120 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Ghost heat was a cheap easy way of having a proper heat penalty, other than cooking your ct a bit, there is no real penalty for running hot mechs, and with alpha warrior being a thing it was needed..

People bleat about it because it makes alpha warrior slightly more risky ( not far enough to be honest )

A much better system would be a scale similar to the old board game with actuators stiffening up even locking making turning and twisting harder, with risks heat destroying weapons and causing explosions

[PurpleNinja]

False, I hate ghost heat because of my old hex PPC Stalker.

[MischiefSC]

I would love a heat scale. Love it. I think it would be amazing.

A lot of people would flip out, for the same reason that having to hit 'R' in the current PTS is apparently the most impossible overwhelming complication ever introduced.

[Revis Volek]

MischiefSC, on 16 October 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

I would love a heat scale. Love it. I think it would be amazing.

A lot of people would flip out, for the same reason that having to hit 'R' in the current PTS is apparently the most impossible overwhelming complication ever introduced.

i dont think its the fact of hitting R, its that they changed something that has been pretty constant since day one and everyone lost their **** over it.

I mean i guess i understand....not everyone is cool with change. The only thing i straight up didn't like was the reticle change...but even that if i never had it in the first place then i wouldn't care. It that everyone has to relearn the core mechanics of the game again and i think they are scuured or lazy? Just my opinions of course...

[ShinVector]

DarthRevis, on 16 October 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Sweet build, nice match, but why would you label the video as "Zoom Cheat"?

Are you in fact cheating?

Just quoting some posts in the pass with people calling Advance Zoom... Zoom Cheat... LOL...
Don't take the build too seriously though.. You run out of AMMO fast but your a pain to anyone can touch LOL...

[Revis Volek]

ShinVector, on 16 October 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Just quoting some posts in the pass with people calling Advance Zoom... Zoom Cheat... LOL...
Don't take the build too seriously though.. You run out of AMMO fast but your a pain to anyone can touch LOL...

I dunno, that PPFLD it has is pretty much unfair!

I was just teasing....i saw the irony and enjoyed it.

[MischiefSC]

DarthRevis, on 16 October 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

i dont think its the fact of hitting R, its that they changed something that has been pretty constant since day one and everyone lost their **** over it.

I mean i guess i understand....not everyone is cool with change. The only thing i straight up didn't like was the reticle change...but even that if i never had it in the first place then i wouldn't care. It that everyone has to relearn the core mechanics of the game again and i think they are scuured or lazy? Just my opinions of course...

Fear of change is always going to be an issue. Fortunately it tends to change with a little time.

[Revis Volek]

MischiefSC, on 16 October 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Fear of change is always going to be an issue. Fortunately it tends to change with a little time.

This is true....once they see the change is painless they often just go with it. Again...laziness. lolz

[Random Carnage]

Try telling a person looking from the outside what ghost heat is and watch their reaction.

Two mechs, equal in all ways except one carries 2 guns and the other 4. Both fire only 2 guns. The 2 gun mech then cools down faster than the 4 gun mech, even though they both only fired 2 guns.

Erm..what?

[Duke Nedo]

Random Carnage, on 16 October 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

Try telling a person looking from the outside what ghost heat is and watch their reaction.

Two mechs, equal in all ways except one carries 2 guns and the other 4. Both fire only 2 guns. The 2 gun mech then cools down faster than the 4 gun mech, even though they both only fired 2 guns.

Erm..what?

Erm.. What?

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

[Mazzyplz]

ghost heat had a positive effect on the game; but i hate it

why does my stock awesome need to be nerfed? 3ppc is what it was always meant to shoot;

and now that's not even possible; you can shoot 2 and then wait...... and shoot the third.
even if you chain fire fast you will get the ghost heat

WHY?

because there was OP mechs you have to nerf the awesome which was always meh?

bravo... complete fail.


and the worst part is that i can still do 3 LPL which does more dmg for less ghost heat; or i can shoot 2LPL + 3MPL for 0 ghost heat and do 49 damage with no added heat spike, all at the same ranges with the modules and similar cooldown.

the whole thing is just asinine


it should be replaced with a system that triggers ghost heat when you go over 40 dmg, not a system that punishes shooting 3 of the same weapon; otherwise you mess up mechs that you sell stock - that's the worst thing you can possibly do

and it's not like awesomes 3ppc is super OP, it does the same as double gauss; and double gauss runs cool -
3ppc is non viable.

WHAT A JOKE!

[Triordinant]

PGI thought they had to choose between getting rid of convergence or adding ghost heat. They opted for ghost heat.

[oldradagast]

Because ghost heat is just a clunky, illogical attempt to solve the pinpoint alpha problem from boated weapons.

A cone of fire would fix most of the issues, and hardpoint limits would have prevented them, but PGI refuses to consider the cone of fire... despite using it to fix jump-sniping, and it is way too late in the game to add hardpoint limits.

So, instead we're left with a nutty system that tosses random heat on things for no good reason. It punishes valid ideas along with bad ones, has helped keep the PPC useless for over a year now, does nothing about dual Gauss, and life rolls on as we consider the next random kludge - "ghost damage" for lasers on unlocked targets.

[oldradagast]

MischiefSC, on 16 October 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

I would love a heat scale. Love it. I think it would be amazing.

A lot of people would flip out, for the same reason that having to hit 'R' in the current PTS is apparently the most impossible overwhelming complication ever introduced.

For the nth time, it is not about "derp, you should lock targets anyway." The "ghost heat" punishment on lasers on the PTS punishes - again - the WRONG BUILDS. It does nothing to stop a fully armored Dire Wolf from waddling into position, getting a lock, and slaughtering whatever it targets. But it does nicely weaken mechs that depend upon speed and hit-and-run tactics to damage foes since now their damage will be reduced unless they take extra time to get a lock - time they can't afford to take before the dual-Gauss Skill-Wolf drills a hole through them.

Once again, PGI is "fixing" the wrong problems, nerfing things that aren't overpowered just to reduce the effectiveness of the "weapon of the month", and adding in yet more nutty, illogical mechanics because they refuse to address the problem head-on. Perfectly precise long-range alphas should NOT be a part of MWO. Until they fix that in a logical way that applies to all precision weapons (such as a cone of fire), the problem will not be solved and the game will still have serious balance problems.

[adamts01]

Random Carnage, on 16 October 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

Try telling a person looking from the outside what ghost heat is and watch their reaction.

Two mechs, equal in all ways except one carries 2 guns and the other 4. Both fire only 2 guns. The 2 gun mech then cools down faster than the 4 gun mech, even though they both only fired 2 guns.

Erm..what?

I suppose this goes to show how complicated it is. You're tier 1, I'm tier 1 and I don't have a clue what you just said. I agree it needs to be better explained in game. Hell, it's not even explained at all in game. There will always be a most powerful weapon. Ghost heat is a simple way to keep people from completely exploiting that weapon. Cone fire for grouped weapons is good, so is a lower heat cap. But ghost heat works.

[CptGier]

BEcause Ghost heat is just ********...

My 8 heat laser suddenly becomes a 48 heat laser because I fired 3 of them together, or I chain fired them 0.00045s to fast...

It makes weapons like AC2s bad because they need to boated to be good and use sustained fire to put out damage. GH on them just makes them kinda suck. Its terrible on weapons like PPCs because they might be PPD, but compared to lasers, they are hotter, slower, harder to hit with, generate a **** load of heat and are worse overall then lasers.

GH chain fire the CLPL, you can get like 26 dmg 7 times before over heating. PPC, you can get 10 dmg 7 times before over heating. 4 CLPL, you can actually alpha strike 1 time and not blow up..4 CERPPC, you make the mistake of chain firing 2 to quickly, you blow up...

GH is just stupid ....

[MischiefSC]

oldradagast, on 17 October 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

For the nth time, it is not about "derp, you should lock targets anyway." The "ghost heat" punishment on lasers on the PTS punishes - again - the WRONG BUILDS. It does nothing to stop a fully armored Dire Wolf from waddling into position, getting a lock, and slaughtering whatever it targets. But it does nicely weaken mechs that depend upon speed and hit-and-run tactics to damage foes since now their damage will be reduced unless they take extra time to get a lock - time they can't afford to take before the dual-Gauss Skill-Wolf drills a hole through them.

Once again, PGI is "fixing" the wrong problems, nerfing things that aren't overpowered just to reduce the effectiveness of the "weapon of the month", and adding in yet more nutty, illogical mechanics because they refuse to address the problem head-on. Perfectly precise long-range alphas should NOT be a part of MWO. Until they fix that in a logical way that applies to all precision weapons (such as a cone of fire), the problem will not be solved and the game will still have serious balance problems.

Nope.

It strongly favors fast, mobile targets by making them less likely to be locked before fire takes place. Lights TTK is up more than anything else.

There is no 'time to get a lock'. It's the same amount of time it takes to shoot. 1 click. Technically it's about 16 milliseconds. A little less. How long it takes you to identify an image and tell your finger to press a button.

This is also just the first iterative step. Perhaps we'll get a convergence delay for ballistics which would strongly nerf Dire Wolves for example. On top of that how about a delay for getting that lock based on tonnage? 0 for lights, 0.75 for a Dire Wolf, etc. Something to make effectively targeting and shooting a light with a raft of weapons at 500m very, very difficult. There's a lot of IW tools that this opens up that can change that metric of interaction and do things that straight stat nerfs can not.

[Lightfoot]

We got DHS 1.4 to do the same thing as Ghost Heat. DHS 1.4 didn't work, ruins gameplay balance, was replaced by Ghost heat, but we still have DHS 1.4. Why? Because MWO can't remove old nerfs even when it breaks the game weapon balance. DHS 1.4 is why most stock Energy mechs don't work in MWO. Even the hallmark mechs like the Awesome-9M, Warhawk prime, Adder prime would not work without Quirks to circumvent DHS 1.4

Get rid of one of these: Ghost Heat or DHS 1.4. I say DHS 1.4.

[MischiefSC]

No ghost heat and 2.0 DHS would reduce TTK dramatically and make the game a pure energy boat dream. A 30% increase in heatsink efficiency and no ghost heat, suddenly the 6 PPC Stalker is a pretty solid idea. Almost every 'high heat' weapon in the game would literally cool the heat it generated before it recycled to fire again. You would free up more weapon tonnage by removing DHS you don't need and add more energy weapons.

Without ghost heat but keeping the 1.4 DHS my wubshee would be significantly better. It's already way better than pretty much any ballistic build you can field other than a gauss dire. That's just the starter; the dire itself would be flat out clownshoes.

Fortunately there is no way this would happen so I won't waste a page of internets writing out all the ways this is a bad idea and just say 'we don't need to worry about it'.