407 replies to this topic

[Freebrewer Bmore]

Please realize that the problem that traditional Battle Value has is the same as the problems it's trying to solve: nobody, with the possible exception of God(s) should they exist, is able to intentionally set a particular equilibrium in a hugely complex interactive system like this.

Even if that perfect gameplay balance were somehow miraculously achieved, it would still be upset by the next changing variable (e.g. a new map, or mech, or even just a new way of using one). Balance cannot be defined by static factors like X tons in your deck, or Y BV, or certain sets of quirks, or modified weapon rules, or 1-1-1-1:

Crockdaddy, on 11 May 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

I am fairly certain we will find the "Meta" in a 1-1-1-1 drop deck just as we find the Meta in anything else.

Instead, the system must be dynamic, with its parameters changing so that it continually brings itself into balance.

Markets do this thru prices. So, howbout we give mechs a price, not an ownership price but rather a selection price, and not in C-Bills or MC. In fact they already have such a price: dropdeck selection cost, denominated in tonnage. The problem is that the tonnage of each mech is fixed and cannot adjust to reflect its actual value relative to other variants, which is only crudely correlated with tonnage. Battle Value as traditionally defined is not as crude but has this same problem; nobody can know the perfect values to assign, and regardless they become obsolete as soon as the gaming environment changes.

Domenoth, on 11 May 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

People lobbying for BattleValue would probably do themselves a great service if they stopped calling it BattleValue. What they are really after is assigning a scalar number to a Mech and its pilot. [...] the actual scalar number would be incredibly difficult to calculate and that's why we can't have it, rather than saying it wouldn't be any better than a tonnage system because tonnage accounts even less for the very things you mentioned like geometry and hardpoint locations.

Indeed. Here's a fellow who was talking about a totally different and far superior kind of BV who unfortunately used the same term anyway:
http://mwomercs.com/...levalue-system/

He also spent rather too many words explaining what is a pretty simple concept: Use mech usage statistics to give each variant some kind of opportunity cost and allow that cost to adjust as player preferences change. Cost will meet the level of demand, OP mechs will be held in check, and you'll see way more mech diversity in play.

It'd also be a good platform from which to develop CW logistics. Seriously, this could improve so much and yet be trivially easy to implement...

Edited by Freebrewer Bmore, 11 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[B0oN]

Sees all the rage from a 10t dropdeck reduction .
Calls technician to mount streaks on as many mechs as possible .
Waits for the impending light rush of titan-class void-shielded IS lights .

*Still isn´t able to figure out what brought this change along, and resolves to not waste time on thinking about it, because PGI*

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 11 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

Appogee, on 11 May 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

I bought an Anansi...

PGI: looks like our job is done

[Dea79]

This ... is ...insane !!!

[Lily from animove]

Arioch1973, on 11 May 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

What!!!!!!!!! So just because the clans won, and they still ***** about our mechs being OP, we get reduced drop tonnage??????
Insanity.

This is basically more mae to keep the progress on the map a bit more dynamic. currently CW is ratehr dead, and MS is conquering most planets since they seem to be the only one left unit truly active.

They will mostlikely wait until clanners have more terrain and IS will get tonnage back.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

im sure the 10 tons were preventing any cw progress and not the new terrible mechanics

[RAHAAON]

Dea79, on 11 May 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

This ... is ...insane !!!

Did I ever tell you, the definition of insanity?

[Nightshade24]

Daisu Saikoro, on 11 May 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

I must admit, when I heard this it made no sense to me or the people I was speaking to.

What is this supposed to solve?

This was supposed to solve the problem of imbalance between IS and Clan as well as reverse stupid pro-IS adjustments just because IS was losing earlier to an MM bug / short sight that is now fixed.

[Tarmok II]

well that can u say about this?

whine and u get what u want from PGI

clanns win the event and IS gets nerved



and btw the explanation u give us here is just ********

"Inner Spere supply lines and infrastructure in the outer territories, already being stressed by extended clan occupation have experienced even greater turnmoil in the wake of immense losses experienced at the Battle od Tukayyid"

i mean if u want to give us a lore explanation do it right or dont do it.

stressed supply lines and infrastructure. RLY???
immense losses experienced at the Battle of Tukayyid.
so the clanns did not suffer any losses??? a much smaller force losses the same amount of mechs and has to supply over multible times the distance as the IS

[Gagis]

Well, ****. I had bought the mechs I own specifically to fit 250 tons. Need to buy some more mechs again.

I wish they'd rather increase clan tons to 250 too. Partially because I want to drop King Crab, Crab, Crab, Crab in the future and this just broke that dream.

[Varvar86]

Tonnage is not a problem! Quirks - that’s what makes people angry. Game doesn’t need 100+ mechs if there only 5 of them are in use because of OP Quirks. People just Mad that they cant take most amount of heavy overbuffed buckets all atones. and thats not a people problem - thats game balance problem. Get rid of Quirks and BAM – tonnage is not an issue anymore.
I miss times before Clantech when there was no Quirk walls limiting people imagination in mechs and builds,,,,,,,,,
Im in Clan - because there is almost no Quirk walls.
"old man mode on"
Remember! Quirks - thats what will ruin this game!
"old man mode off"

Edited by Varvar86, 12 May 2015 - 12:56 AM.

[Gooner]

And this is why I'm not buying any new mechs, for real money, or for CBills. Its just a never ending grind to try and get a competitive set of mechs and then just when you think you're sorted ... they change the rules.

Before CW, I spent probably hundreds of hours mastering multiple variants of the Atlas, Stalker, Battlemaster, Victor and Cataphract. Then CW finally gets released and there is a tonnage limit which meant I could bring, at most, 2 of those mechs (85/70/65/20). Okay fine, I guess you need that balance. So I spend millions more CBills and dozens more hours grinding Thunderbolts and I also bought a Locust.

Then it gets changed to 250. I never liked the Locust, and I'd since realised that I like the Thunderbolt far more than the Cataphract so I had been dropping at 235 anyway (85/65/65/20). I used the extra tonnage to get a Firestarter. Started grinding it up during Tukkayid.

Now we're back down to 240, so those CBills and hours spent on the Firestarter was a complete waste. Fantastic. Can you imagine how annoyed I'd feel right now if I'd actually bought 3 variants of the Firestarter so that I could grind 1 all the way up to master (a mechanic that I've always hated)?

So tell me, why should I bother grinding any more mechs, when at a moments notice that drop limit could be changed again?

[Stitchedup]

I think during Battle of Tukayyid IS players got a lot more organised with even pugs dropping into ts channels. Equaling more wins

[Apewar]

Gooner...did you really expect to only grind out 4 or 5 chassis and expect to win the game.

[Kem]

Wow, rly good stuff, add a ghostBeer and nova boiler and you are well served

[Asmosis]

This kind of thing makes buying new mechs a pain in the butt.

It would have been better to increase clan tonnage to 250 as well, at least then both IS & Clan drop decks would remain valid.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

From Twitter. That explains a bit.

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia · 9. Mai 
@russ_bullock Russ theClans are getting destroyed in CW, can Omni's be allowed to Switch Ferro for Endo?(only adds 2Tons to MDD/SMN/GAR/WHK)

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock · 9 Std.Vor 9 Stunden

Yes for the record only about 35% of IS drop decks utilized tonnage beyond 240

Pariah Devalis ‏@PariahDevalis · 9 Std.Vor 9 Stunden

@russ_bullock Exactly right. I do not understand the kneejerk tears going on about the change when in 65% of the time it changes nothing. :\

Cimarb ‏@cimarbs · 8 Std.Vor 8 Stunden

@PariahDevalis @russ_bullock would love to say "told you so", Russ, but I think you saw this outcome too (and had to offer it anyway)

Russ Bullock
‏@russ_bullock @cimarbs @PariahDevalis not sure we can say that many changes like 3LL and some quirks came online after the tonnage change

[Gagis]

Apewar, on 12 May 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

Gooner...did you really expect to only grind out 4 or 5 chassis and expect to win the game.

I am a new player. Having to change mechs at this point is kind of frustrating, when I have not gotten even my previous purchases all mastered and kitted out with modules. I only own 2 KGC, 2 Thunderbolts, 2 Ravens, 2 Stormcrows, 2 Hellbringers and am now working on eliting Stalkers. This does not make a good IS combination under 240 tons.

We don't all sit on a pile of hundreds of mechs.

Still more bitter about the King Crab, Crab, Crab, Crab dropdeck though. That would hve been SO BEAUTIFUL!

[BurningJM]

Hmmm only 35% ? thats 1/3 of all IS Players, so never mind as it is not more?

As maybe nearly the same number in active clan players you maybe can say 1/4 of all still willing CW Players

So please keep on with scaring away the last willing players out of the game mode its close to dead anyways by player numbers.

Would be interesting to know how many ppl play the game but not cw, as i can see the low numbers in cw by queue info : right now 7 clan attackers (over 2 planets) / 25 Defender . Wow a massive number of 32 willing players. Count me 33 but ghost Drops are really a waste of time, maybe you should enter a autowin, btw what is this new def ghost drop? steal of time, were i prefer wait a Minute longer for an enemy who was abt to form up by queue info earlier when i hit the def button...

Maybe the Clans not getting progress cause they are not able to conquer anymore, as a win goes over in counter attack fights for one field, resulting in fighting the same map over and over again (boring) and between cease fire they are not able to conquer the planet...maybe you shoud switch back here to old matchmaking with Counter attack at around 50% attacker success

There are not enough Players on clan side existing or willing to play the game mode thats the real problem. Really sad cause i love the idea of this mode but you need to do something or ppl leave.

[Catra Lanis]

Torchfire, on 11 May 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Going from a highlander to a stalker in CW is an upgrade, FYI. Quirks man, quirks. Quirks are the real issue here.

No it isn't quirks, it's the big units with good players flip flopping. At Tuk they were clanners, Now they're Kurita. In a few months they'll be clanners again.