228 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

Typical Russ/PGI. He wants to limit team size and comes up with a idea that does not even do that but does frustrate the community instead. Easy to workaround, does not solve the issue....check.

Edited by Chemie, 29 June 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

I think allowing faction hopping mid-season is hurting CW more than allow units to grow very large. If PGI's goal is to have more premade groups in CW, then make CW more enjoyable.

Considering there's faction wide groups now, there's no point in limiting unit size as large "unofficial units" will still be in the game. Players that break into smaller sub units to gain the new incentives can still do the exact same things together in game as before, minus all having the same tag.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 30 June 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Necromantion]

This post clearly illustrates the amount of idiocy in the community and how so many people cry wolf yet cannot even think about the implications of what they are advocating for which is the exact reason why when PGI actually listens to the playerbase's QQ the ideas they implement are asinine.

Edited by Necromantion, 29 June 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[_Comrade_]

Russ as good intentions he is trying to stop the zerg cause any unit with say 300 members can win a planet just by zerging and getting juicy ghost drops and a victory here and there

But it won't fix anything cause most merc units play like actual mercs and simply just contract smaller units out. So a bigger unit can be like "hey join our campaign against so and so and you will get X amount of Cbills as well as our leadership", the real problem is first of all with a lack of population and too many factions and the fact that mercs have so much freedom to go where they want to go. In lore mercs rarely moved around, most had a preferred client like the Kell hounds preferred House Steiner and the Northwind Highlanders preferred house davion. At least make it so that you can either be a "clanmerc unit" or an "IS merc unit" but not both

Edited by Grimwill, 30 June 2015 - 08:41 PM.

[L A V A]

Interesting...

BWC has over 300 members. We have over 300 members because we are a gaming group which plays many different games, not just MWO. Our structure, which you cannot see by a mere representation of numbers, has individuals set-up in primary and secondary games. So, for example, my primary game is MWO but my secondary game is ARMA 3 (or Planetside 2... etc.). Secondaries make up the vast majority of the numbers on our rooster.

If you look at the numbers you will see that only 125 folks played during the Battle of Tukayyid. Ever since that event our player base has been in free fall. We are lucky to have 100 people in total play the game every week at least once, and these folks come from all 3 major time zones.

CW has become increasingly unpopular and our front line companies (primaries) are increasingly focused on group queue and competitive match play. We vary rarely play CW and when we do we are lucky to sustain one 12 man for two hours.

As a "regiment" in BWC, MWO is struggling to survive. Folks are wondering off left and right.

I fear that PGI is gripped by solving problems which have no bearing on issues pertaining to population. Continuing in this direction will only result in an even greater loss of folks playing the game.

[TWIAFU]

Grimwill, on 30 June 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

Russ as good intentions he is trying to stop the zerg cause any unit with say 300 members can win a planet just by zerging and getting juicy ghost drops and a victory here and there

Unit population numbers, even your hypothetical 300, are not accurate of ACTIVE players within that Unit.

This is another boogeyman that needs to be dispelled.

Example;

Unit I am in, we have 250 - give or take a couple. We field, on a high activity night, 10-15% of that! 24-30 tops!

So, with facts and real numbers, explain this new boogeyman to everyone.

[Soulstrom]

TWIAFU, on 01 July 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

Unit population numbers, even your hypothetical 300, are not accurate of ACTIVE players within that Unit.

This is another boogeyman that needs to be dispelled.

Example;

Unit I am in, we have 250 - give or take a couple. We field, on a high activity night, 10-15% of that! 24-30 tops!

So, with facts and real numbers, explain this new boogeyman to everyone.

Issue with you logic. That may be true of some larger unit, but we all know there is a particular one that is unbalancing the game (specifically CW) and arrousing/creating all of these issues. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong and more power to them, but when planet taking starts getting you actual continuious in-game rewards for capturing planets then the game will truly be broken if this unit isn't subdivided/ unit caps imposed causing penalties for these larger units.

I do realize that you could do ...1...2...3 etc... but if unit 1 takes a planet then the bonuses won't go to all of the other subdivisions of the unit, which means that there will be infighting within units and maybe not a steamrolling of houses and clans when they switch around.

Also fielding 24-30 pilots a night is not small potatoes.

Edited by Soulstrom, 01 July 2015 - 06:17 AM.

[Araevin Teshurr]

Monkey Lover, on 27 June 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

I don't see how breaking units up even matters .It will end up being ms1 ms2 ms3 and they will all attack the same planet anyway.

Game balance won't improve with smaller units. The game can only improve when they really get into creating fairer matches.
Take League of Legends or World of Tanks, both of those games have publically avaialble stats for players, through mods or external sites.
Anyone can join a match, see the players, see what their rankings are and know right up front if they are likely to lose, even WoT mods show the percentage chance to win the match before it starts. They screw you by locking you into a losing match unfortunately.

League of Legends allows you to see the players and their stats for the whole group, giving you a good idea if you are up against a more skilled group, AND you can opt to not click in Ready and instead leave a losing match.

These games use the statistics, the numbers are rarely wrong.

MWO does not allow us to know what kind of match we are getting into; there is no distinction between a good or bad player that we can see or use. MWO throws players into a match blindly, and many will attest the matches are very lopsided.

MWO needs to change the match making system to give players transparency and the option to leave a losing match before it starts, just like the competing games do today.

HOTs is beating out the competitors, LoL and DOTA because they listened to the players, fixed what was wrong, and created a game that was simpler with shorter match times - what the players wanted.

MWO can do the same, PGI - please take a look at your competitors products and incorporate their best practices. Don't waste time and resources learning what they have already learned.

MWO should be provide a match building queue, allowing the team captian to see player stats, and decide to remove that player or not; players should also be able to see the same stats, and decide to leave the match before it begins.

Edited by Araevin Teshurr, 01 July 2015 - 06:31 AM.

[Soulstrom]

You know what, never-mind. I retract my statment. Want to fix MWO forever? Implement PvE and then we never have to play against real people ever again!

Edited by Soulstrom, 01 July 2015 - 06:29 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Soulstrom, on 01 July 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Issue with you logic. That may be true of some larger unit, but we all know there is a particular one that is unbalancing the game (specifically CW) and arrousing/creating all of these issues. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong and more power to them, but when planet taking starts getting you actual continuious in-game rewards for capturing planets then the game will truly be broken if this unit isn't subdivided/ unit caps imposed causing penalties for these larger units.

I do realize that you could do ...1...2...3 etc... but if unit 1 takes a planet then the bonuses won't go to all of the other subdivisions of the unit, which means that there will be infighting within units and maybe not a steamrolling of houses and clans when they switch around.

Also fielding 24-30 pilots a night is not small potatoes.

The event turned out way more one-sided than our worst expectations. Some of the big unit loyalists are complete no shows and everything depended on them resurrecting for the event given who we knew were bolstering the Clan ranks. A lot of the Mercstar guys wanted to go Clan to run their wave 3 stuff, not just the ebon but also the 35 and 45 tonners coming. PGI should have easily seen that all the "active" talent would probably flock to Clan without a reason to stay IS vs. leveling their new shiny 'Mechs.

Wave 3 should have been launched parallel to some serious LP rewards to stay IS.

MS may have something big coming up but I cant any specifics, use your imagination.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 01 July 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Soulstrom]

Kin3ticX, on 01 July 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

MS may have something big coming up but I can specifically give any details, use your imagination.

If they do great, but all-in-all they are still the only unit in CW that can determinately change the map for a long-standing perod of time.

Not complaining and good-on-you. Unfortunately when planet taking becomes a thing officially in CW there will be a lot more complaining about -MS-

[Koshirou]

My idea: Don't limit unit sizes, but limit the number of player drops a unit can perform per ceasefire period.

That way, mostly casual large units do not need to break up, while the desired effect (limit the dominating presence of large units in CW) would still be preserved.

[Khereg]

Kin3ticX, on 01 July 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

MS may have something big coming up but I cant any specifics, use your imagination.

Please be sure to put all your speculation in the MercStar Rumors thread. You know, for the lolz.

[Khereg]

Jman5, on 28 June 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

I think ultimately what PGI should do is create benefits for both group sizes. For example upon capturing/holding a planet everyone gets a flat reward. This is good for big units. You then also get a secondary reward that is evenly distributed to every player in your unit that has played a CW match in the last week. This is good for small/active units.

I had assumed one way PGI would create incentives for smaller units is to have diminishing returns on benefits from tagging additional planets.

As a simplified example, let's say tagged planets earn your unit income in c-bills for your coffers. Let's say the first planet earns your unit 1,000,000 c-bills per week and each subsequent planet tagged earns 95% of the previous tag's value. So planet 2 earns 950,000 c-bills/wk, planet 3 earns 902,500, etc. This would make the benefits of tagging additional planets asymptotically approach 0.

For a relatively small unit holding 5 planets, their weekly income would be about 4.5 Million c-bills, or 900k/planet.

For a unit like MS, which currently holds roughly 50 planets, the total income would be about 18.5 Million c-bills, or 370k/planet - a much smaller per capita amount. Also, MS would only gain 77k c-bill/wk more by tagging a 51st planet. Not much of an incentive to keep going... Although, there's always the bragging rights for having the most tags - that will always be present, whatever the rewards system in place.

Just a simplified example, but you get the point.

[Richard Hazen]

Well I just had a game vs mercstar and the response I got when I asked whether they get bored was they don't particularly care about the general community, the only community that matters to them is their own little community. I find it quite hard to imagine a unit with that many members is actually made up of a lot of friends and not just a load of band wagoners.

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 01 July 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Soulstrom, on 01 July 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Issue with you logic. That may be true of some larger unit, but we all know there is a particular one that is unbalancing the game (specifically CW) and arrousing/creating all of these issues. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong and more power to them, but when planet taking starts getting you actual continuious in-game rewards for capturing planets then the game will truly be broken if this unit isn't subdivided/ unit caps imposed causing penalties for these larger units.

I do realize that you could do ...1...2...3 etc... but if unit 1 takes a planet then the bonuses won't go to all of the other subdivisions of the unit, which means that there will be infighting within units and maybe not a steamrolling of houses and clans when they switch around.

Also fielding 24-30 pilots a night is not small potatoes.

So, ALL Units have to suffer because of one?

No. Not acceptable in the least.

I did NOT say a night, I said a HIGH ACTIVITY night, like the Event. Normally it is half that, so about 5% or 8-12.

Your telling me, because I have 250 members and field 8-12 a night, our Unit deserves to be broken up. 50-100 MEMBERS each new Unit, and those oney fielding 6, on average, is a good thing?? Do understand if you break up a Unit into several small factions, those factions will still all be on TS, they all will still communicate, they all will still group up, they all still will drop as 12 mans as much as they can.

So, what will breaking up Units solve if they are just going to do the same thing anyways and punish them in the meantime.

[Kin3ticX]

TWIAFU, on 01 July 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

So, ALL Units have to suffer because of one?

No. Not acceptable in the least.

I did NOT say a night, I said a HIGH ACTIVITY night, like the Event. Normally it is half that, so about 5% or 8-12.

Your telling me, because I have 250 members and field 8-12 a night, our Unit deserves to be broken up. 50-100 MEMBERS each new Unit, and those oney fielding 6, on average, is a good thing?? Do understand if you break up a Unit into several small factions, those factions will still all be on TS, they all will still communicate, they all will still group up, they all still will drop as 12 mans as much as they can.

So, what will breaking up Units solve if they are just going to do the same thing anyways and punish them in the meantime.

The problem seems to be the players that left CW and not the ones that remain.

[-Natural Selection-]

So you think breaking down a 300 person unit down to a couple 50-100 person units will stop them from still coordinating drops on the same planet? well played

[Soulstrom]

TWIAFU, on 01 July 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

So, what will breaking up Units solve if they are just going to do the same thing anyways and punish them in the meantime.

Breaking up the units will make it so that, yes they will still drop together, but not everyone will have the same tags which means that these individual units (one larger broken into smaller units with different tags like m1, m2, m3) will not all reap the same rewards as they normally would. Menaing that certain smaller units of the greater one will be doing better than the others becuaase the planet incentives will only go to the pilots with that specific tag. Example...M1 takes the planet and M2 and M3 don't get anything from it. Unlike now where everyone is just M1 and everyone would get the benifits. Basically it could cause rifts and inter unit competions in CW. More depth and variety.

Doesn't really affect our unit, but I will greatly enjoy seeing how the larger units cope with this change. When the time comes for this to happen our Unit will adapt (as all units should) and we will rethink our recruitment stratigies.

Mickey Knoxx, on 01 July 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

So you think breaking down a 300 person unit down to a couple 50-100 person units will stop them from still coordinating drops on the same planet? well played

Nope. You will do that youselves when only 50-100 of you are getting the planet bonus and the other 300 are not.

TWIAFU, on 01 July 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

So, ALL Units have to suffer because of one?

Yes. Life isn't fair and that is how it goes. It is always the same; one person ruins it for everyone or in this case one unit ruins it for everyone.

Edited by Soulstrom, 01 July 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[Khereg]

Deimos Alpha, on 01 July 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Well I just had a game vs mercstar and the response I got when I asked whether they get bored was they don't particularly care about the general community, the only community that matters to them is their own little community. I find it quite hard to imagine a unit with that many members is actually made up of a lot of friends and not just a load of band wagoners.

There are certainly a variety of opinions within MS. We're not a cult, after all. Everyone who joins has their own reasons for doing so, and you're right up to a point. With so many people, we do get a lot of socializing internally and for many people, that's plenty. Others, like me and many others, go beyond that and try to build relationships across the larger player base.

The point about band wagoners would seem to hold true for any large organization. For MS, keep in mind that we're a collection of smaller units, many of which do have tight-knit cores. So, not so band wagon-y at that level.