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Zerg vs Borg


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Poll: Zerg vs Borg (79 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would Win in a battle of Zerg vs Borg

  1. Borg, Resistance is Futile! (42 votes [53.16%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.16%

  2. Zerg, We've been assimiliating since before you had micro circuits! (37 votes [46.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.84%

Which do you think could adapt faster?

  1. The Borg (44 votes [55.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.70%

  2. The Zerg (35 votes [44.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 44.30%

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#61 GDL Rahsan

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostLongsword, on 04 March 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:


No, they do adapt to tactics. They dont differentiate between the physiology, weapons, technology or tactics of the enemy. To them they are all physiology.
None of those things change with the orcs- they are much the same as they were ten thousand years ago, so the tyranids dont get their adaptation accelerated such as with the tau.

edit: Also, the Tyranids are capable of brilliant tactics. When its just tyranid warriors/tervigons/etc providing synapse control, they just swarm towards the enemy. When a Hive Tyrant is on scene, they demonstrate tactical abilities on par with space marine or tau generals. When the Swarmlord is spawned (A stress induced response) the Tyranid Swarm outmaneuvers and outsmarts Marneus Calgar.


Actually, I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that each Swarm Lord is kinda of a master tactican with thousands of battles won under his belt, probably from previous destroyed galaxies, but yeah you are right the Tyranids can adapt to different tactics or even weaponary. As for the Inquisitor's gambit, forgot his name, with sending a Tyranid Hive Fleet into a planet FULL of orks the stalemate there comes from the fact that the orks keep growing bigger stronger and smarter since they keep having "fun" with endless batles with the Tyranids and let's not forget the orks "clap your hands if you believe" field. So it's safe to say that if one side ever win you will have to handle either a Hive Fleet with the strongest type of Tyranids you ever saw, or a WAAAGH full of WarBoos Gazhgull Mak Uruk Tharaka and as cunning as WarBoss Gorgutz.

#62 Dihm

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:53 AM

Glad to see we, the 'Borg, are winning, thanks for the vote of confidence guys! :)

#63 Adridos

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:00 AM

View PostDihm, on 05 March 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Glad to see we, the 'Borg, are winning, thanks for the vote of confidence guys! :)



You know its actually Tyranids who is winning. We just cannot add our votes. :blink:

#64 Dihm

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:12 AM

Thus, not winning, based on the Charlie Sheen definition.

#65 Adridos

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:24 AM

View PostDihm, on 05 March 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Thus, not winning, based on the Charlie Sheen definition.



As an Eldar fan, I will answer you with three answers. All of which are true, yet horrific to know.

Charlie Sheen´s definition is wrong, because....

#66 Burned_Follower

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:05 PM

I wonder what would happen if the Borg assimilated Chuck Norris. :)

#67 Thunderbird

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

View PostAdridos, on 03 March 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:


Also, I do not remember the name of that sergant in Retribution, but he would get shot in the head by the comisar first time he spoke against the captain, but in the game, he continued to argue with him and noone seemed to care. :)

View PostGDL Rahsan, on 03 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Adridos the Sergeant you are talking about is sergeant Merrick, and he is a Catchan which explains the arguing, as why he wasn't executed, The commander of the Regiment Castro considered him a too good to be wasted with some pitty execution, while indeed most of the series didn't really relate to lore but there are some competent generals who usually let a good soliders argument slip if they can back it up with some action.


That Catachan Sergeant was probably confident of his survivability because of the unusually high amount of commissar who died of unfortunate "accident" while attached to a Catachan company.

And on the topic of the poll, I vote 'NIDS.

T.

#68 Polymorphyne

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:44 AM

Quote

Actually, I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that each Swarm Lord is kinda of a master tactican with thousands of battles won under his belt, probably from previous destroyed galaxies


Thats each Hive Tyrant- the Swarm Lord is a single entity, one mind that has existed since the beginning of the tyranid gestalt, that is respawned whenever the Hive Mind is hardest pressed in battle.

#69 Zerik

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:12 AM

Resisting the urge to join in with all the WH40K topic hijacking...

Not sure which one would win out in Borg vs Zerg, but I think the Zerg win out in quickness of consuming.

In one of the StarCraft novels I remember reading about a guy's dog who got hit by a parasite, and in almost an hour was mutated into a creature not entirely unlike a zergling that proceeded to tear apart its former master.

#70 guardiandashi

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:21 AM

View PostZerik, on 06 March 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Resisting the urge to join in with all the WH40K topic hijacking...

Not sure which one would win out in Borg vs Zerg, but I think the Zerg win out in quickness of consuming.

In one of the StarCraft novels I remember reading about a guy's dog who got hit by a parasite, and in almost an hour was mutated into a creature not entirely unlike a zergling that proceeded to tear apart its former master.

seriously?

in several of the star trek episodes/movies a borg infected human was a borg controlled drone in under 5 minutes and showing mechanical "upgrades" not long after that

frankly in many ways the star trek borg could be argued as a scary hybrid of warhammers tyranids and necrons

#71 Adridos

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

View Postguardiandashi, on 06 March 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

frankly in many ways the star trek borg could be argued as a scary hybrid of warhammers tyranids and necrons


Scary? :D :) :D :D

Both of these would tear them apart and if you want to know what a real horror is, you should try to imagine yourself as a gurdsman attacking them. :mellow:

#72 Catamount

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

If we're going to thread hijack then I'll just cite Species 8472, which could easily obliterate the Borg, Zerg, and likely every 40k race combined.

Their 50m long bioships, in one small group (9 ships), one-shotted a planet, as in, made it go away. Needless to say, they brought the Borg to their knees in very short order, and Voyager's plot device torpedoes designed to kill them didn't hold up forever (mostly because Voyager later gave them the tech as part of teaching them to come up with a defense, as part of preliminary diplomatic relations).


I've seen no evidence that the Borg would be wiped out by any 40k race. They're absurdly numerous, their ships are absurdly big (do you have any idea how much volume is in a 3km cube? Their biggest ships handily outstrip most or all 40k capital ships even for volume, at 27 billion m^3), and they're absurdly advanced. But rather than argue that, I'll just nip it in the bud and say "well fine, [insert scifi race of which I could pick about 50] could beat 40k easily"



As for who would win between the Borg and Zerg... The Borg are not a small race, so on number alone they'd be very formidable. Given how tightly they pack in, I wouldn't be surprised if they numbered in the quadrillions, though we really don't know. If we're talking just a massive ground war, zerg are probably more physically capable, but of course, the Borg could just obliterate them from orbit. They've scooped entire civilizations right off the face of planets; their ships are definitely not weak.

Edited by Catamount, 06 March 2012 - 09:07 AM.


#73 Adridos

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

View PostCatamount, on 06 March 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

do you have any idea how much volume is in a 3km cube? Their biggest ships handily outstrip most or all 40k capital ships even for volume, at 27 billion m^3


As much as the Wh40k is overexaggerating, the 27 miliards of km^3 is simply too much. It is a volume of a smaller planet (Earth has 1 billiard of km^3), and as such, it can't be built. The gravity is simply too big to move (if you get anywhere near a star) and it would suck into itself (it has holes for crew and everything there, but that is like separating the whole land from the rest of the Earth and hoping it will stand on pillars.

To sum it up, as much as crazy the stuff in Wh40k is, it CAN be posibble (UFOs, yay! :) ), while the Star Trek is complete rubbish (well, I respected it untill now, because it had some believable things [not travelling over the speed of light, ofc.], but this is simply too much). :D

#74 guardiandashi

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostAdridos, on 06 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:


As much as the Wh40k is overexaggerating, the 27 miliards of km^3 is simply too much. It is a volume of a smaller planet (Earth has 1 billiard of km^3), and as such, it can't be built. The gravity is simply too big to move (if you get anywhere near a star) and it would suck into itself (it has holes for crew and everything there, but that is like separating the whole land from the rest of the Earth and hoping it will stand on pillars.

To sum it up, as much as crazy the stuff in Wh40k is, it CAN be posibble (UFOs, yay! :) ), while the Star Trek is complete rubbish (well, I respected it untill now, because it had some believable things [not travelling over the speed of light, ofc.], but this is simply too much). :D

sorry I hate to say it (well not really but being polite) but you do not know what you are talking about

the area of the surface ot the planet earth is
Surface area: 510,072,000 km²
148,940,000 km² land (29.2 %) 361,132,000 km² water (70.8 %)
or
Approx. 120 trillion square meters of LAND if you then make it into blocks (1 meter tall) the volume of the derived area would still be litterally millions of times what is in a borg cube. a better discription of a borg cube would be a large city or a bit bigger of an area

#75 Catamount

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostAdridos, on 06 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:


As much as the Wh40k is overexaggerating, the 27 miliards of km^3 is simply too much. It is a volume of a smaller planet (Earth has 1 billiard of km^3), and as such, it can't be built. The gravity is simply too big to move (if you get anywhere near a star) and it would suck into itself (it has holes for crew and everything there, but that is like separating the whole land from the rest of the Earth and hoping it will stand on pillars.

To sum it up, as much as crazy the stuff in Wh40k is, it CAN be posibble (UFOs, yay! :D ), while the Star Trek is complete rubbish (well, I respected it untill now, because it had some believable things [not travelling over the speed of light, ofc.], but this is simply too much). :mellow:


I think your math is just slightly off there :)

27 billion cubic meters (not kilometers) is the size of a cube 3km on each side. (3000m*3000m*3000m), hardly the size of a planet, even a small one (unlike, you know, STAR WARS), but much bigger than, say, the average Imperium capital ship, whch is in the realm of 4km long, but only a few hundred meters tall and wide, on average (I gave more detailed estimates in the big vs thread).

I could always deride the comment about 40k, of all franchises, being realistic (compared to any other franchise), but I'll take that comment as a joking troll, since, you know, it's 40k :D Also 8472 still > all, unless we're done hijacking the thread, that is



View Postguardiandashi, on 06 March 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

a better discription of a borg cube would be a large city or a bit bigger of an area


Once, in MS Flight Simulator 98, I made a custom "plane" just by having a 3km wide cube, and then sticking the Borg texture from Armada II onto it. You can imagine the reactions I got in multiplayer, because you're dead on; it was the size of downtown Chicago :D

Edited by Catamount, 06 March 2012 - 02:47 PM.


#76 WhiteTigger

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

View PostCatamount, on 06 March 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I've seen no evidence that the Borg would be wiped out by any 40k race. They're absurdly numerous, their ships are absurdly big (do you have any idea how much volume is in a 3km cube? Their biggest ships handily outstrip most or all 40k capital ships even for volume, at 27 billion m^3), and they're absurdly advanced. But rather than argue that, I'll just nip it in the bud and say "well fine, [insert scifi race of which I could pick about 50] could beat 40k easily"



I believe you have inadequately researched WH40K scale and size. Straight out of the BFG rulebook, it mentions that imperial battleships (the standard capital ship against all others say they are 'roughly the same size' as is 20 Mm** (That would be mega-meters, not millimeters) That is roughly 20,000,000 meters long from prow to stern, and suddenly makes that 3km cube look kinda small. Do you have any idea how much cubic meters must be in a ship that is 20,000 km long?

I can see how the thread got hijacked fairly easily seeing as how the Zerg when first released were (to WH40K players at least) so obviously a spinnoff/copy of the Tyranid.

I find these "which would win out" threads so tiresome. Without some commonality to base things on, it usually boils down to "X would win because they're my favorite and I like them more than Y" You can't argue for or against an argument like that.

** Check out http://battlefleet-g...i/Imperial_Navy for an online source for my above quoted size

Edited by WhiteTigger, 06 March 2012 - 02:54 PM.


#77 Catamount

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostWhiteTigger, on 06 March 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:



I believe you have inadequately researched WH40K scale and size. Straight out of the BFG rulebook, it mentions that imperial battleships (the standard capital ship against all others say they are 'roughly the same size' as is 20 Mm** (That would be mega-meters, not millimeters) That is roughly 20,000,000 meters long from prow to stern, and suddenly makes that 3km cube look kinda small. Do you have any idea how much cubic meters must be in a ship that is 20,000 km long?

I can see how the thread got hijacked fairly easily seeing as how the Zerg when first released were (to WH40K players at least) so obviously a spinnoff/copy of the Tyranid.

I find these "which would win out" threads so tiresome. Without some commonality to base things on, it usually boils down to "X would win because they're my favorite and I like them more than Y" You can't argue for or against an argument like that.

** Check out http://battlefleet-g...i/Imperial_Navy for an online source for my above quoted size


Your source neither definitely cites any sources, nor makes sense.

Trillions of battleships? Each with billions of crew? You do the math; that's sextillions of people. The Imperium doesn't have that many people, let ship crew. For the record, the Imperium has about a million planets (so each planet would have to have quadrillions of people, or put another way, so many people, that millions would have to live in every single square meter of space (assuming each to be an Earth-sized planet).

Then this is claiming that each and every one of those ships is about twice as wide as a PLANET (or put another way, about 170 death stars across).

You'll note none of the 40k wikis that cite specific sources or their information remotely agree with such assertions. That's probably because Games Workshop settled down on exaggerating those figures orders of magnitude beyond any reason or believability.



Now, Games Workshop is HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY inconsistent on the point of things like ship sizes, such that there really isn't a solidly canonical size, but trillions of ships the size of planets doesn't remotely fit the rest of the canon.

But please, this better belongs on the vs thread, not here.

Edited by Catamount, 06 March 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#78 Catamount

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

So yeah, how about them Borg and Zerg?

Just how do Zerg travel between planets? Do they have some kind of fleet or something? (admittedly, I'm Starcraft stupid)

#79 WhiteTigger

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostCatamount, on 06 March 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:


Your source neither definitely cites any sources, nor makes sense.

Trillions of battleships? Each with billions of crew? You do the math; that's sextillions of people. The Imperium doesn't have that many people, let ship crew. For the record, the Imperium has about a million planets (so each planet would have to have quadrillions of people, or put another way, so many people, that millions would have to live in every single square meter of space (assuming each to be an Earth-sized planet).

Then this is claiming that each and every one of those ships is about twice as wide as a PLANET (or put another way, about 170 death stars across).

You'll note none of the 40k wikis that cite specific sources or their information remotely agree with such assertions. That's probably because Games Workshop settled down on exaggerating those figures orders of magnitude beyond any reason or believability.



Now, Games Workshop is HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY inconsistent on the point of things like ship sizes, such that there really isn't a solidly canonical size, but trillions of ships the size of planets doesn't remotely fit the rest of the canon.

But please, this better belongs on the vs thread, not here.


Hrm, things deteriorate rapidly. So, "I don't believe it, therefore I won't even consider your facts" is now a valid argument? Population in a starfaring civilization would include more than just the population of planets, which is indeed considerable. Remember, our own 3rd rock from the sun is fairly small as celestial bodies go. But if each ship supported populations numbering in the billions, each would then be considered it's own world in some respects. Just more mobile. Remember, the Emperor of Man inside his "golden throne" requires the sacrifice of "thousands of psychics per day" just to keep sustaining him. Population of the empire would have to be about that big just to manufacture that many psychics per day.

However, with all that being said, no I'm not saying that the numbers are exactly accurate. Just that your imagined "my borg cube is bigger than your imperial battleship" estimate was off according to published 'fluff' that I had seen.

As for HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY inconsistent, so is each and every Sci-Fi franchise that has more than one author, as well as some that do only have one author. Which only lends credence to my argument that arguing the 'who is better' is relatively pointless. It's all based on opinion, conjecture, and emotion.

#80 Catamount

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostWhiteTigger, on 06 March 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:


Hrm, things deteriorate rapidly. So, "I don't believe it, therefore I won't even consider your facts" is now a valid argument? Population in a starfaring civilization would include more than just the population of planets, which is indeed considerable. Remember, our own 3rd rock from the sun is fairly small as celestial bodies go. But if each ship supported populations numbering in the billions, each would then be considered it's own world in some respects. Just more mobile. Remember, the Emperor of Man inside his "golden throne" requires the sacrifice of "thousands of psychics per day" just to keep sustaining him. Population of the empire would have to be about that big just to manufacture that many psychics per day.

However, with all that being said, no I'm not saying that the numbers are exactly accurate. Just that your imagined "my borg cube is bigger than your imperial battleship" estimate was off according to published 'fluff' that I had seen.

As for HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY inconsistent, so is each and every Sci-Fi franchise that has more than one author, as well as some that do only have one author. Which only lends credence to my argument that arguing the 'who is better' is relatively pointless. It's all based on opinion, conjecture, and emotion.


Since it's apparently too much to ask for you to take this to the proper thread, I've posted my reply there, to stop further derailing of this thread.

If you want to discuss 40k further, we already have a place for that; it's only fair to the OP to take that discussion there.

Edited by Catamount, 06 March 2012 - 05:10 PM.






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