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Tukayyid Outcome

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#21 Moonlight Grimoire

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 12:56 AM

Eh, honestly the issue is more of IS has too many players compared to clans. New Players see the price tag of clan mechs and go IS which is bad.

Why is it bad that new players go IS? Simple, IS mechs are easy to mess up, too many options.that new players don't understand. So you get new players with bad builds wasting hard earned cbills running into a meat grinder event. Throw them in clan mechs at least they can't under engine the darn thing for more LRM ammo. Also bonus to this is making them learn the mechanics of heat and how to fight first, then learn how to build an efficient mech beyond just weapon systems and heatsinks.

Honestly I think IS lost due to we had too many players, this diluted the skill base of who got to fight and made it easier for those playing clans to win. Was it gaming the system, no, it is just how the system is, sadly. The population disparity is the real winner today, not MS, not DSx, not KCOM, they are all powerful groups, but, if we had even number of pugs things would have gotten closer. No need to nerf clans further, maybe tweaks to how things work to make them different but equal, but, this Tuk was much more hard fought than waffle-stomps.

Hats off to Wolf getting friggen double the score of the FRR, keep training so we have more dogs of war to fight.

Edited by Kurorahk, 08 December 2015 - 12:59 AM.


#22 - Jet Black -

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:09 AM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 07 December 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:


Well done MercStar!

Winning one Battle of Tukayyid (BoT) tournament is a most notable achievement, winning two consecutive BoT tournaments is a lasting testament to your gamers' skill at MWO and a true tribute to the integrity and camaraderie of your Unit.

Great effort, good luck and good gaming!



At least some ppl don't see us as the Evil of this Game^^

#23 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:11 AM

View PostAraevin Teshurr, on 07 December 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

When the new comers from steam find out that they can all pile on the winning faction side of the week as mercenaries, this game will be even more lopsided and broken than it is right now.

1. Make all contract pay equal, remove any advantage.
2. Limit the number of players in the game that can be clan or inner sphere, to keep them balanced. Limit Mercenary units to a fraction of those numbers, as mercenary units should never outnumber house units - that is ridiculous.
3. Make the time required to change a contract or faction take one week, and only allow a faction change once a month.
4. Ensure that contracts stick to players, even if they leave a unit, so that units can't easily reform under another unit for a new contract.
5. Input time to move requirements for units. If a unit is an spot A, and they want to fight on a planet X light years away, it must take them X number of days to get there, and they have to pay for the cost of transport. This will ensure that an IS Merc unit can not just pick a spot on the other side of the galaxy, and hop into a Clan Merc contract the next day, because that is ********.
6. Lastly, put an end to the moronic idea that Clans would hire Innersphere Mercenary units at all, it makes zero sense.

Best of luck to the Devs who work hard at trying to fix this unbalanced and nonsensical game.


Are you crazy? You really want PGI to break the game even more trying to program that stuff in? If it ain't (completely) broke, don't fix it...

#24 - Jet Black -

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:13 AM

View PostKurorahk, on 08 December 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

Eh, honestly the issue is more of IS has too many players compared to clans. New Players see the price tag of clan mechs and go IS which is bad.

Why is it bad that new players go IS? Simple, IS mechs are easy to mess up, too many options.that new players don't understand. So you get new players with bad builds wasting hard earned cbills running into a meat grinder event. Throw them in clan mechs at least they can't under engine the darn thing for more LRM ammo. Also bonus to this is making them learn the mechanics of heat and how to fight first, then learn how to build an efficient mech beyond just weapon systems and heatsinks.

Honestly I think IS lost due to we had too many players, this diluted the skill base of who got to fight and made it easier for those playing clans to win. Was it gaming the system, no, it is just how the system is, sadly. The population disparity is the real winner today, not MS, not DSx, not KCOM, they are all powerful groups, but, if we had even number of pugs things would have gotten closer. No need to nerf clans further, maybe tweaks to how things work to make them different but equal, but, this Tuk was much more hard fought than waffle-stomps.

Hats off to Wolf getting friggen double the score of the FRR, keep training so we have more dogs of war to fight.




Thx again and an interesting view to the BoT!

#25 sycocys

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 03:46 AM

Did you screen cap the dozens of games against IS skittles that were no doubt 48-12 or less?

Not saying it would have been a lot different against their clan counterparts (though the clan skittles tend to be 4-5 times as skilled as the IS ones) but that you would have faced stiffer competition from more likely dropping against good units.

Also not knocking you for your choice, it was driven by piss poor event design - just pointing out that a lot of your unit score is hyper inflated from playing against terrible pug players.

#26 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 04:45 AM

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 08 December 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Sorry, what?

More screenshots! Seriously, will trade screenshots like this for forum likes!

#27 Sp4rtan

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 06:38 AM

View Postsycocys, on 08 December 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Did you screen cap the dozens of games against IS skittles that were no doubt 48-12 or less?

Not saying it would have been a lot different against their clan counterparts (though the clan skittles tend to be 4-5 times as skilled as the IS ones) but that you would have faced stiffer competition from more likely dropping against good units.

Also not knocking you for your choice, it was driven by piss poor event design - just pointing out that a lot of your unit score is hyper inflated from playing against terrible pug players.

Posted Image

#28 PFC Carsten

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:30 AM

View PostDeathlyEyes, on 07 December 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Announcing your back to back community warfare Tukayyid champs. MercStar!

Congratz on having the most active players during the event! :)

#29 Dino Might

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:47 AM

View PostPFC Carsten, on 08 December 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Congratz on having the most active players during the event! Posted Image


There is something to be said for that - lots of work behind the scenes to keep everyone together and working toward a common goal. For events like this, it is much easier, because the rewards are given to every participating member and not divvied out from a limited pool.

Still, considering I am in one of the larger units that played IS this event, we still only had at most two 12-mans at any one time, and that only happened once by my knowledge.

Credit where credit is due - MS leadership is excellent at managing a huge unit and getting the leaders of each subunit to work together well. It's sort of like Ancient Egypt "spheres of influence" governance. Highly effective for a large conglomeration with limited coordination capability (due to game mechanics and UI).

Personally, I would like to see large reward pools that are given to the units to divy up amongst members how they see fit - I think that would get more members of each unit participating and not further entice the conglomeration of units for events like this. My question to MS is, how many units joined you just prior to this event and then left right after? It's not unusual, and I'm not knocking your decision if you let these guys in temporarily to bolster numbers (heck, this is mercenary outfit SOP), but my question is to them - why would you go to the trouble just to get on the winning team when the reward is...nothing?

Edited by Dino Might, 08 December 2015 - 07:48 AM.


#30 Murphy7

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:52 AM

Quote

To answer, we topped out at 7 concurrent, 12-man teams with a couple small groups as a kicker.


That is fantastic, and well done.

For perspective, I think 9SD topped out at a 12-man for a portion of Friday or Saturday evening, and many of us got through the event as fill ins for other groups or as part of pug/skittle defenses.

I know I really only got to play on Sunday, and I was in CW for maybe 12 hours in which case I got in 17 drops, maybe 11 of them wins. To be in a smaller unit running many of the games with varied coordination (House Kurita TS is awesome, but also had population lapses) I can see where people become frustrated with the event. Especially with long queue times to procure poor results.

By my lights, it looks like MercStar is doing something right to enjoy the success they have. Again, well done.


#31 PFC Carsten

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:28 AM

View PostIhasa, on 07 December 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

To answer, we topped out at 7 concurrent, 12-man teams with a couple small groups as a kicker.


Mercstar* got 20742 points, 6914 per day, 288,1 per hour or 144 per 30-minute continous match-up. With 63 zones (i.e. 63 concurrent battles) at Tukayyid, that's 2.286 points per match. Continuously, 72 hrs, straight, every match.
Awesome - in every single match at least 2 -MS- dropdecks, not representing the matches ending shy of 30 minutes of course, but still. Posted Image


So i guess the "couple small groups" (apart from your 7 12-premades) were quite a few not only a couple and small maybe in relation to -MS- standards - so a couple dozen 8 or 10 premades? Posted Image


*Actually, it is Clan Wolf as a whole who's got that many points, not -MS-, as has been rightfully pointed out by Ihasa. Sorry, my mistake.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 09 December 2015 - 02:39 AM.


#32 Dino Might

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:12 AM

View PostPFC Carsten, on 08 December 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:


Mercstar got 20742 points, 6914 per day, 288,1 per hour or 144 per 30-minute continous match-up. With 63 zones (i.e. 63 concurrent battles) at Tukayyid, that's 2.286 points per match. Continuously, 72 hrs, straight, every match.
Awesome - in every single match at least 2 -MS- dropdecks, not representing the matches ending shy of 30 minutes of course, but still. Posted Image


So i guess the "couple small groups" (apart from your 7 12-premades) were quite a few not only a couple and small maybe in relation to -MS- standards - so a couple dozen 8 or 10 premades? Posted Image


Them's pretty wicked-good stats. Takes a whole lot more than just clicking a play button to make that work. Props for the organizational and management skills.

Edited by Dino Might, 08 December 2015 - 09:12 AM.


#33 Khereg

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:27 AM

View PostMurphy7, on 07 December 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

I wonder if Merc star by itself had more player participation than some of the other entire factions?

And that isn't a knock on MercStar - CW needs to improve to be more attractive/fun for the player base as a whole.


Almost certainly. In Tukkayid I PGI published stats that showed exactly this. I would expect it to be the same this time around.

I think it took PGI about a week to assemble the stats last time.

#34 Khereg

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:51 AM

View PostDarthPeanut, on 07 December 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

No offense I do not think it is a surprise because of the size of mercstar (MS) but well done. Clearly organized a lot of players to participate.


None taken, but just pulling together a large unit isn't enough to do what we did. Both SWOL and SRoT (and maybe a couple of others) are actually bigger units than -MS-. Laying it all out there, here's what it takes to dominate CW/Tukkayid:

1. Gather a large number of players (not as easy as it sounds)
2. Get those players to actually participate on a regular basis (also not as easy as it sounds)
3. Have those players have enough skill to win the vast majority of their matches (obviously not easy)

If you have a longer attention span, here's a little more detail on each.

1. Keeping a large group together isn't easy, especially if many of the players are above-average in skill. Good players can have big ego's and don't always like going along with the consensus of the group. Other larger, more competitive units have fractured over time in MWO. So far -MS- has held it together. I credit Tony and the other sub-unit leaders for keeping it interesting and fun w/o a lot of internal drama.

2. The grind is real. We saw a big drop off in CW participation over the course of Beta 2. Fortunately, many people came back for Tukkayid. Building a culture where dropping in on the TS is always a good time helps. I doubt -MS- has any advantage on that front, though. I'm sure most units are fun to participate in or they wouldn't exist.

3. This one gets interesting. I see -MS- consistently painted with two very broad (and off-target) brushes. We're either all seal-clubbing psycopathic tryhards, or we're completely unskilled scrubs who only win because we're in a group. The truth is more complex.

Contrary to some perceptions, -MS- is not a "casual" unit. We do have standards of performance we want our members to achieve. However, unlike a lot of other competitive units, we are willing to give almost anyone a chance to make the cut. Ask to join -MS- and we'll at least let you on the TS, put you in a group and see how you do. We'll also be getting to know you, because toxic personalities have a way of causing discord and ultimately fracturing of the group if allowed to persist (see #1).

However, our standards aren't crazy difficult to meet. We're not SJR or EmP and we're not trying to be. We understand the combination of factors that lead to CW success, so we try to be open to new members. We're willing to work with people to get them up to snuff, but if they won't listen to advice, won't try to improve their skills, or are a toxic presence in the room, their time with us will be somewhat brief. I would say that 30+% of the players in MWO have the raw skills to make it in -MS- if they wanted to put in the effort. That's totally pulled from my nether regions, but it's probably not that far off.

Also, we do, in fact, have some top-notch players in here. I'm no scrub, but I struggle to consistently perform in the top 20% - 30% of -MS- when we get into tryhard mode. There's at least 70 - 100 people in here that will absolutely ruin your day if you meet them in solo queue.

So, success in CW isn't just about assembling a mass of bodies. A unit does need to have a reputation for performing well and attract people who want to improve their game in addition to hanging out with friends (which is still the chief reason we get together). That's the challenging part. Not just growing a roster to 400+.

If you want to knock us down a peg in CW, take the above to heart and go build your unit. We look forward to seeing you out there.

Edited by Khereg, 08 December 2015 - 09:56 AM.


#35 Sad Panda

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:14 AM

I'd like to thank all the participants for making this a good event.

I'll also take this opportunity to say 1 thing:

Whose your daddy Brut4ce and Spartan? Whose your daddy?

#36 STEF_

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:17 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 08 December 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

More screenshots! Seriously, will trade screenshots like this for forum likes!

Found other 2 :)
Posted Image
Posted Image

#37 Cruxs

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:33 AM

I heard every MS player has five computers set up running bots on alt accounts, that they can switch to when a match drops. Hold on my tin foil hat fell off. ;)

Congrats on winning again guys, my funnest match was against MS.

#38 Khereg

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:34 AM

View PostWhite Bear 84, on 07 December 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Gratz to mercstar once again, maybe next time we can get you on the IS side Posted Image


Rumor has it we work for c-bills. ;)

#39 Famous

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:41 AM

View PostKhereg, on 08 December 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:


Rumor has it we work for c-bills. Posted Image


What? That sounds like you're some kind of mercenary company. I thought the Merc in Merc Star was just like somebody's initials or something

#40 AntleredCormorant

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:53 AM

This was a blast & I got a bunch of free stuff. FRR came together & kicked butt regardless of the numbers being stacked against us. Definitely pushed my game to a new level so congrats to MercStar & everyone else riding their coat-tails :P

Agree CW still needs a lot of work but that's a different discussion.





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