86 replies to this topic

[Escef]

Xetelian, on 03 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'm in a situation where I often don't have the money to buy the pre-Order until the next month. I get paid once a month and later in the month I have a hard time freeing up enough funds to buy a mech or any video game related purchase.

I don't see how altering the early adopter reward dates will help with your income level or budgeting issues. If you have a hard time finding money at the end of the month now for a video game, what will you do when you blow the money on a video game early in the month and need money for actual necessities later in the month?

I wish I could be more sympathetic, but it almost sounds like you are asking PGI to help you financially slit your own throat.

[Corrado]

for me the early adopter is a big plus. It is the source of my premium time, the source of faction content and cockpit items. but i'd put premium time on top.

after all, paying a good amount for something that ships 4-5 months later should reward customers and it does.

[Weeny Machine]

ScarecrowES, on 03 June 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Walk into pretty much any store and offer $700 for a $900 TV and see how that works for you. Even if the TV you want was on sale for $700 the week before, you're not getting it for $700 now, because the offer was for a limited time and is now over. In fact, ever single advertisement for that sale will specify, even if just in tiny print, that this is a limited offer.

We're not in some 3rd world farmers' market where you can haggle over the prices of goods and services.

Ummm no. Sure, sometimes it doesn't work. It depends on the demand of the product, the company and so on. However, there is a thing called "bargaining"

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Here' s my point of view on the matter.

If I don't buy during the initial preorder bonus, I feel like I missed out and just don't buy with $$$. So the Viper? Just gonna wait for it to go on sale for cbills. Kodiak? Same. I know a lot of folks feel the same way too.

[Sagamore]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 June 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

Here' s my point of view on the matter.

If I don't buy during the initial preorder bonus, I feel like I missed out and just don't buy with $$$. So the Viper? Just gonna wait for it to go on sale for cbills. Kodiak? Same. I know a lot of folks feel the same way too.

Agreed. Especially when most people are buying the $20 pack (c-bill purchasable mechs) + $15 hero add-on (you can buy 50% off later like I did the Black Widow a week ago).

[Bishop Steiner]

Xetelian, on 03 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'm in a situation where I often don't have the money to buy the pre-Order until the next month. I get paid once a month and later in the month I have a hard time freeing up enough funds to buy a mech or any video game related purchase.

Thus, I miss the bonus goodies.

What I want is the bonus goodies to last until just before the mech comes out. I understand that they want to incentivise the purchase early but why does it only last a couple weeks when the mech doesn't come out for 3 months?

As it is still a pre order, it should at least last until July, the Camo is what I'm really after, free camo is a real selling point for me and the hanging items.

If you agree with me, that preorder bonuses should last longer, please tweet this to Russ.
https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

If you don't agree, please explain why?



Talking about EARLY ADOPTER rewards lasting longer than 3 weeks.

So I guess, what are you realyl asking for?

Because Marketing 101 tells us that artificial time constraints boost sales far more than they hurt them. They convince people that are on the fence to make a purchase based on the idea that "they might miss a realyl good deal" that they otherwise might not make, even at the same price. That's simple marketing fact. Hence why EVERY major retailer uses short window sales. And these companies have spent literally 100s of millions researching these trends over decades.

So every time I see someone come on and try to talk out their butts about how bad they are, I just have to shake my head.

JCPenny tried the "always at a fair price" tactic...and failed miserably. Because the perception of urgency and thus value, was lost. Rational? No. Neither is paying money for electrons on the internet that will fade on the ether when the servers close. Outside of life's necessities, none of our purchases realyl are based on the rational.

So expecting them to "give the bonus stuff up to delivery date" is highly unrealistic, and actually bad for their marketing. Yes, they might lose YOUR dollars, but proven sales history shows that there are at least 3-4 probably casual) players who WILL make that purchase instead. Cruel as it sounds... you as a person, or me, or any one person, doesn't matter to PGIs bottom line. And short sales DO generate higher sales. Period. Not even remotely open for debate.

And in fairness, from a sales standpoint, I think they do a pretty fair bit...since most sales don't let you buy a minimum pack, and then upgrade months after and still get the pre-sales benefits. That would be like going to Sears to buy a Dyson on a 3 day sale and them letting you put it on Lay Away at the same price (which having worked at sears for 3 years in sales, I can tell you, doesn't happen).

What COULD be done, possibly is to ask Russ and company to change how the sales window falls for the Pre-Orders?

For instance, instead of ending them at the last day of a Month, would having the Pre-Sale Window possibly be the last week of the announcement month and the first week of the following month allow more people to purchase? Fore example, Mech is announced Lets's say June 14, Pre-Sale Starts on June 24 and Ends on July 7?

Would that allow more people to actually purchase? If so, then that is what PGI should do. But bottom line is that there will always be people that the sales window just isn't ideal for. And there is no way around that. Mind you, IMO, if you don't have 20$ in your account for mad money pretty much at all times, you probably don't REALLY have that $20 bucks to spend at any time. Because if you are that paycheck to paycheck, you realyl don't have that money to waste here. But that's more a financial counseling matter than a marketing one.

But I'm curious, would adjusting the actual start/close dates on the Pre-Sales accomplish what you hope? If so, let's put it together as a proposal and send it to PGI. My take, TBH, is that probably for most folks the 1st of the Month thru the 14th or so would be the most ideal for the most people (or something similar, 5th-19th, etc) than end of the month, anyhow.

But if this is just to demand that stuff essentially be "on sale the whole time" than I'm sorry, but it ain't going to happen. Socialist Sales don't really work in a a capitalist market. And contrary to what some people on here think, this ain't a Bazaar in Cairo or a Tianguis in Oaxaca. Prices and Sales aren't always on, things are not always negotiable.

So please, tell me your thoughts.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sagamore, on 04 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Agreed. Especially when most people are buying the $20 pack (c-bill purchasable mechs) + $15 hero add-on (you can buy 50% off later like I did the Black Widow a week ago).

The black widow at 50% off was still about $15 worth of MC...

[vettie]

I never speak of someone's income status because you never know their situation.

Like the OP, I am on a limited income and get paid once a month, and the date per month is not fixed. 10 years ago, I never would have thought I would have broken my back and forced to sit in a chair 90% of my awake time. Many of my investments dont not start for another 5 yrs unless I file "extreme circumstance" petitions which IF I receive will cost me upwards of 350k$. I can wait and live on my small budget.

There have been multiple times that PGI announces a new mech along with the early adopter rewards. The length of the early adopt program shows me that it will be over before my next pay. I sometimes could buy it when announced, sometimes not depending on real life bills /expenses. If not I have to wait and then see the expiration date will be before my next pay. So I opt not to purchase the package. That is a loss of sales to PGI, even tho 80$ is nothing to them (more recent ones have been around 40$), that small amount is quite a bit to some.Still a loss sale.because I opt to wait until CBill release.

The only exception I have made to this is that I bought the Warhammer package (with BW) AFTER the package had been delivered. Yes I lost the bonus but I actually liked the mech and the way it performs for me, so worth it to me rather thanwait until CBill release day.

I have bought none since and none before WITHOUT the early adoption rewards. There are a couple I would LIKE to purchase, but I will wait until CBill day.

Having said all that, I find NO reason that PGI cant extend the Early adoption rewards 2 to 3 weeks longer than current. I know in my case they would have received an extra 120$ or so and I am sure I am not the only one.

Bless those that have the expendable income and dont have to worry about it. I was that way in the past. Now Im not. I dont begrudge anyone for that. Enjoy what you want, its your money. Careful to comment on others as you do not know their situation.

Extend the Reward 2 to 3 weeks - ITs just pixels and programming time...To make the change from current method to extend it is (most likely) a code change of a couple of numbers...Hour or less work? I think the sales would Increase overall. Just my opinion

[Sagamore]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 June 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

The black widow at 50% off was still about $15 worth of MC...

True enough. I didn't work out the cost in MC since I usually buy it in bulk when there is a 20% bonus. But I still save $20 since you can't do the $15 hero add-on without the $20 pack.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sagamore, on 04 June 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

True enough. I didn't work out the cost in MC since I usually buy it in bulk when there is a 20% bonus. But I still save $20 since you can't do the $15 hero add-on without the $20 pack.

True true

[Bishop Steiner]

Sagamore, on 04 June 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

True enough. I didn't work out the cost in MC since I usually buy it in bulk when there is a 20% bonus. But I still save $20 since you can't do the $15 hero add-on without the $20 pack.

Eh, 20 bucks is usually worth it to me for the Premium Time and 3 months of early access. Though admittedly 3 months of preview play might have kept me from buying certain chassis, like the Marauder, Warhammer and Archer, TBH.

What's not worth it, is the 20$ hike for the Collectors Pack.

Make it $10, or let me choose which variant gets to be (S) or better yet, BOTH, and then it is worth it. As is? 20 bucks more for a duplicate mech that might not even be one I like using?

MEH.

[WarHippy]

ScarecrowES, on 03 June 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Ok... so, since you have no idea what you're talking about but feel the need to post anyway...

The pre-order bonus for every mech pack will include MINIMUM 1 mech bay per mech to house your mechs, 30 days of premium time, 3 cockpit items, a badge, and a title. The Collector's Pack will double most of those rewards. You get that pre-order bonus at any time before the release of the mech pack.

IN ADDITION to the pre-order bonuses, if you buy during the early adopter period you will also get 3 additional cockpit items, an unlocked pattern, 2 weapon modules, 2 mech modules, and 6.5mil currency.

So as you can see, there are pre-order bonuses and early adopter bonuses. You will always get SOMETHING for pre-ordering that will be worth roughly half the value of the mech pack. If you order early, you get even more.

So yes, there IS a separate bonus OTHER than the pre-order bonus, and you get THAT no matter when you order before release.

Talk about being clueless...

Everything you listed is not a pre-order bonus they are a package bonus that remains long after the mech is released. I never bought the Rifleman, but I can still buy that pack and get everything you listed for the same price someone else paid before it was ever released. The only thing I do not get is the early adopter rewards and that is to be expected because the mech has been released. What this thread is about is the early adopter/pre-order bonus that should be available to anyone that buys the pack before it is released. Do try to keep up sparky it isn't difficult. You don't have to agree but at least try to understand what is being discussed.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 June 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

So I guess, what are you realyl asking for?

Because Marketing 101 tells us that artificial time constraints boost sales far more than they hurt them. They convince people that are on the fence to make a purchase based on the idea that "they might miss a realyl good deal" that they otherwise might not make, even at the same price. That's simple marketing fact. Hence why EVERY major retailer uses short window sales. And these companies have spent literally 100s of millions researching these trends over decades.

So every time I see someone come on and try to talk out their butts about how bad they are, I just have to shake my head.

JCPenny tried the "always at a fair price" tactic...and failed miserably. Because the perception of urgency and thus value, was lost. Rational? No. Neither is paying money for electrons on the internet that will fade on the ether when the servers close. Outside of life's necessities, none of our purchases realyl are based on the rational.

So expecting them to "give the bonus stuff up to delivery date" is highly unrealistic, and actually bad for their marketing. Yes, they might lose YOUR dollars, but proven sales history shows that there are at least 3-4 probably casual) players who WILL make that purchase instead. Cruel as it sounds... you as a person, or me, or any one person, doesn't matter to PGIs bottom line. And short sales DO generate higher sales. Period. Not even remotely open for debate

A short window can be too short to have any real effect. That being said having the bonuses available up to the delivery date and in some cases shortly beyond is the common practice in the gaming industry. Somehow I have a hard time believing EA, Activision, Etc. haven't done that research you refer to on what works best and they seem to be more than happy to do things like having the bonuses all they way too release. If anyone needs to understand how marketing works it is PGI.

"And in fairness, from a sales standpoint, I think they do a pretty fair bit...since most sales don't let you buy a minimum pack, and then upgrade months after and still get the pre-sales benefits. That would be like going to Sears to buy a Dyson on a 3 day sale and them letting you put it on Lay Away at the same price (which having worked at sears for 3 years in sales, I can tell you, doesn't happen)."
Maybe things like that is why Sears is struggling to get by and looking at possibly selling off their major brands(craftsman/diehard/Kenmore) just to survive a little longer. Now I have never used lay away but I would be willing to bet most stores would let you do exactly what you described considering there are a lot major stores out there that take a return on an item they don't even sell.

[Xetelian]

Escef, on 04 June 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

I don't see how altering the early adopter reward dates will help with your income level or budgeting issues. If you have a hard time finding money at the end of the month now for a video game, what will you do when you blow the money on a video game early in the month and need money for actual necessities later in the month?

I wish I could be more sympathetic, but it almost sounds like you are asking PGI to help you financially slit your own throat.

I worked 10 years as a pharmacy tech, at the end of the decade in customer service I needed serious surgery, I've had about 9 surgeries over the course of my life and I can no longer work. The little joy I get out 20$ of my extremely limited income is the only thing I get. I don't eat McDonalds, I don't go to movies, I don't gamble and I don't buy booze. I can barely walk, my life is restricted to a few hours in a computer chair and the rest of the time laying down putting ice on my knees and back.

20$ out of my income isn't "slitting my own throat" it is the least of the problems. Am I now allowed to have a little joy? When the world is as bleak as it is for me every small happiness is treasured. Why wouldn't you want that for someone?


I want the Early Adopter Bonus extended. I thought people would also like it extended but apparently the forum here is full of people who wouldn't rerelease the phoenix pack and don't think any one else should get goodies.

I've met selfish people before, I'm a little selfish myself but I own the phoenix pack and voted to ALLOW people to buy it again. I figured it would raise more money for my favorite game and it would make other people happy.

The "too bad so sad" response isn't much as far is reasoning why you wouldn't extend the window to 2 months or even till the mech is out.




I don't figure PGI would ever see this forum post, and I don't think they would change their policy just for me, but if everyone pushed together we could see it changed.

My mistake. Just thought more people would be happier overall if the bonus was available to them. Thought more people would purchase it if they were getting a bigger value for their dollar.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 04 June 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

A short window can be too short to have any real effect. That being said having the bonuses available up to the delivery date and in some cases shortly beyond is the common practice in the gaming industry. Somehow I have a hard time believing EA, Activision, Etc. haven't done that research you refer to on what works best and they seem to be more than happy to do things like having the bonuses all they way too release. If anyone needs to understand how marketing works it is PGI.

"And in fairness, from a sales standpoint, I think they do a pretty fair bit...since most sales don't let you buy a minimum pack, and then upgrade months after and still get the pre-sales benefits. That would be like going to Sears to buy a Dyson on a 3 day sale and them letting you put it on Lay Away at the same price (which having worked at sears for 3 years in sales, I can tell you, doesn't happen)."
Maybe things like that is why Sears is struggling to get by and looking at possibly selling off their major brands(craftsman/diehard/Kenmore) just to survive a little longer. Now I have never used lay away but I would be willing to bet most stores would let you do exactly what you described considering there are a lot major stores out there that take a return on an item they don't even sell.

Actually, I'm not aware of any retailers that allow Larry away on special sake items

[LordNothing]

i think the preorder window is far too small. should run it up till about 2 or 3 weeks before release.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Xetelian, on 04 June 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

I worked 10 years as a pharmacy tech, at the end of the decade in customer service I needed serious surgery, I've had about 9 surgeries over the course of my life and I can no longer work. The little joy I get out 20$ of my extremely limited income is the only thing I get. I don't eat McDonalds, I don't go to movies, I don't gamble and I don't buy booze. I can barely walk, my life is restricted to a few hours in a computer chair and the rest of the time laying down putting ice on my knees and back.

20$ out of my income isn't "slitting my own throat" it is the least of the problems. Am I now allowed to have a little joy? When the world is as bleak as it is for me every small happiness is treasured. Why wouldn't you want that for someone?


I want the Early Adopter Bonus extended. I thought people would also like it extended but apparently the forum here is full of people who wouldn't rerelease the phoenix pack and don't think any one else should get goodies.

I've met selfish people before, I'm a little selfish myself but I own the phoenix pack and voted to ALLOW people to buy it again. I figured it would raise more money for my favorite game and it would make other people happy.

The "too bad so sad" response isn't much as far is reasoning why you wouldn't extend the window to 2 months or even till the mech is out.




I don't figure PGI would ever see this forum post, and I don't think they would change their policy just for me, but if everyone pushed together we could see it changed.

My mistake. Just thought more people would be happier overall if the bonus was available to them. Thought more people would purchase it if they were getting a bigger value for their dollar.

I will be devil's advocate because the forums are more fun than the game so here goes.

Everyone has a hard luck story so save the back story. Spend your $20 bucks however you like but trying to circumvent the exclusivity of things being sold before certain deadlines defeats the purpose of the deadlines and negates any reason for buying early. They are meant to be bonuses for suckers who want to give PGI money in advance. Besides its all useless cosmetic stuff most people probably forget to even clutter their cockpit with. Why would you want people who bought phoenix stuff to lose its exclusivity? I originally regretted not getting in as a founder when I had the chance but opted to wait for open beta but I definitely don't think I should get to purchase a founders pack.

Advocacy over.

PGI will probably allow exclusive items to be bought eventually to milk the last few saps who would actually buy them during the death throws of this game so start saving that $20 bro.

[Escef]

Xetelian, on 04 June 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

20$ out of my income isn't "slitting my own throat" it is the least of the problems.

If this is so, than why did you profess to have such difficulty scaring it up? Look, if you don't have the forethought to tuck away a few bucks "just in case" at the beginning of the month for end of month expenses, than I don't have much sympathy for you. Your failure to budget is not my, PGI's, nor anyone else's responsibility, and no one is obligated to compensate you for your shortsightedness.

Your sob story? Look, it sucks, I get it. But life sucks for everyone. I sucks for me, too. But I make things work, somehow.

[Xetelian]

A lot of games offer founders packs after release, you can still buy the Goth Annie in League of Legends starter pack and Mercenary Katarina. You can't buy the Silver Kayle because that was a retail box only skin.

They retired a lot of skins, just about everything from 2009 and up to a couple years ago have become legacy skins.


However they open the vault of skins and allow people to buy retired skins in giant packs. Like a pack of all the skins from 2011 at once. All of the Halloween skins from 2012 in a pack, they put a special border around the ones that were bought in 2012 but anyone can own them.


Exclusivity is kind of stupid. I have a founders Atlas. My friend missed out of the Founder's pack and wants a founder's Atlas really bad. He bought the Phoenix pack up to the SHD ($40) and Wave 1 up to the TBR ($210) and I'm jealous as hell because I want a bonus cBill TBR. I've been holding out for a TBR hero, just like he bought the Boar's Head to make up for the lack of Founder's bonus Atlas.

You should sell what people want, they could easily make a reVitalize pack that has an AS7-D (S) instead of an AS7-D (F) and give it its own unique skin and paint. That would make him happy and still leave me with my exclusive mech.


Short windows like 26 days to buy Early Adopter rewards is just a few weeks to work out whether or not you want to spend the money on the mechs offered and that isn't enough time to me.


Yeah, I have a hard luck story, I'm not on here begging YOU to buy me the Night Gyr, I just want the cool doodads that come as Early Adopter rewards, specifically the camo and hanging items which is like 15$ worth of stuff.

My opinion is they should offer Early Adopter rewards in a tier system like they did Wave 2 and 3, first month gets a Warhorn handing item and standing item, Second month gets a Hanging Item and standing item, 3rd month gets a stand item and nothing once it is released.

Or give Early Adopters a few months to get those goodies because it is STILL A PRE ORDER before it is released.


None of these packs went away, none of them. You can still order Wave 1 2 and 3, you can still order Resistance 1 and 2 you can still order the Archer, Warhammer, Kodiak, Rifleman.

None of these are exclusive preorder so why even call them pre-order?

Escef, on 04 June 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

If this is so, than why did you profess to have such difficulty scaring it up? Look, if you don't have the forethought to tuck away a few bucks "just in case" at the beginning of the month for end of month expenses, than I don't have much sympathy for you. Your failure to budget is not my, PGI's, nor anyone else's responsibility, and no one is obligated to compensate you for your shortsightedness.

Your sob story? Look, it sucks, I get it. But life sucks for everyone. I sucks for me, too. But I make things work, somehow.

My sob story isn't really what this is about. I simply stated:
What I think is wrong with the current system
Elaborated on why, which included my budget and situation but wasn't meant for more than just an example of how the system doesn't work for everyone.

I didn't say "Oh, my life sucks so they should do things for me" If I wanted that I would have just gone to support or tweeted Russ my sob story and that would be the end of it. I don't give a **** if you feel bad for me, I don't want you to feel bad for me I was just elaborating why the confines of the system don't work for me and how it could be better for everyone.

Don't call into this my 'budgeting' skills. I have a budget, I eat more than just ramen, I live within my means, I haven't starved to death yet. Not being able to free up $20 because I have no bi-weekly income and **** is expensive doesn't mean I'm **** -ing off with all my money.

The point, which appears to be lost on you since you can't focus on anything other than my short comings as a person, was that not everyone can jump when PGI says jump. The exclusive rewards are too exclusive and we would be better served by making it less exclusive.


Your life probably sucks, everyone has a ****** example to give but mine wasn't meant to justify the change, just to give an example of why I'd like it changed.

[Escef]

Xetelian, on 04 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Don't call into this my 'budgeting' skills.

I don't have to, you already did.

Xetelian, on 03 June 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'm in a situation where I often don't have the money to buy the pre-Order until the next month. I get paid once a month and later in the month I have a hard time freeing up enough funds to buy a mech or any video game related purchase.

Remember that? That's what you opened the thread with.