88 replies to this topic

[DI3T3R]

1. It's not a campaign. It's the same as PUG-matches. It's bland, standardized, canned content. Every match is exactly the same. Every planet is exactly the same. The matches that happened before yours don't matter to you. And your match won't matter to those coming after you.

THERE IS NO POINT IN PLAYING CW INSTEAD OF PUG-MATCHES.

PGI, you are not offering content with CW.
You are offering yet another opportunity to grind some pointless statistic that only exists on your servers.



2. CW is unbalanced because it pits optimized pre-made teams against, well, PUGs. These pre-made teams have an inherent tactical advantage because they had the option to actually plan what they will be doing. If you manage to convince your PUG-team of walking to the same spot at the same time, that's already a grand feat you can proudly tell to your grandkids at old age.

Out of about 50 matches with a PUG-team against a pre-made, I have won exactly 2.
I have seen cases where players just roundabout leave a match right at the beginning when they see that we are up againt a pre-made.

THERE IS NO POINT IN PITTING PRE-MADES 1:1 AGAINST PUGS.



3. Wait-times are not actually a problem in CW, don't let any body tell you otherwise. The unsatisfying wait-times are simply a side-effect of too few players being around. And there are too few players around because CW isn't fun.

THE PROBLEM WITH CW IS SYSTEMIC BECAUSE IT'S POORLY DESIGNED.
CW OFFERS NEITHER IMMERSION NOR EXCITEMENT.
THE FAULT IS ENTIRELY YOURS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE DEMANDS OF YOUR CUSTOMERS.
OFFERING YOUR CUSTOMERS INCENTIVES TO BUY THE PRODUCT IS POINTLESS IF THE PRODUCT SUCKS.





Dear PGI.

I can't really judge your qualifications on programming. But you really, really suck at designing a game. (It took half an eternity for you to listen to your customers and create the Skirmish-mode!) You have to step up your game on that. If you don't, your customers will move to other scifi-wargames, like the upcoming Eternal Crusade from the studio Behaviour Interactive. Closed-Beta starts in fall, Open-Beta maybe a year from now. Their PR and connection to their fanbase is way, WAY better than yours. And their attention to details and game-design is also way, WAY better than yours.

MWO will die in a few short years. And you will have nobody to blame but your incompetence.

with best regards,
a customer (for now)

[Wildstreak]

1 - Define content. If you mean more gimmes like MC, cockpit items, Mechs, etc., there are a few under achievements and you can offer objectives without free stuff. That is why previous MW titles did well, you had objectives and a number of them were different.

2 - Agree, add in the teams can decide who wins by going to certain factions.

3 - Wrong. I tried CW back around the change in year when there were more people playing it, wait times still sucked.

Add in.

4 - Respawning has created problems. Spawn camping & logistics being the big ones, the second is partly why both sides are now using Energy boats.

[Enzane]

The founder in me wants to shout: "It's beta!"

1. However, you are partially correct. The CW needs more work to it. Be it a random weapon drop, a random part drop, or Even the ability to OWN your worlds. Imagine if we could actually customize defenses? Make special objectives, instead of the constant orbital gun ((which should be IN orbit, but that's another rant entirely)). I think customization, meaning, and other effects will be coming at some point. But given PGI's track record, it will be too little too late by the time it does.


2. Before I joined a guild I ran pugs for awhile myself. And while most of the time It can be frustrating to get puggers to do as you like, There is still some level of control you have. Assign a Drop Caller. Someone who runs the thing. And give him the final word, even if it's a stupid call. A force united will stand stronger then one divided. If someone decides to go AFK, or go rouge. Remove them from the group. It's as simple as that.


3. Wait times... Yeah... They suck. But what's better? Waiting 10 minutes for a possible fight, or waiting 3 minutes and having 3 turret drops before finding a real match? I think if CW has more players, the wait times will become more reasonable. Also, the inclusion of dedicated planets, ((This planet is MINE, and I WILL defend it)) would start to give guaranteed quick matches.


4. This is a mech sim. not call of duty. Spawn camping is a strategy. You may not like it, but it's just as valid as the light swarm. Serious players are going to use what works. and this works... on some maps. There are many counters to spawn camping. You just have to figure them out. I know of two or three off the top of my head. ((The one I will tell you about is: If you are being spawn camped... Don't click the "Go to Dropship" button... If you do, you will spawn. If you don't... you won't spawn. Saving your mechs))
Energy Boating is very simple. It's the best option out there. Good pilots will last, and know how to stay alive. If you run out of ammo in your streak boat, or AC/40, but are still in good condition... Then you are just useless. however, if you take lasers, you never run out of ammo. It's simply the best option. And once again. What wins is what works. I forget the term, but in Game Development Circles, It is well known a player will use the easiest way to play the game. If you give them a weapon that is clearly better in a situation, they are going to use that weapon. Take Megaman for example, If you are the worst player, are you still going to use the boss's weakness? Of course. Why would we use inferior weapons against anyone?

[Erasmos]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the only thing I hate about CW, is that I would almost always rather PUG, than sit in a waiting queue for 10+ minutes, just to play a 10 minute game.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I think the wait times are a bit more ridiculous than they used to be... But so many people have either stopped playing, or all belong to one or two factions, so it's murdering the process...

I will happily wait 10 minutes for a 30 minute drop. When it becomes unacceptable is when I wait 20 minutes for a ghost drop and get less rewards than selling an IS medium laser would net me.

I wish ghost drops came with higher rewards... But, I realize that would get abused.... People would make 12 mans and pick a planet no one is on... As always, the problem is, 'people suck'

And, it's a shame. I really enjoy CW. I wish there was a bit more variety, but what we have isn't bad. And the rewards for Loyalty points are motivation enough for me... Love those free mechbays!

I don't sweat the variety much, I know more is coming. I don't sweat the lack of 'purpose', I'm sure that's coming too... For now, I just enjoy the more tactical gameplay.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 22 May 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

The reason i don't touch CW after 10 or so matches is.....the maps filled with bottlenecks.
The dropzone kills comes in 2nd place....but the maps with all the bottlenecks that cannot be bypassed is downright....moronic.
I got no kinder word for it than that.

[DI3T3R]

Wildstreak, on 22 May 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

1 - Define content. If you mean more gimmes like MC, cockpit items, Mechs, etc., there are a few under achievements and you can offer objectives without free stuff. That is why previous MW titles did well, you had objectives and a number of them were different.

What I mean with content? This:
There is no difference which House/Clan you fight for, which planet you fight over, what has happened so far in this 300-year-old war. There is no story, there is no imagination, there is no immersion, there is no adventure, there are no surprises, there are no hard choices.

Is MWO a game that gets you interested in the Battletech-universe?

Do you come here for excitement and adventure or do you come here for the grind of gotta-catch-em-all?

[bad arcade kitty]

the reason why people hate it's because if you play solo you will lose, lose and lose and not everybody wants to join unit or some crap simply to play that mode

groups kill cw, for themselves as well

[Black Ivan]

Well sai.d it is a grind. Nothing to motivate people to get into CW or either the solo ques. There is no story, no immersion in the universe at all.

[Mycrus]

DI3T3R, on 22 May 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

1. It's not a campaign. It's the same as PUG-matches. It's bland, standardized, canned content. Every match is exactly the same. Every planet is exactly the same. The matches that happened before yours don't matter to you. And your match won't matter to those coming after you.

THERE IS NO POINT IN PLAYING CW INSTEAD OF PUG-MATCHES.

PGI, you are not offering content with CW.
You are offering yet another opportunity to grind some pointless statistic that only exists on your servers.



2. CW is unbalanced because it pits optimized pre-made teams against, well, PUGs. These pre-made teams have an inherent tactical advantage because they had the option to actually plan what they will be doing. If you manage to convince your PUG-team of walking to the same spot at the same time, that's already a grand feat you can proudly tell to your grandkids at old age.

Out of about 50 matches with a PUG-team against a pre-made, I have won exactly 2.
I have seen cases where players just roundabout leave a match right at the beginning when they see that we are up againt a pre-made.

THERE IS NO POINT IN PITTING PRE-MADES 1:1 AGAINST PUGS.



3. Wait-times are not actually a problem in CW, don't let any body tell you otherwise. The unsatisfying wait-times are simply a side-effect of too few players being around. And there are too few players around because CW isn't fun.

THE PROBLEM WITH CW IS SYSTEMIC BECAUSE IT'S POORLY DESIGNED.
CW OFFERS NEITHER IMMERSION NOR EXCITEMENT.
THE FAULT IS ENTIRELY YOURS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE DEMANDS OF YOUR CUSTOMERS.
OFFERING YOUR CUSTOMERS INCENTIVES TO BUY THE PRODUCT IS POINTLESS IF THE PRODUCT SUCKS.





Dear PGI.

I can't really judge your qualifications on programming. But you really, really suck at designing a game. (It took half an eternity for you to listen to your customers and create the Skirmish-mode!) You have to step up your game on that. If you don't, your customers will move to other scifi-wargames, like the upcoming Eternal Crusade from the studio Behaviour Interactive. Closed-Beta starts in fall, Open-Beta maybe a year from now. Their PR and connection to their fanbase is way, WAY better than yours. And their attention to details and game-design is also way, WAY better than yours.

MWO will die in a few short years. And you will have nobody to blame but your incompetence.

with best regards,
a customer (for now)

my first cw drop in a long while.... skipped tukayyid altogether...

[Alistair Winter]

1- Each planet should have a selection of possible maps. E.g. some worlds should only have Emerald Taiga, Boreal Vault and Hellebore Springs. Other worlds should only have Grim Portico, Vitric Forge and Sulfurous Rift. Or maybe even 2 maps per world. This would make it feel more unique when you fight over a new world. Right now, there's zero connection between the world and the map, which makes it all feel bland and uninteresting.

If each world had a few designated maps, then maybe we would even see some <gasp> galaxy-level strategy being used. Imagine that.

2 - We have a LFG tool, but it's basically invisible unless you know to look for it. You have to click a tiny social icon and then find the tiny LFG button. It's about as intuitive as MS DOS.
And even if you do find the LFG tool, we don't really have lobbies with VOIP integrated. So the amount of communication you can do with your group before each match is severely limited.

PGI has a long, long way to go before a good Steam release.

Looking forward to CW Beta 3 and CW Beta 4.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 23 May 2015 - 02:33 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Post was going places until you started insulting PGI and declaring MWO dead.

[PlzDie]

@ OP wrong place, try twitter.

[Star Colonel Silver Surat]

Mycrus, on 23 May 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

my first cw drop in a long while.... skipped tukayyid altogether...

%20http://i.imgur.com/Q1fhe1C.jpg

The Timberwolf/Stormcrow nerf seems to have devastated premade morale.

[XX Sulla XX]

I find it to be a long time commitment for very narrow game play. The way the maps and game modes are made it makes most games very much the same. At least in normal groups you get some variation in game play. And if it is a bad team your on at least its over fast. I cant stand CW the way its setup right now.

[jaxjace]

DI3T3R, on 23 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

What I mean with content? This:
There is no difference which House/Clan you fight for, which planet you fight over, what has happened so far in this 300-year-old war. There is no story, there is no imagination, there is no immersion, there is no adventure, there are no surprises, there are no hard choices.

Is MWO a game that gets you interested in the Battletech-universe?

Do you come here for excitement and adventure or do you come here for the grind of gotta-catch-em-all?

Grind gotta catch em all.

[Johnny Z]

When is next months road map coming out? Whats in the next update? That part of the game is still in beta and until it is nearing done then its tough to say if anything needs to be added or what ever. But seriously what is in the next update and roadmap?

[TWIAFU]

bad arcade kitty, on 23 May 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

the reason why people hate it's because if you play solo you will lose, lose and lose and not everybody wants to join unit or some crap simply to play that mode

groups kill cw, for themselves as well

You mean to tell us 12 people playing as individuals will loose to 12 people playing as one?

Stop the presses! This is the first time in MMO video game history we have witnessed this!

Seriously, get over it. This is not rocket science as my 8 year old cousin understands this very simple premise.

Why don't you stop playing with yourself and play with others. Rise up to the challenge instead of trying to bring everyone down to your lowest common denominator level.

[GoGo Yubari]

DI3T3R, on 23 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

What I mean with content? This:
There is no difference which House/Clan you fight for, which planet you fight over, what has happened so far in this 300-year-old war. There is no story, there is no imagination, there is no immersion, there is no adventure, there are no surprises, there are no hard choices.

Is MWO a game that gets you interested in the Battletech-universe?

Do you come here for excitement and adventure or do you come here for the grind of gotta-catch-em-all?

I agree with this entirely. It's the main problem with CW as intended. Right now, it's just another game mode with the map and conquest mechanics being utterly irrelevant. We might as well be having a drop deck mode with larger maps in the public queue without any of the attempted chrome.

For it to work as a campaign there needs to be significant continuity (the results from one match to the other need to factor in and there needs to be a greater significance on actually winning or losing), less faction jumping (which might mean a significant re-thinking of mercenaries vs loyalists and certainly a clean split between Clans and IS) and some customizability to your forces/planets/participation/unit/something.

The core assumptions that govern the game outside of CW should be challenged, perhaps inclyding such things as what does it mean to own a 'Mech in CW? Of course, the idea that people should be able to use all the 'Mechs they have bought into their hangars (be they IS or Clan) haunts the design to some extent.

To be more constructive, let me offer the seeds of a solution. I'm thinking CW should be designed as a campaign mode that has (say) six month cycles, after which the map gets recycled. During each cycle there would be a greater emphasis on factional loyalty ('Mercs would still exist, but the loyalists would have significant advantages), ie. with no faction jumping. Each cycle could be based on a different era of Battletech and would impose limits on the 'Mechs and technology that can be used. Now that's a start and intended to sort of manage the fact that people have different 'Mechs (and will want to play them) vs. actually making things significant.

[Molossian Dog]

It is Mecha-Pokemon.

And the PUG queue is more convient to catch them all.

=> CW is unpopular.