228 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

Frost Lord, on 15 June 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

I dont know the drop ship and shielded gens sound over the top will need to see but it makes me think of the first days of community warfare where the attackers would push back the defenders only to get ripped apart buy the drop ships coming in at lest for the original maps. the later ones I guess it shouldn't really matter we will see.

Who is betting that is going to happen again ?

Just in case people forgot why ERLLs was removed from the defenders drop ship in the first place.

Edited by ShinVector, 15 June 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[Domenoth]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

That could quite possibly be the case. I haven't sat down and crunched all the numbers. That actually has quite a solid standing, and does make sense. Apparently MWO doesn't like rounding.

I think it's actually the right decision. Rounding up would actually be an unfair buff for Mechs that took advantage of it.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

There actually have been mechs that were either dead or close to dead, people just don't like to admit that there are very large power gaps between the best mechs and worst mechs.

Because it would be more productive to add a mech that has more potential to be at least decent without getting crazy huge quirks. Mechs that almost nobody uses after 2-3 months of release don't add variety.

For example, from time to time I actually forget that Kintaros even exist in this game because they're so damn rare, and they're that rare because they're outclassed by many other options. Kintaros, in this example, don't add very much to the game.

In general, there are a handful of really superior 'mechs, a huge amount of "about average" 'mechs, and a handful of really crappy 'mechs.

Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf the really superior 'mechs down into the "about average" pack, rather than keep the power creep building?

'Mechs that overpower every other 'mech take away variety.

[Sereglach]

Domenoth, on 15 June 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

I think it's actually the right decision. Rounding up would actually be an unfair buff for Mechs that took advantage of it.

Not disagreeing with this sentiment. Just making an observation. It does provide a smoother speed curve, overall, when you start looking at the numbers. It also makes the level of engine customization we have for mechs possible. Otherwise we'd be looking at MP increase increments, like TT customization.

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

So . . . translation . . . "Only add something to the game if it enhances meta" is what I get out of that.

Well, the unit in question doesn't necessarily have to be a "meta" unit, but it should at least be able to hold its ground against such units.

If we're using PGI's tier scale of 1-5, with 1 being best and 5 being worst, mechs that can be at least tier 3 or so without even being quirked are the ones that make sense to prioritize. They will be used by many more players, and as preorder mechs they would probably rake in more cash unless we're talking about very specific super iconic mechs.

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

IF we only added mechs to the game that enhanced some form of "usefulness" then we'd have less chassis in this game then most MechWarrior titles of the past. You could go through and cherry pick one chassis for IS and one for Clan for each tonnage rating, then call it a day. You could get away with 34 Chassis in MWO and "fulfill everything useful". Heck, you could probably cut it down to one per weight class (of course the most min-maxed super l33t mechs with the best geometry) open up the mechlab to fall in lines with classic TT and no limitations, and get by with 8 chassis. Oh how fun that would be.

For Battletech in general, there are over 600 chassis in existence; and many thousands of variants. Many of them are quite similar in purpose and application. However, I'm sure you'll find at least a handful of people, per chassis, who would have a desire to see them in MWO.

Well, this is because FASA didn't always make their mechs good. Some were made to be crappy, and would inherit their crappiness when ported over to this game. A few might become crappy by MWO's specific mechanics, while rare others might benefit (like the Firestarter for example).

If I were MWO president I would actually make a lot more effort to make all mechs reasonably decent, and thus I wouldn't have to avoid adding any specific mech out of fear of it being poopy, but I'm not the president of MWO so I don't get to make that call. It is what it is.

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

You're only going to have 24 mechs in a typical match, and we already have 49 chassis in the game, averaging 4 variants a piece (almost 200 variants total), with 8 more (and their 32 variants) on the way. I don't expect to see most mechs any more than occasionally, with the most obscene performers quite regularly.

Even then, there's a point when mechs like the Commando or Kintaro are the giant robot equivalent of unicorns. They're kinda pointless right now, and I'm not sure when or if PGI will change that. I won't hold my breath on it.

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Now, as for some mechs being underperformers or over performers, there's this ongoing things called balance. The most extreme performers get brought down some to be within the acceptable range of power, while the most underperforming units get brought up some to be within the same acceptable range of power. It's an ongoing process that never ends. Kintaros might not be useful now, in your eyes (I still see a fair number of them around), but that doesn't mean they're going to always be that way.

On the other hand, I don't think the "superquirked" mechs should exist, and there are plenty of other ways to balance them. It's still quite early for the quirk system, and there's still plenty of balancing to do. That doesn't mean you just flat out kill something before it ever shows up.

Most balancing has slowed down, and most quirks/buffs in modern day are pretty "meh" ones (i.e. look at many of the resistance mechs or some of the Clan quirked mechs). Quirk assignment is also grossly inequal in some cases, like when you compare the Dragon 1N to all of the other Dragons (the former gets good buffs but the latter are still bleh).

Focusing on mechs that are good right out of the box means we don't have to worry as much about trying to buff them, because they might not even need it in the first place.

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 June 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

In general, there are a handful of really superior 'mechs, a huge amount of "about average" 'mechs, and a handful of really crappy 'mechs.

Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf the really superior 'mechs down into the "about average" pack, rather than keep the power creep building?

'Mechs that overpower every other 'mech take away variety.

Example question: How hard would you have to nerf the majority of light mechs to make the Commando or Spider 5V seem decent in comparison? That's the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not saying we should pick future mechs that are superior to the mechs we have, I'm saying we should pick future mechs that can put up a good fight against what we have now and give them a bloody nose before going down.

[Pariah Devalis]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 June 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

In general, there are a handful of really superior 'mechs, a huge amount of "about average" 'mechs, and a handful of really crappy 'mechs.

Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf the really superior 'mechs down into the "about average" pack, rather than keep the power creep building?

'Mechs that overpower every other 'mech take away variety.

Yes, but to a point. The game suffers partly because an acceptable level of lethality and an acceptable average time to kill has not been defined by PGI. As a result, that golden ruler by which you could compare to anything in the game does not exist.

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

My way or the highway.

That's what I get out of this. It's pointless to continue this conversation, because you're already espousing the typical montage of "This is the way I'd do it, and it's the way it should be, no matter what anyone says."

You're calling mechs DOA before they're ever in the game, you don't think any changes will happen with mechs because they're not the changes you'd be making, and you wouldn't put certain mechs into the game because YOU don't find them useful or effective or desirable.

EDIT: Oh, and the point that became apparent was the whole "if I was the president of MWO" line.

Edited by Sereglach, 15 June 2015 - 07:53 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

>Flamers that were fixed to the Center Torso of all Adder variants are no longer fixed.

cap-less mlx when?

[FupDup]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

...
EDIT: Oh, and the point that became apparent was the whole "if I was the president of MWO" line.

You're reading into that line way too seriously. It was a hypothetical, not literal.

[Spurowny]

the sudden and stupid restriction on the LTD modules, are unexpectedly sudden and stupid.

seriously though, why? I don't think my "shock absorbers LTD" on my panther was breaking anything.

[Wildstreak]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Mastery Bundles

4 New Mastery Bundles have been added to the store.

Griffin Mastery Bundle - 6010 MC
Trebuchet Mastery Bundle - 7560 MC
JagerMech Mastery Bundle - 6925 MC
Banshee Mastery Bundle - 9185 MC

About time these showed up. Trebuchet bundle costs a lot.

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

MASC can be equipped in any location with enough free critical slots.
MASC is always fixed equipment in OmniMechs.

Clans get MASC stuck in locations people will always know and can target despite a very slight tonnage/critical advantage.

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Gameplay
Conquest

The Conquest Capture Points have been updated for greater consistency between the maps:

Team A always owns the Gamma Capture Point at the start of a match.
Team B always owns the Sigma Capture Point at the start of a match.
Epsilon and Kappa are Neutral at the start of a match, and are located near the borders of the map.
Theta is Neutral at the start of a match, and for most maps is roughly located in the 'center' of the map.

Viridian Bog and Frozen City: Rather than being located in the approximate 'center' of these two maps, Theta is instead located an equal distance from both Gamma and Sigma, close to a boundary.

Its that time again! Time when the Conquest locations get randomly reassigned though this looks like how they used to be.

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

'Mech Fixes and Changes
JagerMech

AC/2, AC/5, UAC/5, and AC/10 scaling has been changed.
Spider

Fixed Center Torso damage registration.
Jenner

Center Torso hit mesh area has been decreased on the sides.
Adder

Flamers that were fixed to the Center Torso of all Adder variants are no longer fixed.

Jager, this may be ominous.
Spider, we will see how easier they die.
Jenner fans rejoice.
Adder, yay to an extra Energy spot.

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Fixed an issue where users would see the DropShip teleport across the sky.
Select 'Mech screen now shows if Active Probe is equipped or not.

If only I would stop seeing teleporting Mechs. I am currently checking if this is only on the 64 bit client.
I am sure some would like to see what cockpit items are in a Mech too.

[Spheroid]

Why no mention of the ECM Griffin? They are supposed to be available for C-bills tomorrow. Strange not to mention that.

[Wraith 1]

Jenner CT change is meh. The mech in general is still going to be really easy to hit, and now I've got to free up 0.5 tons to put armor back on my sides and arms. CT armor quirkage would've been easier to implement, and would've made the mech a tiny bit more better and more unique.

I'm honestly pretty happy that it's getting some attention, but it annoys me to no end how paranoid you guys are of making the Jenner, Shadowhawk, Cataphract, Victor, and Highlander even the slightest bit good again. Even if the Jenner were somehow made equally durable to the Firestarter by this change (LOL), it'd still pale in comparison to Ravens and Firestarters due to weapon quirks.

Steeringwheel whinerhive wins another round of 'dumb down the gamemode.' I'll miss all the strategies that involved stuff other than hiding for the whole game.

On a more positive note, the CTF-4X arm fix is making me unreasonably happy right now. The rest of the patch notes sound pretty awesome, and the MASC implementation is looking better all the time.

Eagerly anticipating more info on MASC, though I can't expect it to be available for any of the T5 mechs that are already released.

[Gwydion Ward]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Stats common to all MASC items:

• Acceleration bonus: +175%
  
• Deceleration bonus: +150%
  
• Turn rate bonus: +25%
  
• Gauge fill rate: 10% per second
  
• Gauge drain rate: 2% per second
  
• Damage threshold: 75%

MASC Item Stats


Inner Sphere MASC

MASC MK I

• Slots/Tons: 1 slot, 1 ton
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 20 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +10%
  
• Random damage range: 0.72 – 0.88

MASC MK II

• Slots/Tons: 2 slots, 2 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 25 - 40 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +10%
  
• Random damage range: 1.08 – 1.32

MASC MK III

• Slots/Tons: 3 slots, 3 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 45 - 60 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +12%
  
• Random damage range: 1.98 – 2.42

MASC MK IV

• Slots/Tons: 4 slots, 4 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 65 - 80 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +17%
  
• Random damage range: 2.7 – 3.3

MASC MK V

• Slots/Tons: 5 slots, 5 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 85 - 100 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +20%
  
• Random damage range: 3.24 – 3.96

Clan MASC

Clan MASC MK I

• Slots/Tons: 1 slot, 1 ton
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 20 - 25 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +10%
  
• Random damage range: 0.72 – 0.88

Clan MASC MK II

• Slots/Tons: 2 slots, 2 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 30 - 50 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +10%
  
• Random damage range: 1.26 – 1.54

Clan MASC MK III

• Slots/Tons: 3 slots, 3 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 55 - 75 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +15.5%
  
• Random damage range: 2.34 – 2.86

Clan MASC MK IV

• Slots/Tons: 4 slots, 4 tons
  
• 'Mech Tonnage Range: 80 - 100 tons
  
• Speed bonus: +18.5%
  
• Random damage range: 3.06 – 3.74

See you on the battlefield!


- The MechWarrior® Online™ Team

Heyas Dev's.

I just have one question about the above. From my understanding. the Clans were the first ones to have MASC.... If that's the case.. then why do the Clan's suffer from 'more' random damage, than IS Mech's equipped with MASC? And the IS ends up with a MASC Size that's actually bigger than the biggest Clan one?

Shouldn't that be the other way around? as the IS would be working with unfamiliar tech?

(No im not a "Clan's must be more powerful!" player.... but it honestly just seems backwards to me.)

Edited by ShadowWard, 15 June 2015 - 08:33 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Example question: How hard would you have to nerf the majority of light mechs to make the Commando or Spider 5V seem decent in comparison? That's the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not saying we should pick future mechs that are superior to the mechs we have, I'm saying we should pick future mechs that can put up a good fight against what we have now and give them a bloody nose before going down.

My point is that you don't nerf "the majority" of 'mechs ... only the ones that are in the "really superior" category, to close the power gap between overpowered and "about average".

The Commando doesn't completely suck. It's not great, but it's actually in the "about average" category. COM-TDK did pretty well in the Hero leaderboard. (JR7-O, on the other hand, is in the "really superior" category, compared to other lights.) SDR-5V will have a negative contribution unless / until scouting is valuable again.

The biggest problem with most "dead on arrival" predictions is that they inevitably compare the new 'mech to the current "really superior" 'mechs ... not every new 'mech has to compete with the TBR or bring something completely new (GRF-2N) to contribute to the game. However, if everyone feels like they must bring XXX 'mech to be able to compete, maybe that 'mech needs to get knocked down a couple of pegs.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 15 June 2015 - 08:44 PM.

[Sereglach]

ShadowWard, on 15 June 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

Heyas Dev's.

I just have one question about the above. From my understanding. the Clans were the first ones to have MASC.... If that's the case.. then why do the Clan's suffer from 'more' random damage, than IS Mech's equipped with MASC? And the IS ends up with a MASC Size that's actually bigger than the biggest Clan one?

Shouldn't that be the other way around? as the IS would be working with unfamiliar tech?

(No im not a "Clan's must be more powerful!" player.... but it honestly just seems backwards to me.)

They don't actually suffer from "more" random damage. If you look at the tonnage brackets covered by the MASC units, you'll see that IS suffers about the same, if not more damage.

It threw me off at first, as well. Don't look at the Tier of MASC, but instead look at the tonnage brackets they cover.

For example: While a Clan 25 ton mech is using the Clan MASC I, an IS 25 ton mech is using an IS MASC II. Therefore the IS mech will suffer more random damage then the Clan mech in this case.

[FupDup]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 June 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

My point is that you don't nerf "the majority" of 'mechs ... only the ones that are in the "really superior" category, to close the power gap between overpowered and "about average".

The Commando doesn't completely suck. It's not great, but it's actually in the "about average" category. COM-TDK did pretty well in the Hero leaderboard. (JR7-O, on the other hand, is in the "really superior" category, compared to other lights.) SDR-5V will have a negative contribution unless / until scouting is valuable again.

The biggest problem with most "dead on arrival" predictions is that they inevitably compare the new 'mech to the current "really superior" 'mechs ... not every new 'mech has to compete with the TBR or bring something completely new (GRF-2N) to contribute to the game. However, if everyone feels like they must bring XXX 'mech to be able to compete, maybe that 'mech needs to get knocked down a couple of pegs.

The Commando is probably in the lower end of light mech tiers. An "average" light these days would probably be something more like a Kit Fox or Jenner or something like that.

For me, I don't always expect something to 100% equal the best gundam, but be reasonably close. For example, I'm expecting the Wolfhound to be pretty decent as far as lights go because of being 35 tons, being humanoid (hitboxes), high torso hardpoints, many energy hardpoints, good engine cap, and one variant that has a higher engine cap that other 35 tonners (315 engine). I don't expect it to necessarily equal the Firestarter, Huginn, or Raven 2X, but it's gonna still match or beat most of the rest.

For more examples, I consider the Hellbringer to be plenty good enough even though it's still mostly subordinate to the Timber Wolf (less so since the laser quirk nerfs). I've made Warhawks work by (ab)using the power of Clan LPL and making full use of the many hardlocked DHS, even before this mech got quirked. Etc., so on and so forth.

But then there's mechs like the Mist Lynx or Vindicator...which are just sad.

Edited by FupDup, 15 June 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

I used to rag on the Mist Lynx until I saw someone run 4 C-SPLs on it and do 900+ damage on Alpine Peaks.

[huskinater]

YES! Finally my dream of small-pulse-laser-instead-of-flamer Adder is a reality!!

[Scout Derek]

Lol, I don't understand why Dropships need Cooldown Efficiency XD

Unless they can overheat and die too...