32 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

I have played a couple of Scouting matches today as Clan vs. IS.
Every time 2-3 SCRs.
And we slaughtered the Freebirthers every time. 4-1 or 4-0.
(side note: aren't Centurions supposed to be deadly at close range? AC20 n'stuff?)

My thought:
Why not limit the tonnage to 45?
Mechs with 50+ don't really fit the role of a scout anyway.

Nova: 80kph (lolz) and more like a massive damage dealer
Stormcrow: 90kph and a solid "medium assault"
HBK IIC: A little more variable, but still nowhere near a "scouting" mech.

<= 45-Tonners on the other hand:
Ferret: scout
Shadow Cat: scout / mobility / stealth / whatever
Upcoming Viper: uhm ... fast ... little ... damagedealerrrrr.... scout. There.

Same with IS: Does any of the 50/55 tonners fit the role of a "scout"? No.
Cicada does.
Upcoming Phoenix Hawk does very well.


My Conclusion: 45 ton limit for scouting is the reasonable thing to do.

[FupDup]

Trying to "balance" game modes with tonnage restrictions doesn't work, as it has been shown time and time again in several instances in this game.

If you bump it down to 45, people will just find the closest equivalent of the SCR/GRF/etc. in that weight range, and then complain about those new mechs instead.

There are fundamental problems with the modes and/or mechs and/or weapons that can't be solved by just letting people use bigger or smaller mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

I have played a couple of Scouting matches today as Clan vs. IS.
Every time 2-3 SCRs.
And we slaughtered the Freebirthers every time. 4-1 or 4-0.
(side note: aren't Centurions supposed to be deadly at close range? AC20 n'stuff?)

My thought:
Why not limit the tonnage to 45?
Mechs with 50+ don't really fit the role of a scout anyway.

Nova: 80kph (lolz) and more like a massive damage dealer
Stormcrow: 90kph and a solid "medium assault"
HBK IIC: A little more variable, but still nowhere near a "scouting" mech.

<= 45-Tonners on the other hand:
Ferret: scout
Shadow Cat: scout / mobility / stealth / whatever
Upcoming Viper: uhm ... fast ... little ... damagedealerrrrr.... scout. There.

Same with IS: Does any of the 50/55 tonners fit the role of a "scout"? No.
Cicada does.
Upcoming Phoenix Hawk does very well.


My Conclusion: 45 ton limit for scouting is the reasonable thing to do.

Sure, we'll limit the Clans to 45 tons. IS on the other hand regularly uses 55 tonners in scouting roles. WVR, SHD, GRF are common in it. The Wraith.... is a 120 kph 55 tonner.

So yeah, 45 for you sounds good.....

[Paigan]

FupDup, on 20 April 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Trying to "balance" game modes with tonnage restrictions doesn't work, as it has been shown time and time again in several instances in this game.

If you bump it down to 45, people will just find the closest equivalent of the SCR/GRF/etc. in that weight range, and then complain about those new mechs instead.

There are fundamental problems with the modes and/or mechs and/or weapons that can't be solved by just letting people use bigger or smaller mechs.

Well, if you read my post instead of just replying to the title:
50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)
<= 45t Mechs are.
That's the difference.

[Bishop Steiner]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, if you read my post instead of just replying to the title:
50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)
<= 45t Mechs are.
That's the difference.

Or adding total dropdeck weights. Though in solo that's usually an issue. but a 180 ton lance limit might help.

IDK..just tossing ideas,.

[Paigan]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Sure, we'll limit the Clans to 45 tons. IS on the other hand regularly uses 55 tonners in scouting roles. WVR, SHD, GRF are common in it. The Wraith.... is a 120 kph 55 tonner.

So yeah, 45 for you sounds good.....

Only if drop limit for Steiner is set to [100;100]

[FupDup]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, if you read my post instead of just replying to the title:
50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)
<= 45t Mechs are.
That's the difference.

If we're picking nits based on the "lore roles" thing, there are actually some surprisingly big "scout" mechs. The 80-ton Charger is the worst offender of them all...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)

The BLanner, Lightray, and Wraith would like a word with you.

[Barantor]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Sure, we'll limit the Clans to 45 tons. IS on the other hand regularly uses 55 tonners in scouting roles. WVR, SHD, GRF are common in it. The Wraith.... is a 120 kph 55 tonner.

So yeah, 45 for you sounds good.....

I don't mind it either way as those mediums you listed were used in scout roles but weren't always considered true scout mechs like how the Phoenix Hawk is.

I don't mind either way, the mode is pretty fun and as long as heavies and assaults are kept out I'm good.

I think there are enough posts about how streakcrows are a fad. The mode has only been out a day, there IS a way to counter them.

[ScarecrowES]

Yeah no. Take away the one viable mech we have for the mode and let the IS keep all of theirs? If you're doing nothing but dominate in SCRs you havent been running into too many Griffins, oxides, and Blackjacks.

[Paigan]

FupDup, on 20 April 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

If we're picking nits based on the "lore roles" thing, there are actually some surprisingly big "scout" mechs. The 80-ton Charger is the worst offender of them all...

UHM... if you read my post that you quoted, you would have read "fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM"
Nothing about lore in there, but Mech stats helping/needed for scouting.

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, if you read my post instead of just replying to the title:
50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)
<= 45t Mechs are.
That's the difference.

Is reading really so hard?

Edited by Paigan, 20 April 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[Lily from animove]

And then? what woudl really change? would diversity increase? it would then just be the other 3 chassis you see all the tme.

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Is reading really so hard?

well pisa study reavealed more and more people aren't able to proerly read the content of a text anymore. So I guess yes it seems to be.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 April 2016 - 08:35 AM.

[Paigan]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

The BLanner, Lightray, and Wraith would like a word with you.

Let me rephrase: 50/55t Mechs existing in MWO.

What you wrote was captious and offensive.

[Jackal Noble]

Interesting argument, with some good points. Hell I'm sure this being the preliminary release of this mode it will change weight several times akin to the fw weight fluctuations. It's odd that one 55 tonner can cause so much grief, and because it's clan than Nerf it! or change weight allowance. That being said I DO think dropping the weight down to 45 tons would be interesting if anything to see how that plays out. So ya I am willing to bet PGI will fluctuate the weight a few times

Edited by JackalBeast, 20 April 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Mystere]

Instead of reducing the tonnage limit, why not go the opposite direction and remove it entirely? Allow Steiner scout lances if some people insist.

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 20 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yeah no. Take away the one viable mech we have for the mode and let the IS keep all of theirs? If you're doing nothing but dominate in SCRs you havent been running into too many Griffins, oxides, and Blackjacks.

"One viable mech" ah, more clanner victim propaganda.....

[Mystere]

Paigan, on 20 April 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, if you read my post instead of just replying to the title:
50/55t Mechs are not really scout mechs (fast, preferably JJs, preferably ECM)
<= 45t Mechs are.
That's the difference.

As I wrote in another thread, a "light" is not necessarily a "scout", a "scouting team" does not imply everyone should be a "scout", and in a battlefield where you expect "scouts", deploying "scout killers" is a valid response.

I say go the opposite route and just remove the tonnage restriction.

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

Or adding total dropdeck weights. Though in solo that's usually an issue. but a 180 ton lance limit might help.

IDK..just tossing ideas,.

See my last sentence above.

Edited by Mystere, 20 April 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[Rattazustra]

Just give scouting a 220 tons TEAM tonnage. That would make things more diverse.

Apart from that, so what? So clans have a slight edge at scouting now. Pretty much the only thing we got left. Everything else has been quirked away into oblivion.

[Helsbane]

Or, they could just, you know, let the IS have SSRM4s and SSRM6s....

[Jackal Noble]

Wouldn't removing tonnage restrictions open up a whole new can of worms?