37 replies to this topic

[Brollocks]

So I finally took a dive into CW after almost 2500 public queue matches in the 3-4 months I've been playing MWO. Wasn't expecting to have much fun because of the complaining about groups, maps and waiting times, so I didn't rush and built up my drop deck, plus much of but not all of the modules I needed.

Barring the one free win we had due to no enemy team turning up, I've been a part of I think 8 losses. Some due to being up against organized groups like RDS or CWI, others just being out fought by pug clans.

But I have no complaints and not going to say anything derogatory about it apart from one problem I agree with that I've seen posted here before. The maps. Some of them look great, but there are too few strategical choices and every game is forced through the same routes. Can't really say how to fix that because a more open battlefield would give organized groups a much bigger advantage, but I'd like to see some changes there, especially on a few maps where the choke points are incredibly tight. Perhaps bigger choke points, tunnels (like in frozen city), bridges and even destructible buildings to clear a path, all converging through the same large choke point, would give far more options.

Other than that I'm really enjoying CW, even with the seemingly endless losses. Our pugs aren't falling over and dying for the most part, we're putting up good fights and even pushing organized groups to the point where we may snatch a win. It's all about fun for me, win or lose, as long as we fight well, therefore having fun, I'm not finding CW frustrating at all. I'd like to see CW, at some point in the future be what MWO is, instead of the current public matches, because it is far more fun than that, and dropping with 4 'mechs and fighting for 20+ minutes feels so much more like a proper war.

[El Bandito]

It is all about finding a decent group vs playing with pugs. The difference is like day and night. Once I finish eliting my Blackjacks, I am going to play CW for a while.

Oh, and Boreal Vault is the worst CW map ever.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 November 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[Novakaine]

It's not the map it's the mechs.
10 Clan battlemechs vs 12 IS battlemechs.
Un-nerf the Clan mechs, but let the IS have the numerical advantage.
More in keep with lore, and balance it all by tonnage.
Or at PGI could test it out.

[DAYLEET]

Muddy Funster, on 23 November 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

The maps. Some of them look great, but there are too few strategical choices and every game is forced through the same routes. Can't really say how to fix that because a more open battlefield would give organized groups a much bigger advantage,

Id like the Base to be attackable from all sides and the attacker could chose to drop anywhere around the base on the first drop, then it's locked there. Would liven up the gameplay, would actually have do some real recon if you don't want to be rushed from one side without proper defence.

Edited by DAYLEET, 23 November 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

CW is only a SHADOW of what was promised 3 years ago. Many of us are still extremely ticked that this POS mode has not had any major upgrades since they launched it.

There is literally NO reason to play it.

[Davegt27]

I would not take a BJ into CW

[Spheroid]

@Dave: BJ-1X is meta. I would take it over any mech up to ten tons greater in CW. Blackjacks are widely praised.

[Kali Rinpoche]

BJ-1X is a superb CW mech. If it had JJ's it would be illegal. Good alpha and manageable heat.

[Brollocks]

Darian DelFord, on 23 November 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

There is literally NO reason to play it.

It is comments like this which put people off from trying it. If I'd known it was as much fun as it is I would have put more effort into building my drop deck and buying the extra modules quicker rather than just buying more mechs to skill up.

Now I've tried it I can ignore these comments and think of them as what they are. Just opinions which I don't share.

I do understand that progress has been very slow, but no one is helping by putting off new players from joining in CW.

[Death Proof]

CW is great if you're with a unit that knows how to play. Otherwise, it's depressing and frustrating.

[monk]

There are a few issues with CW, but the biggest (besides there being little to no point of playing the mode unless you just like the mode in general) is that the games are highly static. Almost every time I play it's the same thing based on the map. Because there is a funnel/lane design and little to no random nature in the maps, the players tend to find the "best" strategies and do the same thing over and over. This doesn't vary much from the non-CW modes, but at least those maps aren't so lane restricted.

Other core issues:

- No point (already noted). Really, there's not point aside from the game mode itself. CW should have been tied into an economy, R&R, etc.
- Super confusing UI design. Every time I look at it I think...this was the clearest way they could present the information?
- No PUG solo drop mode (I'm sure someone likes getting farmed...but that's not most of us). This should basically be the "Quick Drop" option for when you just want to get into the first CW game for your faction that is available.
- Etc.

Honestly, the mode should have been awesome, but it's half done. That seems to be the core issue with a lot of MWO features. None of the other game modes (except skirmish) feel completed either. It's just bizarre. I don't know why they haven't spent some time making Assault and Conquest fun. I realize they had the great turret experiment...but that didn't make any sense at all. No sane person would think assaulting a base with built in defenses as well as equal sized force was a good idea. There needed to be more mode to the mode. But anyhow. CW. Fun. Sort of. Should be so much more.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I enjoyed CW quite a bit as well, its a nice change compared to pub play.

Only part that gets frustrating, is the Cbill rewards, Playing IS is usually a death sentence, and too many chokepoints and gameplay can get a bit stale because of it.

[Davegt27]

Don't get me wrong I got 1400 damage in my BJ but it does not have enough armor
Flipping laser vomit Grasshoppers have been kicking my butt lately

[Coolant]

Darian DelFord, on 23 November 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

CW is only a SHADOW of what was promised 3 years ago. Many of us are still extremely ticked that this POS mode has not had any major upgrades since they launched it.

There is literally NO reason to play it.

So glad the OP made up their own mind and not poisoned by yours. How does it feel to have no negative influence at all in some players? Powerless?

Muddy Funster, on 23 November 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

It is comments like this which put people off from trying it. If I'd known it was as much fun as it is I would have put more effort into building my drop deck and buying the extra modules quicker rather than just buying more mechs to skill up.

Now I've tried it I can ignore these comments and think of them as what they are. Just opinions which I don't share.

I do understand that progress has been very slow, but no one is helping by putting off new players from joining in CW.

Glad you enjoy it OP, if not for the long games I would play more. When I have played, I've had a blast.

Edited by Coolant, 23 November 2015 - 09:12 PM.

[Sylonce]

I think that when it comes to any type of game, as long as you are enjoying it, that is all that matters.

Not much a fan of CW myself, and even left a great group of guys because of it, but then I tend to enjoy the solidarity of pugging in solo que myself

[GRiPSViGiL]

Cool story bro. There isn't a reason to play CW which is it's biggest problem. No macro part of the game. No reason to fight for planets, no economy, just all around pointless.

[adamts01]

I never thought it was fun. I was part of plenty of 12 man drops and they were almost always stomps in our favor. Group drops are less frustrating but not more fun because of that. My best match was 2400 damage in a single wubberine, clan OP? Matches were just as boring Clan Vs. Clan. On top of all that, there's no incentive for any of it. I want it to do well and become something special and look forward to being a part of it if that happens. That's a big if. But I'm still rooting for it.

[Adamski]

Novakaine, on 23 November 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

It's not the map it's the mechs.
10 Clan battlemechs vs 12 IS battlemechs.
Un-nerf the Clan mechs, but let the IS have the numerical advantage.
More in keep with lore, and balance it all by tonnage.
Or at PGI could test it out.

Reasons that wont work:
1) Asymetrical teams mean that Clans & IS are no longer balanced for public queue where 80-90% of people play, which means the matchmaker needs to be redone to account for that.

2) If you try to balance through superior numbers, that means you need the MAJORITY of players to understand they are playing weaker mechs, and play cannon fodder. The MAJORITY of players will not do this.

3) Per LORE, the Battle of Tukkayid had ComStar outnumber the Clans 4:1 in their initial declaration of force. The Clans then bid away more of their numbers for drop positions. Which would mean the IS would need to outnumber the Clans 5:1 at least if you have un-nerfed Clan mechs. (ComStar was also using mostly Star League era Lostech, which is what most IS players use now with DHS, Endo, etc)

4) Without quirks, there are obvious winners and losers of the hitbox, model, hardpoint lotteries, and then on the Clan side, there are also issues with some mechs missing their structure & armor upgrades, meaning they would be permanently outclassed without quirks.

With all these reasons, it makes sense from a development standpoint to stick with the 1:1 ratio, and use quirks to buff / nerf, or to change base equipment damage/heat stats for balance.

[Vellron2005]

Muddy Funster, on 23 November 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

So I finally took a dive into CW after almost 2500 public queue matches in the 3-4 months I've been playing MWO. Wasn't expecting to have much fun because of the complaining about groups, maps and waiting times, so I didn't rush and built up my drop deck, plus much of but not all of the modules I needed.

Barring the one free win we had due to no enemy team turning up, I've been a part of I think 8 losses. Some due to being up against organized groups like RDS or CWI, others just being out fought by pug clans.

But I have no complaints and not going to say anything derogatory about it apart from one problem I agree with that I've seen posted here before. The maps. Some of them look great, but there are too few strategical choices and every game is forced through the same routes. Can't really say how to fix that because a more open battlefield would give organized groups a much bigger advantage, but I'd like to see some changes there, especially on a few maps where the choke points are incredibly tight. Perhaps bigger choke points, tunnels (like in frozen city), bridges and even destructible buildings to clear a path, all converging through the same large choke point, would give far more options.

Other than that I'm really enjoying CW, even with the seemingly endless losses. Our pugs aren't falling over and dying for the most part, we're putting up good fights and even pushing organized groups to the point where we may snatch a win. It's all about fun for me, win or lose, as long as we fight well, therefore having fun, I'm not finding CW frustrating at all. I'd like to see CW, at some point in the future be what MWO is, instead of the current public matches, because it is far more fun than that, and dropping with 4 'mechs and fighting for 20+ minutes feels so much more like a proper war.

Firstly, as a member of CWI... sorry for the stomps..

I know what it's like.. not fun as much when you see you've got very little chance to organize pugs against a well-coordinated 12man premade..

That is why I suggest.. if you want to REALLY experience the full CW experience, get into a unit and be a part of that 12 man premade.. its immensly more fun to play with proper chain of command, organization and leadership.

For me, like you stated.. CW should be what MWO is really about.. PUG drops should be "arcade mode" and CW "campaign mode"..

Hope Phase 3 makes it so..

[Vellron2005]

Adamski, on 24 November 2015 - 12:57 AM, said:

Reasons that wont work:
1) Asymetrical teams mean that Clans & IS are no longer balanced for public queue where 80-90% of people play, which means the matchmaker needs to be redone to account for that.

2) If you try to balance through superior numbers, that means you need the MAJORITY of players to understand they are playing weaker mechs, and play cannon fodder. The MAJORITY of players will not do this.

3) Per LORE, the Battle of Tukkayid had ComStar outnumber the Clans 4:1 in their initial declaration of force. The Clans then bid away more of their numbers for drop positions. Which would mean the IS would need to outnumber the Clans 5:1 at least if you have un-nerfed Clan mechs. (ComStar was also using mostly Star League era Lostech, which is what most IS players use now with DHS, Endo, etc)

4) Without quirks, there are obvious winners and losers of the hitbox, model, hardpoint lotteries, and then on the Clan side, there are also issues with some mechs missing their structure & armor upgrades, meaning they would be permanently outclassed without quirks.

With all these reasons, it makes sense from a development standpoint to stick with the 1:1 ratio, and use quirks to buff / nerf, or to change base equipment damage/heat stats for balance.

I should let you know that I was involved in a CW match where the Clan side had ejected 8 mechs of their first wave, making it 40 vs. 48 (3 stars vs. 4 lances, as per Lore), and the clans still stomped the IS forces.

Clans were organised. IS was pugs.

So lore IS numeric superiority would work easily in CW..

Also, if the mechs remained "unbalanced", the matchmaker could be made to also drop Clan Vs. IS, not mixed.. and problem solved.

It would all be much more "immersive" and IS players would take pride in the fact that they were finghting superior forces with superior numbers, while clans would take pride in their superiority and using that superiority against difficult odds.

That would be much better than constant whining about impossible balance standards..

Also, as a Tukayyid enthusiast.. the clan's downfall in that battle was simple lack of coordination among the various clans. Simply put, the clans got cocky, and went for individualism instead of working as a team, and fought a highly organized and similarly technological force that kicked their butts (except Clan Wolf).

If the Clans had worked together, much would have been different.. But Clans were never big on cooperation, and this is why they lost in the end.. They ultimately fell to the same problem they came to the Innersphere to solve, and why Kerensky left in the first place - lack of unity.

Edited by Vellron2005, 24 November 2015 - 02:13 AM.