112 replies to this topic

[Hexidecimator]

First, let me say that I don't play as much anymore so this post might seem irrelevant but for new players to the community I feel this might offer an example to how PGI pushes players away from its game.


The Loyalty Rewards make little or no sense, and highlight how PGI fails to execute an idea. The overall premise is nice, the thought is correct, but the design and follow through are poor. For those that do not understand how the rewards work, the overall concept is that you reward players for spending money on the game. However, the execution of this is terrible. The following example will highlight the problem.


EXAMPLE

Player 1 Purchases:

• Kodiak Collector $40
  
• Night Gyr Collector $40
  
• Cyclops Collector $40
  
• Warhammer Collector $40

Total Spent 2016 = $160



Qualifies for Top Tier Rewards


Player 2 Purchases:

• Kodiak $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Night Gyr $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Archer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Rifleman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Warhammer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Viper $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Hunstman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Cyclops $20 (Hero Variant - $15)

Total Spent 2016 = $280



Qualifies for everything but the Top Tier IS and Clan Rewards


The whole idea behind a rewards program is too reward people who invest in the game, yet this system rewards people for buying a specific package. In the example above Player 2 spends almost double the money but doesnt qualify for the Top Tier Rewards? To those who dont spend money on the game, I know you will say who cares, but the people who spend money on this game is what keeps it alive. When PGI screws the people who spend money on the game, they generally dont buy things anymore, so there in lies the problem. For new players who ask, "What does PGI do so wrong?" Here is an example for you.

Edited by Hexidecimator, 16 August 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[Tarogato]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 16 August 2016 - 03:19 PM.
Impersonating Staff

[Hexidecimator]

Tarogato, on 16 August 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

[redacted]

To be fair I know better than to expect a change, but I hear so many new players asking what does PGI do so wrong, that I felt I needed to highlight this issue.

[Escef]

Hexidecimator, on 16 August 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

The whole idea behind a rewards program is too reward people who invest in the game, yet this system rewards people for buying a specific package.

So, people buying specific packages somehow aren't investing in the game?

I understand your point, but I just can't muster the energy to care about it. It's free extras, be happy with what you get. If you want more for some reason, upgrade your packs. Hell, I discovered that I hadn't purchased any MC this past year, so I grabbed $7 worth, I know I'll spend it on mechbays, and a free Blackjack on top of that is a good deal.

[Alistair Winter]

You have it backwards.

The official purpose is to reward loyal customers.

The actual purpose is to reward customers who wasted money on the deals that give the least amount of value for money.

For example, they're rewarding players for buying top tier mech packs for mechs that are already in the game and available for c-bills, or people who bought collector packs for no reason other than a 30% c-bill bonus and a special camo pattern. We're not even getting custom geometry for special variants at this point. You're just buying that c-bill bonus.

Also, you'll notice that a lot of players are now going out and upgrading their packs, even though they didn't really want a Collector's pack in the first place. They're basically buying a hero mech they don't want, to get the special Loyalty mech they do want. After buying a mech pack with 4 brand new mechs on a previously unseen chassis (e.g. Cyclops) for $20, they're now upgrading 2 mech packs to get a single mech (e.g. ECM Stalker) for $40.

This is not just some gesture of good will. This is a business move, it's a camouflaged sale, where they're giving some free stuff to some players, in order to make other players spend more money.

Tarogato, on 16 August 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

[redacted]

Well, you're a F2P player, so I guess you're not too emotionally invested in this discussion anyway

Edited by Tina Benoit, 16 August 2016 - 03:20 PM.

[Hexidecimator]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

So, people buying specific packages somehow aren't investing in the game?

I understand your point, but I just can't muster the energy to care about it. It's free extras, be happy with what you get. If you want more for some reason, upgrade your packs. Hell, I discovered that I hadn't purchased any MC this past year, so I grabbed $7 worth, I know I'll spend it on mechbays, and a free Blackjack on top of that is a good deal.

Again, just using this as an example for poor execution. As I said the idea is great but not thought out, take your free stuff and be happy, but understand it turns some people away from the game.

[Cy Mitchell]

It is only if you look at it from the perspective of it being a Customer Appreciation Award then it does not make any sense.

On the other hand, if you look at it as a Marketing strategy to sell some widely unpopular, poor value for the dollar, Collectors Packs then it makes perfect sense. Everyone has the opportunity to spend more money to get "free" Mechs.

Edited by Rampage, 16 August 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[WarHippy]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

So, people buying specific packages somehow aren't investing in the game?

That isn't what he is saying. What he is saying that PGI is arbitrarily saying certain customers are somehow more loyal than others regardless of money spent. That isn't a particularly good way to show customer appreciation, however it is a good way to potentially do harm to your bottom line.

[Escef]

Hexidecimator, on 16 August 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Again, just using this as an example for poor execution. As I said the idea is great but not thought out, take your free stuff and be happy, but understand it turns some people away from the game.

People of such quality of character that are driven away by something as trivial as this are not people I'm worried about.

[Mechteric]

Quote

When PGI screws the people who spend money on the game...

Have you never heard of promotions or sales, or experienced how they work in the real world (a.k.a. in a store and not in an online fantasy world)?

Do people really go around thinking they're screwed because they bought something a year ago, not expecting to get something additional to what they bought, and then because they didn't get enough of something extra they didn't anticipate getting in the first place, they suddenly become whiny, entitled head cases?

If so, I don't want to live in that world.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 16 August 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[Escef]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

That isn't what he is saying. What he is saying...

I know what he was saying. I just don't care. It's a whine thread. I rather hope he wasn't expecting everyone to give a crap.

[Juodas Varnas]

Why is everyone so whiny about them?
It's not like they're offering Quadrupeds as Loyalty rewards.

[C E Dwyer]

P.G.I are also rewarding the customers that paid the extra, to cover the costs of producing the extra variant.

I understand why some people are not happy, I've said I don't feel that comfortable receiving everything while others that have spent more than myself don't.

I also understand P.G.I's point of view

I guess they could just stop producing the C-bill bonus variant, and run it purely on cash for next year. Then people would complain about having to buy the Hero to have a c-bill boost, and others would complain about the variant not being a thing anymore.

Or they might just say screw it, what's the point. No matter what we do people are unhappy, lets not bother, and just give them a cup cake with a 4 on it and a candle.

[WarHippy]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

People of such quality of character that are driven away by something as trivial as this are not people I'm worried about.

I hope you don't own a business or plan to go into business for yourself with that kind of attitude. There is nothing wrong with the character of the people that feel mistreated by a company they are spending money with taking their business elsewhere, and even if there was something wrong with their character money is money.

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

I know what he was saying. I just don't care. It's a whine thread. I rather hope he wasn't expecting everyone to give a crap.

So you know what he is saying but choose to twist what was said into something else? I do hope someone complaining about the character of others sees the humor in that line of thinking..?

[Yellonet]

Hexidecimator, on 16 August 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

First, let me say that I don't play as much anymore so this post might seem irrelevant but for new players to the community I feel this might offer an example to how PGI pushes players away from its game.


The Loyalty Rewards make little or no sense, and highlight how PGI fails to execute an idea. The overall premise is nice, the thought is correct, but the design and follow through are poor. For those that do not understand how the rewards work, the overall concept is that you reward players for spending money on the game. However, the execution of this is terrible. The following example will highlight the problem.


EXAMPLE

Player 1 Purchases:

• Kodiak Collector $40
  
• Night Gyr Collector $40
  
• Cyclops Collector $40
  
• Warhammer Collector $40

Total Spent 2016 = $160




Qualifies for Top Tier Rewards


Player 2 Purchases:

• Kodiak $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Night Gyr $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Archer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Rifleman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Warhammer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Viper $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Hunstman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Cyclops $20 (Hero Variant - $15)

Total Spent 2016 = $280




Qualifies for everything but the Top Tier IS and Clan Rewards


The whole idea behind a rewards program is too reward people who invest in the game, yet this system rewards people for buying a specific package. In the example above Player 2 spends almost double the money but doesnt qualify for the Top Tier Rewards? To those who dont spend money on the game, I know you will say who cares, but the people who spend money on this game is what keeps it alive. When PGI screws the people who spend money on the game, they generally dont buy things anymore, so there in lies the problem. For new players who ask, "What does PGI do so wrong?" Here is an example for you.

I don't know what's so difficult to understand, obviously the collectors packs are more difficult to manufacture, thus buying them makes you more loyal.

[Escef]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

I hope you don't own a business or plan to go into business for yourself with that kind of attitude. There is nothing wrong with the character of the people that feel mistreated by a company they are spending money with taking their business elsewhere, and even if there was something wrong with their character money is money.

I wouldn't want the business of entitled jackwagons. There are plenty of decent folk that are willing to play by the rules, folks that had parents that didn't cave to their every whim.

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

So you know what he is saying but choose to twist what was said into something else? I do hope someone complaining about the character of others sees the humor in that line of thinking..?

I was pointing out the irony of his words. Obviously that was lost on you.

Edited by Escef, 16 August 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[WarHippy]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

I wouldn't want the business of entitled jackwagons. There are plenty of decent folk that are willing to play by the rules, folks that had parents that didn't cave to their every whim.

None of these complaints make them entitled. You might not understand this, but the character and actions of a business matter if that business wants to maintain loyalty of their customers. Customer appreciation/loyalty programs can be a major boon for a company, but can easily backfire if handled poorly as PGI has done here. The entire point of a appreciation/loyalty program is to create good will with your customers so they continue to spend money. If you have a lot of people feeling left out, betrayed, or less important than other customers over arbitrary rules you have failed at the primary goal of such a program.

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

I was pointing out the irony of his words. Obviously that was lost on you.

What irony was there in his words? You already confessed that you knew what he was saying even though it wasn't particularly well worded. So what exactly were you trying to point out?

[Escef]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

What irony was there in his words? You already confessed that you knew what he was saying even though it wasn't particularly well worded. So what exactly were you trying to point out?

This program was designed to reward people for spending money!

Yup, it was.

It rewards people who buy specific packs!

Yes, yes it does. And those are people that spent money. Amazing how that works.

Seeing, griping about it rewarding certain pack purchases as if that somehow does not also qualify as spending money is rather dense.

As for loyalty programs and business, hypothetical situation: At the end of the year a car dealer offers a small freebie to everyone that purchased the leather interior option on any vehicle purchased from them in the past year. After hearing of this, a man comes in complaining that he should be entitled to a reward because his cousin/brother/nephew/friend/some-damned-thing bought a mid-priced car with leather, but he spent more getting a higher end car without said option. Is this man entitled to anything? No. He does not meet the stated criteria for reward. If the dealership wishes to give him something anyway, it is to appease the spoiled man-child.

Another example. WalMart is having a buy 1, get 1 free deal on socks. A man comes in and purchases a Game of Thrones Season 1 DVD boxed set. On his way to the register he grabs a pair of socks. He argues that since he is buying something of greater price than a pair of socks then he should get a free pair of socks anyway. Is this man entitled to anything? No. He does not meet the stated criteria for reward. If the management wishes to give him something anyway, it is to appease the spoiled man-child.

Are we done here, or are you going to tell me that screaming idiots should dictate how businesses conduct themselves?

[Dee Eight]

Hexidecimator, on 16 August 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

First, let me say that I don't play as much anymore so this post might seem irrelevant but for new players to the community I feel this might offer an example to how PGI pushes players away from its game.


The Loyalty Rewards make little or no sense, and highlight how PGI fails to execute an idea. The overall premise is nice, the thought is correct, but the design and follow through are poor. For those that do not understand how the rewards work, the overall concept is that you reward players for spending money on the game. However, the execution of this is terrible. The following example will highlight the problem.


EXAMPLE

Player 1 Purchases:

• Kodiak Collector $40
  
• Night Gyr Collector $40
  
• Cyclops Collector $40
  
• Warhammer Collector $40

Total Spent 2016 = $160




Qualifies for Top Tier Rewards


Player 2 Purchases:

• Kodiak $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Night Gyr $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Archer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Rifleman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Warhammer $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Viper $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Hunstman $20 (Hero Variant - $15)
  
• Cyclops $20 (Hero Variant - $15)

Total Spent 2016 = $280

Its a F2P game, PGI doesn't wish to use a pay more = better stuff model. Otherwise if they did, whales like me would get rewarded with 3067 tech mechs instead while the rest of you have 3051 stuff.

[Idealsuspect]

Alistair Winter, on 16 August 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

You have it backwards.

The official purpose is to reward loyal customers.

The actual purpose is to reward customers who wasted money on the deals that give the least amount of value for money.

Exactly...

Alistair Winter, on 16 August 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Well, you're a F2P player, so I guess you're not too emotionally invested in this discussion anyway

Me for example i am a real F2P player but some friends gift me mechs package from time to time.
This year i will got hellbringer loyalty version but if by buying an hero(15$) or another basic mech package (20bucks) for get the summoner i would do it...
But buy one collector mech pack and upgrade my other mech package to collector status just for get 2 potatoes summoners .. plz no thank.

Same with the early preorder mechaniks, it's totally stupid to disallow people who want buy a mech package with real money to get early preorder bonuses.
Its stupid coze some potentials customers won't buy thoses mechs 1, 2 or 3 years after initial release and will wait to grind for get them for free...
Just by giving them a bonus for buy with real money some old mechs avaiable for cbills it won't affect early preorder people in any way ( mechs are already nerfed ...)

Like me with hunchies 2C, i would upgrade my jenner 2C rank ( gifted by a famous player TY again ) and buy Hunchi 2C pack for 20 bucks if i coult get the 4th variant cbills bonus but well isnt possible also i will buy them with cbills no worries i am fine with that.

PGI should get some extra money from reals F2P players ( i guess a large part of playerbase ) but they won't.

And i don't say MWO prices are too big cause they aren't, i say just PGI could be more flexible for old mechs or for loyalty rewards ranks.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 16 August 2016 - 01:08 PM.