228 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Two main reasons for this:
1. Prevents light mechs from blowing too far past the current speed cap. I am actually really excited about this. It means that the Dasher and Flea are more likely to enter the game, now. A Dasher/Fire-Moth typically runs at 162kph, which would only push the MASC to 180kph (only 10kph past the current speed cap, and not as huge of a deal as trying to compensate for over 200kph). The Engine Caps of a Flea would probably lead to a comparable speed (if not exactly the same with current engine cap standards).

The Moth breaks the speed cap even without MASC.

The Flea would be terrible, because it would roughly match Locust speed with MASC activated while being relatively slow without MASC on.

[cSand]

Dak Darklighter, on 15 June 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

Why do so many mechs have quirks that have nothing to do with their stock weapon/equipment loadout?

cause stock builds / equipment don't work really that well in MWO and generally quirking stock weapons results in useless quirks

[Twilight Fenrir]

I'm quite disappointed the Shadow Cat won't be able to pull 130KPH... that's one of the things that defined them :/

I hadn't noticed the disparity in the MASC values... Maybe they'll change before the S-Cat comes out... *Crosses fingers*


At least the damage inflicted by MASC overheat also scales... Will be able to push the S-Cat harder...

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 15 June 2015 - 06:39 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Twilight Fenrir, on 15 June 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'm quite disappointed the Shadow Cat won't be able to pull 130KPH... that's one of the things that defined them :/

I hadn't noticed the disparity in the MASC values... Maybe they'll change before the S-Cat comes out... *Crosses fingers*


At least the damage inflicted by MASC overheat also scales... Will be able to push the S-Cat harder...

The disparity of speed between the various sizes of MASC, or the disparity between the speed of IS and Clan MASC MK III and IV? Neither make sense to me and, honestly and practically, probably won't make much of a difference since I suspect MASC will be used for accell/decell changes far and beyond the actual speed boost. It is just a confusing variation that serves no purpose.

[Sereglach]

Mcgral18, on 15 June 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

Fire Moth is actually ~178 Kph with a 200 engine. Speed tweak, can't forget it.
Locust is ~170 with a 190, and they're the same tonnage.

So, already pushing the speed limit, +10% brings it to 195.


Cat will go ~130; I think I'd prefer the 2 tons and grab a Gauss rifle.

Actually, the mechs don't all match their TT speed, by default. Some start slower and the speed tweak brings them up to TT standards. A stock Atlas, for example, goes 48.6 in MWO, but once speed tweak is thrown in it matches its TT counterpart at ~54kph.

That actually made me have to go back and check the stock speeds according to TT for the Locust. Apparently the heavier the mech, the further it strays from TT speed values. You're right with the Locust. A stock Locust with a 160 does, in fact, match up with its TT speed of 129.6 before speed tweak.

That does make the change a little different, but not by too much, topping off a Dasher with MASC at ~195kph as you cited. It's about the same 20kph jump we made with the last speed cap increase; and hit registration, overall, is significantly better then it was when the last increase happened.

That's still much easier to deal with then having the Dasher go ~240kph with a purely translated MASC and MWO speed tweak.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 June 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

The disparity of speed between the various sizes of MASC, or the disparity between the speed of IS and Clan MASC MK III and IV? Neither make sense to me and, honestly and practically, probably won't make much of a difference since I suspect MASC will be used for accell/decell changes far and beyond the actual speed boost. It is just a confusing variation that serves no purpose.

I'm probably going to use it to run away more than anything XD i USED to have JJs for that, before they got nerfed

[Frost Lord]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I don't like that the MASC percentage buff gets lower as your mech's weight gets lower. :\ Why does Scat only get 10% when the Exe gets 20%? Sadface.

well considering the IS have a level five one would suggest they are like targeting computers rather then jump jets so you could put the larger ones into light mechs im thinking.

interesting scaling IS are the same speed buff but do more damage then the rest the clans are faster but take more damage. but then the IS have one higher level that is slightly faster then the clans level fore.

Frost Lord, on 15 June 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

well considering the IS have a level five one would suggest they are like targeting computers rather then jump jets so you could put the larger ones into light mechs im thinking.

interesting scaling IS are the same speed buff but do more damage then the rest the clans are faster but take more damage. but then the IS have one higher level that is slightly faster then the clans level fore.

tho I guess the clan ones cant be changed unless they use the new engine changing mechanics in mech lab to change it on the spot

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

The Moth breaks the speed cap even without MASC.

The Flea would be terrible, because it would roughly match Locust speed with MASC activated while being relatively slow without MASC on.

Don't know until we put it in the game and see where things stand. As I state above in the conversation with Mcgral18, if the Flea and Dasher have similar speed caps, and push the speed cap by another 20kph, it's not a far stretch from what we already have (and it's the same kind of speed bump as last time).

On the other hand, the Urbanmech isn't a terrible mech, overall, and neither is the Panther. Neither one of them get remotely close to pushing the speed cap. So, why would the Flea be any different? Just about every mech that's been cited as DOA before release has turned out to be a pretty respectable mech.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Frost Lord, on 15 June 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

well considering the IS have a level five one would suggest they are like targeting computers rather then jump jets so you could put the larger ones into light mechs im thinking.

interesting scaling IS are the same speed buff but do more damage then the rest the clans are faster but take more damage. but then the IS have one higher level that is slightly faster then the clans level fore.


tho I guess the clan ones cant be changed unless they use the new engine changing mechanics in mech lab to change it on the spot

Well now... THAT is an interesting idea!

Unfortunately, it doesn't hold up with the stats we have listed, as each MASC has a min/max weight range.

[FupDup]

Frost Lord, on 15 June 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

well considering the IS have a level five one would suggest they are like targeting computers rather then jump jets so you could put the larger ones into light mechs im thinking.

interesting scaling IS are the same speed buff but do more damage then the rest the clans are faster but take more damage. but then the IS have one higher level that is slightly faster then the clans level fore.

tho I guess the clan ones cant be changed unless they use the new engine changing mechanics in mech lab to change it on the spot

For MASC (IS + Clan), each mech can only choose one specific type of MASC, they can't choose a size like Targeting Computers. The size you can choose is based on the mech's weight.

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Don't know until we put it in the game and see where things stand. As I state above in the conversation with Mcgral18, if the Flea and Dasher have similar speed caps, and push the speed cap by another 20kph, it's not a far stretch from what we already have (and it's the same kind of speed bump as last time).

On the other hand, the Urbanmech isn't a terrible mech, overall, and neither is the Panther. Neither one of them get remotely close to pushing the speed cap. So, why would the Flea be any different? Just about every mech that's been cited as DOA before release has turned out to be a pretty respectable mech.

The Flea has much less tonnage to work with than the Urbs and Panther.

If you want a Flea, just make a poor man's version by taking a Locust with a small engine.

[Sereglach]

Frost Lord, on 15 June 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

well considering the IS have a level five one would suggest they are like targeting computers rather then jump jets so you could put the larger ones into light mechs im thinking.

interesting scaling IS are the same speed buff but do more damage then the rest the clans are faster but take more damage. but then the IS have one higher level that is slightly faster then the clans level fore.

If you look at the MASC specification they cite the chassis tonnage that each size MASC relates to. You can't put a MASC meant for a 100 ton mech on a 20 tonner. The IS has an extra size because IS MASC was less efficient then the Clans' version, in lore. The IS works in factors of 20 while the Clans work in factors of 25.

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

The Flea has much less tonnage to work with than the Urbs and Panther.

If you want a Flea, just make a poor man's version by taking a Locust with a small engine.

Again, there's no harm putting the Flea into the game and you're making a big assumption, as people have with each "DOA" chassis beforehand, that the Flea will be useless.

Besides, more variety never hurt anyone. Why be so utterly against putting a mech into the game? Even if you don't like it, someone else will.

[-Skyrider-]

This new MASC just made the Firemoth Viable. With only a 10% boost in speed, that means it can only run up to about 194 kph, and with the new sever tweaking and other things getting upgraded. It might become possible by about Christmas!!! Or by clan wave 4

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

Again, there's no harm putting the Flea into the game and you're making a big assumption, as people have with each "DOA" chassis beforehand, that the Flea will be useless.

There actually have been mechs that were either dead or close to dead, people just don't like to admit that there are very large power gaps between the best mechs and worst mechs.

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

Besides, more variety never hurt anyone. Why be so utterly against putting a mech into the game? Even if you don't like it, someone else will.

Because it would be more productive to add a mech that has more potential to be at least decent without getting crazy huge quirks. Mechs that almost nobody uses after 2-3 months of release don't add variety.

For example, from time to time I actually forget that Kintaros even exist in this game because they're so damn rare, and they're that rare because they're outclassed by many other options. Kintaros, in this example, don't add very much to the game.

[Tarogato]

This is one of the most beautiful sets of patch notes I think I've ever seen come from PGI...

Amazing changes all around, and all good ones. Bug fixes for everybody! <3

[Hawk819]

Finally! I'm going to remove the Flame and use the spot for something more practical. Depends on the build. My Adder got some much needed love.

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

There actually have been mechs that were either dead or close to dead, people just don't like to admit that there are very large power gaps between the best mechs and worst mechs.

Because it would be more productive to add a mech that has more potential to be at least decent without getting crazy huge quirks. Mechs that almost nobody uses after 2-3 months of release don't add variety.

For example, from time to time I actually forget that Kintaros even exist in this game because they're so damn rare, and they're that rare because they're outclassed by many other options. Kintaros, in this example, don't add very much to the game.

So . . . translation . . . "Only add something to the game if it enhances meta" is what I get out of that.

IF we only added mechs to the game that enhanced some form of "usefulness" then we'd have less chassis in this game then most MechWarrior titles of the past. You could go through and cherry pick one chassis for IS and one for Clan for each tonnage rating, then call it a day. You could get away with 34 Chassis in MWO and "fulfill everything useful". Heck, you could probably cut it down to one per weight class (of course the most min-maxed super l33t mechs with the best geometry) open up the mechlab to fall in lines with classic TT and no limitations, and get by with 8 chassis. Oh how fun that would be.

For Battletech in general, there are over 600 chassis in existence; and many thousands of variants. Many of them are quite similar in purpose and application. However, I'm sure you'll find at least a handful of people, per chassis, who would have a desire to see them in MWO.

You're only going to have 24 mechs in a typical match, and we already have 49 chassis in the game, averaging 4 variants a piece (almost 200 variants total), with 8 more (and their 32 variants) on the way. I don't expect to see most mechs any more than occasionally, with the most obscene performers quite regularly.

Now, as for some mechs being underperformers or over performers, there's this ongoing things called balance. The most extreme performers get brought down some to be within the acceptable range of power, while the most underperforming units get brought up some to be within the same acceptable range of power. It's an ongoing process that never ends. Kintaros might not be useful now, in your eyes (I still see a fair number of them around), but that doesn't mean they're going to always be that way.

On the other hand, I don't think the "superquirked" mechs should exist, and there are plenty of other ways to balance them. It's still quite early for the quirk system, and there's still plenty of balancing to do. That doesn't mean you just flat out kill something before it ever shows up.

[Frost Lord]

Tarogato, on 15 June 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

This is one of the most beautiful sets of patch notes I think I've ever seen come from PGI...

Amazing changes all around, and all good ones. Bug fixes for everybody! <3

I dont know the drop ship and shielded gens sound over the top will need to see but it makes me think of the first days of community warfare where the attackers would push back the defenders only to get ripped apart buy the drop ships coming in at lest for the original maps. the later ones I guess it shouldn't really matter we will see.

[Domenoth]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

Actually, the mechs don't all match their TT speed, by default.

Are you sure it's not due to Mechs with odd numbers for their Walking MP not getting their Running MP rounded up?

Like a 5 MP Griffin: 5 * 1.5 = 7.5 which is not 8

A Griffin with a 275 engine runs at 81 KPH because math.

Atlas: 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 not 5

54 kph / 5 * 4.5 = 48.6 kph

[Sereglach]

Domenoth, on 15 June 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Are you sure it's not due to Mechs with odd numbers for their Walking MP not getting their Running MP rounded up?

Like a 5 MP Griffin: 5 * 1.5 = 7.5 which is not 8

A Griffin with a 275 engine runs at 81 KPH because math.

Atlas: 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 not 5

54 kph / 5 * 4.5 = 48.6 kph

That could quite possibly be the case. I haven't sat down and crunched all the numbers. That actually has quite a solid standing, and does make sense. Apparently MWO doesn't like rounding.