just don't have an effective mech in the tonnage range of the STK. Basically, the STK is so damn powerful because the Gargoyle and Warhawk are DOA.

So, lets get this straight, we do need a lot of weapon balance but for right now I think we should leave quirks alone outside of a whole reset back to square one and eliminate quirks while tweaking weapon balance. (TTK, etc)

Edited by Poisoner, 28 April 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[Kain Demos]

The biggest problem is I have to see thread after thread about it every day for no reason whatsoever.

[Ultimax]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Before I get into the whole reason for this thread I'd like to say that I think the over quirked mechs aren't the big deal that a lot of clan players make them out to be. Yes they are hard to beat, but they're beatable.

After spending a month or so festering about the OP STK-4N, I have come to a different conclusion. Its not that the mech is overpowered, but its the fact that between the Timberwolf and Direwolf, the Clans just don't have an effective mech in the tonnage range of the STK. Basically, the STK is so damn powerful because the Gargoyle and Warhawk are DOA.

So, lets get this straight, we do need a lot of weapon balance but for right now I think we should leave quirks alone outside of a whole reset back to square one and eliminate quirks while tweaking weapon balance. (TTK, etc)

IS was bringing TDRs, then the 9S got nerfed.

PGI opened up IS Decks to 250 tons which easily allows 2x 85 Ton Stalkers.

Guess what mech organized IS players are going to bring?

[Fate 6]

What's wrong with it is that Clan players can't handle the IS being able to effectively mount a counter

[Poisoner]

Ultimatum X, on 28 April 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

IS was bringing TDRs, then the 9S got nerfed.

PGI opened up IS Decks to 250 tons which easily allows 2x 85 Ton Stalkers.

Guess what mech organized IS players are going to bring?

I don't think either of you get my post. The problem is not the Stalker. The problem is that Clans only have four good mechs and none of them weigh 85 tons.

[Burktross]

Fate 6, on 28 April 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

What's wrong with it is that Clan players can't handle the IS being able to effectively mount a counter

I mean, even I find it a bit OP.

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I don't think either of you get my post. The problem is not the Stalker. The problem is that Clans only have four good mechs and none of them weigh 85 tons.

Well, the same could be said about ECM heavies and the hell banana, but IS players aren't crying for the nerfbat on that.
...are they?

[Khobai]

Its wrong to single out any one mech because the problem is systemic.

The problem is the long ranges on all these weapons. Specifically due to the quirks on the Stalker/Thunderbolt and the inherently long range on the clan LPL, ERLL, and Gauss.

Its turned the game into a long-range laser light show, pretty much killed off brawling completely, and its just not fun anymore.

Quote

What's wrong with it is that Clan players can't handle the IS being able to effectively mount a counter

Because giving IS a counter was the whole problem. Rather than fixing the clan range issue before adding quirks they made the range issue worse by incorporating it into IS quirks.

Think about it... why were the Stalker and Thunderbolt quirked so insanely in the first place? So IS could compete with the Clan's longer range... The best fix is to reduce the range on ALL these weapons. The game would be so much more enjoyable with a balanced mix of long-range and brawling, like how it used to be...

Reduce range bonuses on Stalker/Thunderbolt. Reduce range on CLPL, CERLL, and possibly Gauss. That way long-range combat doesnt completely dominate the meta. A healthy meta has a balanced mix of long-range combat and brawling.

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[Poisoner]

Fate 6, on 28 April 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

What's wrong with it is that Clan players can't handle the IS being able to effectively mount a counter

Didn't take too long for an elitist post. You know just because my faction is CGB, it does not mean I don't use my IS mechs.

[Burktross]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Didn't take too long for an elitist post. You know just because my faction is CGB, it does not mean I don't use my IS mechs.

This-- I think both sides forget this too often.

[Fate 6]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Didn't take too long for an elitist post. You know just because my faction is CGB, it does not mean I don't use my IS mechs.

The Stalker-4N isn't a problem in group/PUG queue though, because the Dire Wolf is available to everyone.

[Corbenik]

Fate 6, on 28 April 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

What's wrong with it is that Clan players can't handle the IS being able to effectively mount a counter

Maybe they should leave = tonnage for both sides and no one *******.right ....right ?

[Lyoto Machida]

The 4N was completely worthless prior to the quirks.

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I don't think either of you get my post. The problem is not the Stalker. The problem is that Clans only have four good mechs and none of them weigh 85 tons.

Umm...so drop 10 tens and take a Timberwolf???

[Ultimax]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I don't think either of you get my post. The problem is not the Stalker. The problem is that Clans only have four good mechs and none of them weigh 85 tons.

You wouldn't be able to bring more than one anyway, and it would drop the rest of your tonnage down.

This is unlike IS decks that have 10 more tons which allows them to bring Stalkers easily in the first place.


On top of this clan decks don't yet have effective lights, so they can't save tonnage there either.


Compare to 85x 2 (STK) + 35x 2 (FS9 or RVN-2X)

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 April 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[El Bandito]

Stop whining Clanners, Arctic Cheater is on its way. Never liked the 4N anyway, wouldn't mind its quirks nerfed.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2015 - 05:44 PM.

[Fate 6]

Burktross, on 28 April 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

This-- I think both sides forget this too often.

We're talking about CW. He's not playing IS mechs in CW. Nobody is complaining about the Stalker in PUG drops, or is everyone here suggesting that we nerf the best IS assault while the Dire Wolf is still available in a drop mode that doesn't take tonnage into serious (or any) consideration?
As far as I can tell the Stalker isn't much of an issue in PUG drops where it is available to anyone and there are plenty of counters.

[The Mechromancer]

why does everyone turn this into a CW argument?

the 4N is overpowered in every mode.

Stalkers are my favorite chassis to play in this game, and the 4N completely outclasses all the others now.

I refuse to use.

Edited by The Mechromancer, 28 April 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[Poisoner]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 April 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

The 4N was completely worthless prior to the quirks.



Umm...so drop 10 tens and take a Timberwolf???

I do take a Timberwolf. Its not tonnage efficient to take a DWF however.

So let me ask this, when IS players fight each other do they just meta each other to death with STKs and TDRs?

[El Bandito]

The Mechromancer, on 28 April 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

why does everyone turn this into a CW argument?

the 4N is overpowered in every mode.

Stalkers are my favorite chassis to play in this game, and the 4N completely outclasses all the others now.

False. My Whale had never failed to put down 4Ns in Puglandia. It is only considered too powerful in 12 man CW teams where everyone can bring one and focus-fire the crap out of the enemy.

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

I do take a Timberwolf. Its not tonnage efficient to take a DWF however.

So let me ask this, when IS players fight each other do they just meta each other to death with STKs and TDRs?

It seems you have mistaken CW for something that is less tryhard. One mech will always be considered top pick for the weight, and CW players, being the tryhards they are, will pick only that mech. Does not matter which mech it is. Should 4N be nerfed, people will simply spam the next best thing. There is no breaking that cycle. Same deal with the Timbie, really. If it is nerfed enough, people will spam Hellbies instead.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[luxebo]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I don't think either of you get my post. The problem is not the Stalker. The problem is that Clans only have four good mechs and none of them weigh 85 tons.

You have a TBR-A with 3 high points, plus JJs, plus 10 tons less, plus Clan tech, and also adding in insane buffs to mobility (like what, 30 kph more?)

Wait your turn and you will easily defeat any STK or any KGC or any anything. TBR-A will be here and will eat everyone and everyone's families face.

[Lyoto Machida]

Poisoner, on 28 April 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

I do take a Timberwolf. Its not tonnage efficient to take a DWF however.

So let me ask this, when IS players fight each other do they just meta each other to death with STKs and TDRs?

You talking CW or otherwise? Haven't played CW in a month or two...was taking TDRs and a 3M, I think?

My point was you're better off taking a 75 ton TW over a 85 ton Clan mech anyways...at least I think it is still the case. Haven't touched my Clan mechs in months.