99 replies to this topic

[PFC Carsten]

… it will die due to low player population and motivation.

- Ghost Drops are about the single worst thing you can do to player after they have waited 15-30 minutes in order to get into a game
- PUGs vs. premades is #1 demotivational while in game


I realize that this is core gameplay... blahblah... But it isn't. It's dying because of no new player influx and that leads to long wait times, many ghost drops and less motivation to play CW. I just tour the faction for the cheap Level-2-Rank Mechbays, bear with all the described oddities and leave again.

Just look at CW outside of events. It's a barren wasteland. Do you really want to continue that? Then please, use your usual "join a unit" sledgehammer-doubling-for-arguments. No, think! Use your brains. Realize that there's something totally wrong with CW. And nudge PGI to change that so they can keep earning money, we all can enjoy MWO and CW can thrive again.

[TWIAFU]

PFC Carsten, on 19 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

… it will die due to low player population and motivation.

- Ghost Drops are about the single worst thing you can do to player after they have waited 15-30 minutes in order to get into a game
- PUGs vs. premades is #1 demotivational while in game


I realize that this is core gameplay... blahblah... But it isn't. It's dying because of no new player influx and that leads to long wait times, many ghost drops and less motivation to play CW. I just tour the faction for the cheap Level-2-Rank Mechbays, bear with all the described oddities and leave again.

Just look at CW outside of events. It's a barren wasteland. Do you really want to continue that? Then please, use your usual "join a unit" sledgehammer-doubling-for-arguments. No, think! Use your brains. Realize that there's something totally wrong with CW. And nudge PGI to change that so they can keep earning money, we all can enjoy MWO and CW can thrive again.

Hard to do anything with CW when people STILL perpetuate the PUG vs Pre lie.

[PFC Carsten]

TWIAFU, on 19 July 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Hard to do anything with CW when people STILL perpetuate the PUG vs Pre lie.

Now, that's what I call argument. Or rather lack of.

[Mystere]

PFC Carsten, on 19 July 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Now, that's what I call argument. Or rather lack of.

There is actually a lot of truth behind what TWIAFU said.

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2015 - 04:41 PM.

[Ihasa]

TWIAFU, on 19 July 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Hard to do anything with CW when people STILL perpetuate the PUG vs Pre lie.

I know right? If the large percentage of the player base is solos, as in not in a unit, and premades are a very small percentage of groups, then how is it possible for these guys to have "premade stomp after stomp". Either there are lots and lots of premades, or there aren't and the solos are full of hyperbole and exaggeration. You can't have it both ways.

The seal clubbing baby eaters are not the boogeymen solos make them out to be. yes they win, yes they stomp. But it is not "premade after premade". It's premade every now and then.

[Mystere]

Ihasa, on 19 July 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

I know right? If the large percentage of the player base is solos, as in not in a unit, and premades are a very small percentage of groups, then how is it possible for these guys to have "premade stomp after stomp". Either there are lots and lots of premades, or there aren't and the solos are full of hyperbole and exaggeration. You can't have it both ways.

The seal clubbing baby eaters are not the boogeymen solos make them out to be. yes they win, yes they stomp. But it is not "premade after premade". It's premade every now and then.

The real bogeymen are the solo players having a hell of a lot of fun in CW.

[oldradagast]

Ihasa, on 19 July 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

I know right? If the large percentage of the player base is solos, as in not in a unit, and premades are a very small percentage of groups, then how is it possible for these guys to have "premade stomp after stomp". Either there are lots and lots of premades, or there aren't and the solos are full of hyperbole and exaggeration. You can't have it both ways.

The seal clubbing baby eaters are not the boogeymen solos make them out to be. yes they win, yes they stomp. But it is not "premade after premade". It's premade every now and then.

So... all the people complaining - rightfully - about the idiotic seal-clubbing were just making it up?

Look, the reality is that even if seal-clubbing only happened "now and then," it is still a badly implemented, and completely unnecessary waste of 30+ minutes of everyone's time. Most people do not have hours upon hours per day to devote to video games, so all it takes is one or two such worthless games and your time for the evening is shot or, at best, you're sick of CW and go back to the Public queue where's there's at least SOME attempt to produce a balanced and interesting game.

But it goes beyond that. The deeper reason so many people have completely abandoned CW is because of the attitude problems constantly displayed by the try-hards. It's bad enough to be part of some PUG group that gets rolled by a 12-man unit, but it is worse to listen to such tools brag about their "skills" and spew venom and insults all match. Then, they follow it up with a horrid attitude on the forms, shouting down any and all attempts to improve CW by removing the stomps because they don't want to lose their seal-clubbing mode. It's all "git gud or get rekt" crap from people who are arrogant enough to confuse being part of a coordinated unit and shooting hapless targets with "skill."

Too bad there's the 3rd option - go find something else to play aside from CW, be it the Public queue or some other game entirely. So now we are where all of the "bad players" said we'd be - a nearly dead game mode virtually conquered by a handful of units with absolutely zero reason to keep playing or to even care anymore about it. ggclose.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 July 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Ihasa]

I'm not saying stomping doesn't happen, it does. I'm not saying it's fun (for most). I'm not saying Suck It Up and Deal, I'm not saying complaints aren't valid. I'm saying the statements are contradictory and spewed all too often when it is mathematically not possible in this game.

And ggclose was a mock used by tools who do not represent the majority of premades. it shouldn't even be used sarcastically anymore.

[Thunder Child]

I don't mind getting Stomped. It's to be expected if I PuG the "Hard-core mode".
The issue I have with CW is two-fold. When I inevitably DO get Stomped, after a 30 min queue, I usually get endless amounts of grief about "GitGud" and "Why you using trash mechs?!? Get Meta or GTFO NOOB!". I'm there to enjoy the (somewhat limited) tactical gameplay of an objective based game mode, instead of Team Deathball in the Casual queue.
The OTHER Issue is that after my 30min Farmfest, I come out of it an hour later with a short temper, and an empty wallet.

Put simply, I will quite happily be a punching bag, if it was worth the time to sit in queue, and then get beaten to a pulp.

But right now, I'm getting better pay in the Casual queue. And that's saying something, because the average payout in Casual is terrible.

[TWIAFU]

Ihasa, on 19 July 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

I know right? If the large percentage of the player base is solos, as in not in a unit, and premades are a very small percentage of groups, then how is it possible for these guys to have "premade stomp after stomp". Either there are lots and lots of premades, or there aren't and the solos are full of hyperbole and exaggeration. You can't have it both ways.

The seal clubbing baby eaters are not the boogeymen solos make them out to be. yes they win, yes they stomp. But it is not "premade after premade". It's premade every now and then.

Drop in the solo playground.

Count number of players in a Unit.

It will equal half, give or take 1 or 2.

Edited by TWIAFU, 19 July 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

PFC Carsten, on 19 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

… it will die due to low player population and motivation.

- Ghost Drops are about the single worst thing you can do to player after they have waited 15-30 minutes in order to get into a game
- PUGs vs. premades is #1 demotivational while in game


I realize that this is core gameplay... blahblah... But it isn't. It's dying because of no new player influx and that leads to long wait times, many ghost drops and less motivation to play CW. I just tour the faction for the cheap Level-2-Rank Mechbays, bear with all the described oddities and leave again.

Just look at CW outside of events. It's a barren wasteland. Do you really want to continue that? Then please, use your usual "join a unit" sledgehammer-doubling-for-arguments. No, think! Use your brains. Realize that there's something totally wrong with CW. And nudge PGI to change that so they can keep earning money, we all can enjoy MWO and CW can thrive again.

I read this as

"I tried everything but joining a unit and in my expert opinion I will conclude that joining a unit is bad advice for a unit centric game mode"

[TWIAFU]

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

So... all the people complaining - rightfully - about the idiotic seal-clubbing were just making it up?


But it goes beyond that. The deeper reason so many people have completely abandoned CW is because of the attitude problems constantly displayed by the try-hards. It's bad enough to be part of some PUG group that gets rolled by a 12-man unit, but it is worse to listen to such tools brag about their "skills" and spew venom and insults all match. Then, they follow it up with a horrid attitude on the forms, shouting down any and all attempts to improve CW by removing the stomps because they don't want to lose their seal-clubbing mode. It's all "git gud or get rekt" crap from people who are arrogant enough to confuse being part of a coordinated unit and shooting hapless targets with "skill."

Nope, but now we know how often it happens and we can see overblown and exaggerated these claims were, and sadly, still are.

We know this happens 1% of the time, or less. What is going on the rest of the time in CW? The remaining 99%? It is your Skirmish(PUG) team stomping another Skirmish(PUG) team.

Why focus on something that happens so rarely when that is not even at heart of the issue? Why deflect and point fingers at something that may happen 1 out of 100 when you face something that happens 99 out of 100, your PUG group is stomping or getting stomped. End Unit v Skirmish and you just stomp or get stomped by other PUGS, and then where will you point your finger and who will be your next boogeyman?

Cannot use the 12man Unit stomp anymore, it's been busted. It's use will end in pointing out the actual, real, fact, it happens 1% of the time.

[Ihasa]

TWIAFU, on 19 July 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Drop in the solo playground.

Count number of players in a Unit.

It will equal half, give or take 1 or 2.

I have never played in the solo queue, ever. My buddy has when he visits and plays, and what I see is horrid. No thanks.

[Kin3ticX]

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

But it goes beyond that. The deeper reason so many people have completely abandoned CW is because of the attitude problems constantly displayed by the try-hards. It's bad enough to be part of some PUG group that gets rolled by a 12-man unit, but it is worse to listen to such tools brag about their "skills" and spew venom and insults all match. Then, they follow it up with a horrid attitude on the forms, shouting down any and all attempts to improve CW by removing the stomps because they don't want to lose their seal-clubbing mode. It's all "git gud or get rekt" crap from people who are arrogant enough to confuse being part of a coordinated unit and shooting hapless targets with "skill."

Too bad there's the 3rd option - go find something else to play aside from CW, be it the Public queue or some other game entirely. So now we are where all of the "bad players" said we'd be - a nearly dead game mode virtually conquered by a handful of units with absolutely zero reason to keep playing or to even care anymore about it. ggclose.

This is so loaded with crap the fact you are getting likes actually disturbs me.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

I think one of the major problems (if not the major problem) is the query system.
The alert function draws solo player (and pugs, even more inexperienced pugs) on drops which are heavily against thier odds.
If a premade signs in for a planet every pug will get a notification to join. But pugs, especially inexperienced (with trail'emchs on top) should not be paired with other inexperienced pugs. even more, against a premade team.
That's what the call to arms function does. If we could get the system to draw pugs into drops which are at least not totally against their odds (like attacks with friendly premades) a lot of grief on CW would not happen.

In short: group solo pugs with premades and/or group premades with solo pugs.

Hardmode would be to not let premades drop against pick up groups at all. premades of equal forces should fight themselfs. Full groups of pugs should do the same. I'm not sure if this would encourage to drop with smaller teams or if that would drive away larger teams, tho.
Though, premades which need to boast about stomping a full pug team (with super awesome trailmechs) are rather rare. But if you run into something like this it probably sticks to your mind more then all the other "normal" premade vs pugs stomps.

[Kin3ticX]

LOADED, on 19 July 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Hardmode would be to not let premades drop against pick up groups at all. premades of equal forces should fight themselfs. Full groups of pugs should do the same. I'm not sure if this would encourage to drop with smaller teams or if that would drive away larger teams, tho.

I could see this working if they gutted the map down to 4 factions and gave the solos their own kid beach instant action queue which paid LP but didnt impact the map.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

So... all the people complaining - rightfully - about the idiotic seal-clubbing were just making it up?

Not all, but many are.

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Look, the reality is that even if seal-clubbing only happened "now and then," it is still a badly implemented, and completely unnecessary waste of 30+ minutes of everyone's time.

I'd agree with you (gasp!) if CW were feature complete. But it is not. So either play it or not. PGI will then do what they have to do.

But for people to claim it's all seal clubbing every time all the time ... <smh>

Thunder Child, on 19 July 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't mind getting Stomped. It's to be expected if I PuG the "Hard-core mode".
The issue I have with CW is two-fold. When I inevitably DO get Stomped, after a 30 min queue, I usually get endless amounts of grief about "GitGud" and "Why you using trash mechs?!? Get Meta or GTFO NOOB!". I'm there to enjoy the (somewhat limited) tactical gameplay of an objective based game mode, instead of Team Deathball in the Casual queue.
The OTHER Issue is that after my 30min Farmfest, I come out of it an hour later with a short temper, and an empty wallet.

Put simply, I will quite happily be a punching bag, if it was worth the time to sit in queue, and then get beaten to a pulp.

But right now, I'm getting better pay in the Casual queue. And that's saying something, because the average payout in Casual is terrible.

Transfer to the Jade Falcon front. It seems to be a much friendlier environment. Heck, I level my mechs in CW and heard a "comment" about it only once ... and then I won the game for the team. That surely shut up that idiot real quick.

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[Ace Selin]

oldradagast, on 19 July 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

But it goes beyond that. The deeper reason so many people have completely abandoned CW is because of the attitude problems constantly displayed by the try-hards. It's bad enough to be part of some PUG group that gets rolled by a 12-man unit, but it is worse to listen to such tools brag about their "skills" and spew venom and insults all match. Then, they follow it up with a horrid attitude on the forms, shouting down any and all attempts to improve CW by removing the stomps because they don't want to lose their seal-clubbing mode. It's all "git gud or get rekt" crap from people who are arrogant enough to confuse being part of a coordinated unit and shooting hapless targets with "skill."

I have never seen that happen ever, most teams actually say "thanks for the match" after a stomp or "gg" if it was fun or kinda close and i have beaten 12 man groups pugging and vice versa. Groups i see are nice to PUGS because they help them play the game mode they want to play.


When i play in 12 PUG v 12 PUG people have on occasion complained that i was seal clubbing because i had 15 kills and 2500 damage early on before most even had 1000 damage, players that said because of me they couldn't enjoy CW. So because i play with 4 leveled mechs, modules and mechs i know how to play on maps i know, that i shouldn't play with / against PUGS when my team isn't around or should i play half arsed only to allow others to feel better about themselves?
People/PUGS complain about everything and anyone or any group better than them is the bogeyman which they refuse to play against as it ruin their fun. Maybe just harden up and admit seal clubbing happens as rarely or as often as it does in normal PUG matches.

Edited by Ace Selin, 19 July 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[R Razor]

Kin3ticX, on 19 July 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

I read this as

"I tried everything but joining a unit and in my expert opinion I will conclude that joining a unit is bad advice for a unit centric game mode"

That's because you have a reading comprehension deficiency............and that's from someone in a unit............he has valid points and neither you nor your buddy can change that with your sarcastic responses.

Ace Selin, on 19 July 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

I have never seen that happen ever,

Either you have NEVER played in a group drop with units or you are a liar.

[Chagatay]

Mystere, on 19 July 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

There is actually a lot of truth behind what TWIAFU said.

Certainly is, but the real issue is lack of incentives and/or cookies to keep people coming. I like CW and play it exclusively (almost always as a team of one) but I am a minority. It is clear bribes work* and they need to continue to bribe people to play as they bring about more change. Believe me, change is needed.

*Not the crappy here is a Hulu girl** or whatever because that won't fly.
**I love you Hulu girl don't hate me please.