289 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

I'll say only this to the whole "ACH/FS are OP" threads:

(Buggy hitbox issues aside - they need to be working without bugs on all mechs)

In my opinion (and I dont even play lights that much - mostly Urbies)....all other lights than the ACH/FS should be brought up to their level, so we finally have more than 5% of players playing the goddamn lights at all.

People are so used to lights [being different to play], they cant stand having a light mech, which is competetive to heavies and assaults. But that is how it should be, every class should be useful!

Your perspective is flawed. Not the ACH/FS are OP, all other lights just [don't play like I would like them to] at this moment.

When we finally push up lights to usage numbers of around 20%-25%, people will start to adopt and play differently in their whales to combat the [surats]. But at the moment they see it as an odditiy so they expect a nerf instead of to adapt their play.

I really can't take the ******** about 1-2 lights being "OP" anymore while seeing the queue at around 5-10% for lights. Seriously.

Lights << Mediums << Heavies << Assaults << Lights

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 10 September 2015 - 04:35 PM.
Language

[Kiiyor]

+1 for buffs to other lights!

Also, INB4 calls for "better role rewards" for lights. Lights need to be able to fight - there will come a point where being viable on the battlefield is far more important than match rewards.

I like that people fear a light mech. Viable light mechs being the paper to an assault mech's rock are one of the few things stopping this already top heavy game from degenerating further into assault warrior online.

[mike29tw]

I'd say the predicament the light mechs in right now is caused by PGI's lack of diversity when it comes to game mode. Right now lights suck because the game modes emphasize a lot on eliminating the enemy team, so naturally trading firepower and armor for speed becomes a bad idea.

If we had a capture-the-flag game mode with limited respawns, I imagine light mechs would certainly play a more important role than what we have right now, and more people will gravitate toward speed than firepower.

Just my 2 cents on promoting light mechs.

[Sarlic]

I agree on the buff part. But did you really had to start a new thread? We got plenty of threads about the ACH and what makes your opinion bigger then others when you can write it in the same thread...

[Impyrium]

Buffing other lights sound great and all but... some of those lights are going to need some serious super quirks to get them onto that level. And we all know how super quirks tend to go.

It's MWO's fault as far as I'm concerned, as long as lights have the singular goal of 'kill other 'mechs' and nothing else to focus on, they're going to be murky. Scouting is laughable on our current maps.

[LordNothing]

many lights are really good in the right hands. but i generally agree that something needs to be done to change their popularity. however i would do it this way:

buff scouting and relevant equipment (invisible tag, bap buffs, narc buffs, ecm detection range buffs) and bonuses (spotting, etc)
heat dissipation quirks for lights that cannot run 10 truedubs.
more light weapons (including light ballistics).

[TexAce]

LordNothing, on 04 September 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

many lights are really good in the right hands. but i generally agree that something needs to be done to change their popularity. however i would do it this way:

buff scouting and relevant equipment (invisible tag, bap buffs, narc buffs, ecm detection range buffs) and bonuses (spotting, etc)
heat dissipation quirks for lights that cannot run 10 truedubs.
more light weapons (including light ballistics).

the problem with those points is, that nothing of that is exclusive to lights. All other mechs could sport the light ballistics, Narc, Tag, ECM and so on). There is nothing for them to stand out except the small profile and speed, but thats not enough.

[Vlad Ward]

The problem with buffing/nerfing Lights:

[El Bandito]

TexAce, on 04 September 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

I really can't take the ******** about 1-2 lights being "OP" anymore while seeing the queue at around 5-10% for lights. Seriously.

Lights << Mediums << Heavies << Assaults << Lights

Yet, I saw just today a single Spider-5D managed to kill off FOUR enemy mechs by itself and win the game.
Lights are cute little murder machines in the right hands. It is just too few players are actually patient enough to play Lights, let alone be good at Lights.

Certain Lights such as the Mist Lynx do need heavy buffs to be competitive, but that's just the same issue with Trebuchets, Dragons, and Awesomes.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 September 2015 - 07:58 AM.

[KreepyKrawly]

The way I see it it's a lights job to find the enemy, report, target and harass if engaged, mediums to pin, distract enemies and support the heavies, heavies to disable and kill targets and assaults to defend or destroy fixed or slow targets.

What is needed is huge maps where the "capture" points aren't within spitting distance of each other, maps not designed to "funnel" gameplay, multiple random drop and target points. This would allow mechs to do their job. fatties would almost have to stay and defend, lights to find the enemy, mediums to support and heavies to kill. This would create proper tactics and gameplay.

Let's let the light scout do their job and make points for doing it, not for damage dealt and kills. If a light does no damage at the moment, it gets stuff all rewards, called useless and derided by everyone. A scouts job is to find the enemy and report. Not kill them all.

Give bonuses and prioritize points for a mech doing it's job and following orders, not to damage and kills as it is now. Yes, some will ***** and moan, but this is a team game, not who's epeen is larger...

[Brizna]

Disagree. Light in general are an all right class, some lights are OP and some suck just like with every other class.

[Tarogato]

I disagree. I wish there was an ulterior reason to play lights... such as costing less to operate. You know... like a repair and re-arm mechanic. That (and BV) were how they were balanced in TT. Here's how you do it in MWO: take the average C-Bills that all players in all light mechs earn. Compare it the average C-Bills all players in medium mechs earn. Apply %bonuses to light mech earnings so that they can compare favourably with medium mechs. (Then apply the same boost for mediums compared to heavies, and heavies compared to assaults. Help bring down the Paulconomy.)

You want to buff all other lights to the strength of present day FS9 and ACH? Talk about power creep and say goodbye to TTK. The FS9 was overquirked to begin with and the ACH needs to lose the quirks it already has. Back in the days before quirks, the JR7-F and the FS9-E were the best light mechs in the game, hands down. All light mechs should be balanced around those two unquirked mechs - the Jenner and Ember. Not above and beyond them, but at the same level. I seriously hope then when the rebalance hits the public test server that PGI has done this properly.

I'll say that again: buff all lights to equal in strength to the pre-quirk Jenner and pre-quirk Ember. Do not exceed that bar.

Edited by Tarogato, 04 September 2015 - 02:25 AM.

[Duke ramulots]

Lights are supposed to be garbage, nobody would ever spend the money on a massive Atlas if one spider could destroy it consistently. Not only do lights need a bit of a nerf, but knockdowns should be implemented to further reduce their efficacy.

[Bishop Steiner]

Buffing inferior Lights is fine. Broken hotboxes and hitreg on any mech is not fine.

Also, short of bugging Lights to stupid levels, Lights well always have the lowest representation, because they pack the least firepower, and when but broken, require the higher amount of skill, because the rely on speed and agility to survive, which requires active and constant In-N-Out, whereas Heavies and Assaults will always appeal the most because they are easier for bad players to post minimally viable stats and rewards in.

The waiting for match queue percentage argument had always been flawed and specious because it ignores the reality that most MWO players, like in any player base, are bad, and thus will always be most heavily represented in the lowest skill requirement options. Finesse well always require more skill to be effective, even with borked hitreg, and thus, be underrepresented.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 September 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[TexAce]

Tarogato, on 04 September 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

I disagree. I wish there was an ulterior reason to play lights... such as costing less to operate. You know... like a repair and re-arm mechanic.

You want to buff all other lights to the strength of present day FS9 and ACH? Talk about power creep and say goodbye to TTK. The FS9 was overquirked to begin with and the ACH needs to lose the quirks it already has. Back in the days before quirks, the JR7-F and the FS9-E were the best light mechs in the game. All light mechs should be balanced around those two unquirked mechs - the Jenner and Ember. Not above and beyond them, but at the same level.

the Jenner just doesnt work anymore in this kind of environment. The Powercreep went way above the lights, all other classes got quirked to godlikes, just the lights didnt.

Yes I want to push all other lights to the level of ACH and FS.

Or lets nerf all mechs except the weak lights down to their level to lenghten TTK. I don't bother. But that is the much harder way.

[Dino Might]

Tarogato, on 04 September 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

I disagree. I wish there was an ulterior reason to play lights... such as costing less to operate. You know... like a repair and re-arm mechanic. That (and BV) were how they were balanced in TT. Here's how you do it in MWO: take the average C-Bills that all players in all light mechs earn. Compare it the average C-Bills all players in medium mechs earn. Apply %bonuses to light mech earnings so that they can compare favourably with medium mechs. (Then apply the same boost for mediums compared to heavies, and heavies compared to assaults. Help bring down the Paulconomy.)

You want to buff all other lights to the strength of present day FS9 and ACH? Talk about power creep and say goodbye to TTK. The FS9 was overquirked to begin with and the ACH needs to lose the quirks it already has. Back in the days before quirks, the JR7-F and the FS9-E were the best light mechs in the game, hands down. All light mechs should be balanced around those two unquirked mechs - the Jenner and Ember. Not above and beyond them, but at the same level. I seriously hope then when the rebalance hits the public test server that PGI has done this properly.

I'll say that again: buff all lights to equal in strength to the pre-quirk Jenner and pre-quirk Ember. Do not exceed that bar.

My only question is, when will you nerf all other classes to equivalent standing, because powercreep has given us some seriously powerful mediums, heavies, and assaults. If you are going to roll back lights, you ought to roll back those other classes as well. I hate the powercreep overall and wish we could go back to a time when a 30 pinpoint alpha was rare and costly.

[GreyNovember]

I'm curious now. Is someone going to give us a valid reason that lights should remain objectively worse than other mechs, and that these buffs should not come to pass?

More lights means faster games for everyone, yes?

[TexAce]

GreyNovember, on 04 September 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

I'm curious now. Is someone going to give us a valid reason that lights should remain objectively worse than other mechs, and that these buffs should not come to pass?

More lights means faster games for everyone, yes?

Yes, but we have special whales snowflakes, which think exactly that. See below.

Duke ramulots, on 04 September 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

Lights are supposed to be garbage, nobody would ever spend the money on a massive Atlas if one spider could destroy it consistently. Not only do lights need a bit of a nerf, but knockdowns should be implemented to further reduce their efficacy.

Seriously dude? Just becuase you have a scissor (light) to your paper (assaults), it doesnt mean you cant beat the crap out of the stone (mediums AND heavies).

Your logic is the one, that makes this game bad.

Edited by TexAce, 04 September 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Brizna]

They are not objectively worst.

I see light dominating and deciding battles all too frequently. Another thing is how their contributions are accounted for in C-Bills and Score, not too well btw, but that's a problem with those formulas not how lights perform.

[Rampancy]

People feared the Jenner because despite being a walking CT it was mobile and well-armed for its time. Completely fair to fight against, but it could dish it out.

That's no longer the case with lights. They can absorb way too much fire, AND dish it out.