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How To Save Fw - A Grand Design For Full Blown Intergalactic War


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#1 Talorien

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:05 PM

Warning, radical overhaul suggested. Major surgery needed to save this patient!

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-- Two Factions -- IS & Clan. Sub-factions kept for flavour ("Clans are attacking Kurita!") but effectively 2 sides in the war. Sustainable.

-- Six Matchmaking Buckets -- 48v48 (like invasion), 12v12 (like quick play), 4v4 (like scout). Each subdivides into: group and solo/duo buckets. Minimum buckets = short wait and fair matches.

-- All Games Matchmade -- Faction voting decides current planet to attack/scout on. Thus each faction will only have one attack and defense planet active. Team selects attack or defense before queueing.

-- Automatic Routing -- between defense and attack queues if (e.g.) the defense planet has no defenders.

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A grand design. And it is breathtaking.

No Quick Play or FW in their current form. All games are matchmade. All games are Quick Play. All games are FW. All games have minimal wait and take on larger meaning.

Everyone is a freelancer, merc or faction loyalist. Everyone's games count. It is one huge, interstellar war.

This is what we were promised on launch.

Edited by Talorien, 22 April 2016 - 10:53 PM.


#2 Rubba_Chicken

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:27 PM

I like it. Hope someone in PGI reads this and understands just how awesome this idea is.

#3 feeWAIVER

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:47 PM

I like this. +1

#4 White Bear 84

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:55 PM

CW will always be stale so long as it does not tap into the general population. Recruitment for everyone by order of the tsar!

#5 Revis Volek

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:56 PM

Not everyone wants to play Clan v IS all the time

Not everyone cares about the FACTION PLAY part of this game

Not everyone is here for the Lore

This would run off a lot of player IMO, but i could be wrong.

48v48 i dont think is possible at all.

We already only have one attack planet per border so i dont see what this changes at all.

#6 feeWAIVER

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:01 PM

View PostRevis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

Not everyone wants to play Clan v IS all the time

Not everyone cares about the FACTION PLAY part of this game

Not everyone is here for the Lore

This would run off a lot of player IMO, but i could be wrong.

48v48 i dont think is possible at all.

We already only have one attack planet per border so i dont see what this changes at all.


48v48 is already in the game...

12x4=48

#7 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:08 PM

View PostRevis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

48v48 i dont think is possible at all.

We already have 48v48 Mechs, that is the CW invasion mode which we have had for almost a year and a half.

#8 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:41 PM

I suggested something similar to this about two years ago, along with a reward system and xp "tree" for the various player types not disimilar to what we now have (I suggested a faction planetary CBill "pot" instead of MC, with greater rewards for more important planets).

However I think we have pretty much got what we are going to get. The most I forsee the queue system changing is the removal of the freelancer queue and it going back to solo's having to choose a faction to play in the mode.

**edit** Here's a watered down version of one of the posts from a year ago. It's still a wall of text and I think a chunk of it is actually pretty close to what we have now.**

Each game mode and map has the potential to be used for niches in the CW experience; for example the Conquest mechanic has many possible applications, while the full game mode could easily be “tweaked” to accommodate a scouting role on the Community Warfare. To expand further on this it could be possible to allocate certain team size caps to certain mission types, giving solo players (and new players) somewhere to get their feet wet and learn the ropes.

Contracts (game modes) available to Solo players
  • Solo only - 4 ‘Mech small scale combat and scouting missions, Skirmish and Conquest on the smaller maps such as River City, Forest Colony and Canyon Network.

Lower flat rates for LP and CBill payments, with higher modifiers for team based in-game actions to emphasis the lower risk involved but encourage engagement and teamwork.


  • Small group and Solo – same as above but with slightly better rewards, encourages Lance sized groups to play and co-ordinate. Possibly with the DropShip reinforcements added and min/max tonnage limit.

Use current rates for LP and CBill payments for game win/loss and in-game actions, this is the introduction to the “Big Leagues”; overall the payments should be slightly higher [5%] than the solo only queue.


  • Up to Demi-Company sized groups (max group size 8) in Company (12 ‘Mechs) combat operations – Assault, Skirmish, Counter Attack/Defend and Attack (current CW modes).

LP/CBill payments set higher again [5%] with high modifiers for combat based in-game actions to reward combat and co-ordinated gameplay.



Contracts (game modes) available to groups
2 - 4 players
  • Skirmish and Conquest in the Small Group/Solo queue

LP/CBill rewards for completion of the contract should be [5-10%] higher than the Solo player rewards, reflecting the higher risk/reward factor for Groups entering into battle with an unknown players alongside them. Modifiers for in-game actions set at current levels.


2-12 players (inclusive of group sizes 2 – 4)
  • Assault, Skirmish, Counter Attack/Defend and Attack (current CW modes)

LP/CBill rewards [10-15%] for completion of contract/mission higher than Solo player, modifiers for in-game actions set at current levels.



I am unsure how this would affect wait times but I assume it would actually help, since every player in the game is now in Community Warfare; albeit in various different aspects of it.

Now every player is included in the Community Warfare experience and has the choice of what level they wish to play at;
  • The soloist can stick to the smaller scale engagements but still feel as though they are contributing and will likely be earning slightly more CBills than they presently do in the Solo queues, while earning LP to go toward the Faction based rewards.
  • The smaller Units have the choice of where and how they commit their time and energy; while either giving themselves an opportunity of fighting on equal terms with an opponent or taking the chance of going into a Company drop against a larger grouped enemy team. CBill and LP earnings will be on par with current levels, perhaps slightly higher.
  • Likewise the larger Units can choose how to use their forces, engage in the smaller scale fights and perhaps help to tip the balance on the planet or fully commit to Company sized engagements in the hope of overwhelming their opponents attack/defence.
I’m sure I have overlooked something but this is as far as I have gotten while putting my thoughts down. The next step would be diversifying on how the choice of Faction type (Loyalist/Merc/Lone Wolf) would affect how the planets become available to fight over or what types of rewards they offer. I haven’t gotten that far but again there are some really good and well thought out ideas out there already.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 21 April 2016 - 10:56 PM.


#9 Want0n

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:10 AM

I made a reply to another thread along similar lines. I can't see that QP needs to be a thing any more. Just have all games and modes affect FW in some way. Keep the variety but reduce the splitting of queues. New players will learn about the FW side if they like the shooty bit and even if they din't its still bodies/customers.

Seen a lot of people express a similar view to mine, that match quality is much better in FW with the split in queues. That's a huge gain. I think its premature to lose that by merging queues when other steps could be taken.

#10 Talorien

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:04 AM

View PostRevis Volek, on 21 April 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

We already only have one attack planet per border so i dont see what this changes at all.


Reduction to two super-factions (IS + Clan) means there'll only be 2 battleground planets at any one time.

One current problem in FW is dozens of battlegrounds, splitting the queue into little buckets where you can wait all day and not get a match.

View PostxX PUG Xx, on 21 April 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

I suggested something similar to this about two years ago, along with a reward system and xp "tree" for the various player types not disimilar to what we now have (I suggested a faction planetary CBill "pot" instead of MC, with greater rewards for more important planets).


Pretty amazing how many elements of your system are now a reality. It's a great step forward.

Maybe someone at PGI saw your earlier post :)

#11 Ghogiel

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:33 AM

They could however reduce it to 4 factions. Crusader + warden for clans, and then what ever else they can group the IS into that makes sense lore wise.

That would more than double the value of the current player base and solve a lot of issues. Reducing it to 2 factions clan vs IS doesn't sound all that great.

#12 Malleus011

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:38 AM

I'm generally in favor of the OP's direction, but I *really* don't want to only ever fight Clanners.

I do think we need to phase out non-CW matches, and put everything 'on the map' without ruining the casual gamer experience.

#13 Freeman 52

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:41 AM

People seem to be aiming for the split solo/unit queues as the problem with FW3. I think the problem is too many factions and contested planets for the number of people playing. In contrast, during the last Tukayyid FW was fast and furious. Something like the OP would be much better than keeping so many factions with a single queue.

#14 dj_

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:41 AM

I know nothing about game design. This is just a question.

Could they drop the 4 deck ds to 1 making the games shorter. Each Attack on a planet counts for 1/4 of a battle. Merge the Group Q to FW. Merge the solo Q to FW as well. 4 attacks are done(same map). After battle is finished give rewards to players on the winning side. Use all maps quick play (Objective game types)and FW maps. Even use the tier system for matchmaking for solo players. Merc units go to random attacks depending IS or Clan mech selection. Units would have to select IS or Clan mech if the game mode was selected. They do This with tonnage why not IS Clan mechs .

Now my opinion.

Lets face it the Clan vs IS as far as mechs is not working anyway because of balance issues. (Start the insults now.) Just let any mech be selected regardless of side. All the lore players can just say they captured their mech.

This would reduce wait times. Make smaller units able to have an impact in taking planets (even the playing field as far as capturing planets). We could still keep all the factions. Bring the community closer by coordinating attacks.

I like the 4 drop deck. I also hate waiting an hour for a match. I like how FW plays now. It's just to big for our small community.

Edited by xCasualx, 22 April 2016 - 11:28 AM.


#15 Revis Volek

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:05 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 21 April 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:

48v48 is already in the game...

12x4=48



Then i misunderstood, i thought he meant 48v48 at one time.

carry on

View PostTalorien, on 22 April 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:


Reduction to two super-factions (IS + Clan) means there'll only be 2 battleground planets at any one time.

One current problem in FW is dozens of battlegrounds, splitting the queue into little buckets where you can wait all day and not get a match.



Pretty amazing how many elements of your system are now a reality. It's a great step forward.

Maybe someone at PGI saw your earlier post Posted Image



You could still wait all day and not get an attack if the queue is crazy imbalanced as well, so it kinda fixes the problem but not really.

What if way more peeps play Clan then IS? Or vice versa. Reductions to just TWO super factions sounds boring as hell if you ask me. Id rather have some freedom, and thats not battletech at all. There is lots of infighting, Clan v Clan later on and tons of IS v IS stuff going on. Making it more vanillia doesnt really sound like a good idea.


When you say earlier post, you mean the one i made at 2am? a few days AFTER the patch and YEARS after PGI started 12v12?

Right....that's just spot on observations bro. Posted Image I mean all the solo players were crying about being stomped by Groups, well now the groups are gone and they are now upset they dont have enough people to play. So i dont think we will ever please that group in this mode, its just not gonna happen IMO.

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 April 2016 - 11:09 AM.


#16 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 03:37 PM

Quote

No Quick Play or FW in their current form. All games are matchmade. All games are Quick Play. All games are FW. All games have minimal wait and take on larger meaning.



Without Clan/mechs, no real issue but since we are do have them, PGI is keeping the technology separated. So, how would a DCMS mechwarrior utilize his Timberwolf? How would a Clanman utilize his Battlemasters?

As a few have noted, PGI would have to allow Clans to use IS mechs, and IS to use Clan mechs. Should PGI put a restriction on how many Clan or IS can use of the other?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 April 2016 - 03:42 PM.


#17 Talorien

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:33 PM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 22 April 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Without Clan/mechs, no real issue but since we are do have them, PGI is keeping the technology separated. So, how would a DCMS mechwarrior utilize his Timberwolf? How would a Clanman utilize his Battlemasters?

This isn't a problem in the FW merc loyalty system. The only ones locked in are faction loyalists.

Freelancers and Mercs are free to use either depending on which faction they currently support.

#18 Sharg

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:43 PM

I was just thinking about this earlier today! It seems like the next logical step. I would maybe add a few planets reserved for the big units to fight over, during certain hours, like we have now.

#19 Triordinant

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:41 PM

View PostGhogiel, on 22 April 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

They could however reduce it to 4 factions. Crusader + warden for clans, and then what ever else they can group the IS into that makes sense lore wise.

It's called the Federated Commonwealth. The Federated Suns (Davion) and the Lyran Commonwealth (Steiner) formally merged in 3055. The rest of the IS would be the second IS faction.

#20 Talorien

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:15 AM

View PostRevis Volek, on 22 April 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

When you say earlier post, you mean the one i made at 2am? a few days AFTER the patch and YEARS after PGI started 12v12?

Right....that's just spot on observations bro. Posted Image I mean all the solo players were crying about being stomped by Groups, well now the groups are gone and they are now upset they dont have enough people to play. So i dont think we will ever please that group in this mode, its just not gonna happen IMO.

I was replying to Xx PUG xX :)





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