240 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

This Idea is Very Simple,

IS XL Engines have 3 Engine Crits in their STs,
Clan XL Engines have 2 Engine Crits in their STs,


=XL Balance Concept #1(Speed)=
Make IS XL Engines Survivable on ST loss,
then institute a -10%Speed Quirk per lost Engine Crit,
-
IS XL Engine has 3 Engine Crits in its ST,
so on ST loss an IS XL would gain a -30%Speed Quirk,
-
Clan XL Engine has 2 Engine Crits in its ST,
so on ST loss an IS XL would gain a -20%Speed Quirk,
-
Losing both STs on an XL Engine still results in death,


=XL Balance Concept #2(Structure)=
Make STD and IS XL Engines more Survivable vs C-XL,
by instituting Bonus Internal Structure to STD(CT) and IS-XL(STs),
-
IS and Clan STD Engines would gain a CT Structure Quirk,
giving the STD Equipped Mech +10-20 Bonus CT Structure,
-
IS XL Engines would gain a ST Structure Quirk(both sides),
giving the IS-XL Equipped Mech +10-15 Bonus ST Structure,
-
Losing a ST on an IS-XL Engine still results in death,


Russ on Twitter saying he would consider an XL Change,

Twitter said:

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 23h23 hours ago
@russ_bullock Alot ofTalk about XLEngines recently, would you Consider(C-XL -20%Speed(2Crits)STloss)&(Survivable)XL -30%Speed(3Crits)STloss?

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 2h2 hours ago
@russ_bullock is this a possibility you would consider for Tech balance? your thoughts Please?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 1h1 hour ago
@AndiNagasia in general I would consider changes to XL engine yes

there is a Fear of STD Engines becoming useless with this,
so if this is tested in the PTS and STD do seem to lose Viability,
the Penalty %s could be Increased or Structure Bonus Increased,

=Topic Poll=

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit-Spelling,
Edit2- STD Notation

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 19 September 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Mystere]

Side Torso Loss on IS XL = Death.
Side Torso Loss on Clan XL = -20% Speed. Second Side Torso Loss = Death.

Those or implement a better critical hit system.

Edited by Mystere, 18 September 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

a heat nerf of 20, 25, 30, 35 percent, is not going to have a major effect in a mech that just lost 50% of their weapons to a sidetorso loss. it will only make them shut down EVENTUALLY

not even a great proposal tbh - make nerfs to clan XL more severe, or don't do anything.


in fact heat nerfs won't do at all.

they need to be either mobility nerfs -20 turn rate

OR cooldown rates but that would be a bit unfair to clanners, i think they'd pick the -20 turn rate if they had to choose

Edited by Mazzyplz, 18 September 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Evan20k]

I like it. It's functional, but not too heavyhanded in either direction.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mystere, on 18 September 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

Side Torso Loss on IS XL = Death.
Side Torso Loss on Clan XL = -20% Speed. Second Side Torso Loss = Death.

Those or implement a better critical hit system.

people would still complain about Clan Survivable XL engines,
which is why i proposed this Compromise which both sides benefit,

Mazzyplz, on 18 September 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

a heat nerf of 20, 25, 30, 35 percent, is not going to have a major effect in a mech that just lost 50% of their weapons to a sidetorso loss. it will only make them shut down EVENTUALLY

not even a great proposal tbh - make nerfs to clan XL more severe, or don't do anything

first off im not talking about -20% heat, im talking about -20% speed, and IS XL Survivability,
the 20% Speed to Clans on ST loss will hurt all Clan Mechs not just the over achievers,

[LT. HARDCASE]

I'm a proponent for venturing away from the tabletop to balance MWO better, but removing IS death at the ST loss would pervert the game too far for my comfort.

Light Fusion Engines are the answer to the balance issue caused by the Clan XL engine, not making the IS XL something it never was and never will be.

IS XL that survives a ST loss obsoletes the STD and the LFE, like... who'd run anything else, ever?

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 18 September 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

people would still complain about Clan Survivable XL engines,
which is why i proposed this Compromise which both sides benefit,


first off im not talking about -20% heat, im talking about -20% speed, and IS XL Survivability,
the 20% Speed to Clans on ST loss will hurt all Clan Mechs not just the over achievers,

oh it was speed? nevermind then. i would rather it was turn, but sure, that does sound better

[Impyrium]

I think we should start off just adding negatives to Clan XLs rather than trying to buff IS XLs. I'm a little concerned this will all just leave standard engines in the dust.

[Evan20k]

LT. HARDCASE, on 18 September 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

I'm a proponent for venturing away from the tabletop to balance MWO better, but removing IS death at the ST loss would pervert the game too far for my comfort.

Light Fusion Engines are the answer to the balance issue caused by the Clan XL engine, not making the IS XL something it never was and never will be.

IS XL that survives a ST loss obsoletes the STD and the LFE, like... who'd run anything else, ever?

So instead of doing what's best for the game, you'd rather introduce another element that makes IS XL engines more or less obsolete? IS XLs should not be regulated to 6-million CBill flamers/AC2s just for the sake of "but muh lore".

Edited by Evan20k, 18 September 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Tastian]

-30% speed is a slap on the wrist and you would immediately see every IS mech take XL engines.

Although I understand you are trying to make IS XL closer to clan XL, you need something MUCH more severe - say -75% speed AND a heat penalty to give reason for taking a STD engine. After that give Clan XL something like -20% speed.

[FupDup]

Evan20k, on 18 September 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

So instead of doing what's best for the game, you'd rather introduce another element that makes IS XL engines more or less obsolete? IS XLs should not be regulated to 6-million CBill flamers/AC2s just for the sake of "but muh lore".

Well, the IS XL would still be mandatory on lights and optional on a few mediums...STD engines however would probably die out.

[MechaBattler]

I think they should add Light Fusion Engines. But also give the XL engine some additional hit points. And the standard even more hit points. So they're kinda worth taking.

[Andi Nagasia]

i can understand, about the Impending STD Extinction Fear, but this would be a starting point,
as long as Clan XL dont die on ST loss and IS do, people will always complain about Clan XLs being OP,
if this goes to the PTS and too many people stop using STDs the Penalty could always be increased to -15%,

so on IS ST loss an IS XL would gain a -45%Speed Quirk ,
-
so on Clan ST loss an IS XL would gain a -30%Speed Quirk ,

this would help Keep STD Viable for some Builds, that Fear of speed loss, Thoughts?

[Nathan Foxbane]

We just need better crits. Engine criticals should have health. You lose 3 engine criticals you die. Period.

[zagibu]

You know what would be cool? An engine that has NO crit slots in the CT. Perfect engine for catapults, Dragons, and other mechs with humongous CT problem.

But seriously, who would take STD engine anymore if you could survive ST loss with XL? Even severe penalties would be too good to forgo the freed tonnage.

[Andi Nagasia]

zagibu, on 18 September 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

But seriously, who would take STD engine anymore if you could survive ST loss with XL? Even severe penalties would be too good to forgo the freed tonnage.

like -45% speed, suddenly its a Choice you have to live with STD never lose Speed,
or XL you can Equip more Stuff but if you lose a ST your losing a great deal of Speed,

[zagibu]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

like -45% speed, suddenly its a Choice you have to live with STD never lose Speed,
or XL you can Equip more Stuff but if you lose a ST your losing a great deal of Speed,

Would still be worth it for practically every mech.

[Andi Nagasia]

im sure some people wouldnt want Legged Speed on ST loss and will take STD Engines,

[zagibu]

Only those who rely on speed and don't have an XL anyway, which is very few builds.

[Impyrium]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

like -45% speed, suddenly its a Choice you have to live with STD never lose Speed,
or XL you can Equip more Stuff but if you lose a ST your losing a great deal of Speed,

I don't really think it'd be a big choice, the vast majority of people would still take the XL.

If IS XL is going to survive loosing a torso, then I'd want to see really high speed and heat negatives that ensure you're only fighting on a sub-par level, bringing both your mobility and firepower down.