112 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

This program was designed to reward people for spending money!

Yup, it was.

It rewards people who buy specific packs!

Yes, yes it does. And those are people that spent money. Amazing how that works.

Seeing, griping about it rewarding certain pack purchases as if that somehow does not also qualify as spending money is rather dense.

You already said you understood what he was saying so that isn't going to cut it for an explanation as to what was ironic about what he said. At no point did he say or imply that the customers that bought those packs were not also paying into the game and deserving of rewards. Again, I ask where is the irony in what he said if like you claim you understood what he said? If you didn't/don't get it please reread my earlier post.

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

As for loyalty programs and business, hypothetical situation: At the end of the year a car dealer offers a small freebie to everyone that purchased the leather interior option on any vehicle purchased from them in the past year. After hearing of this, a man comes in complaining that he should be entitled to a reward because his cousin/brother/nephew/friend/some-damned-thing bought a mid-priced car with leather, but he spent more getting a higher end car without said option. Is this man entitled to anything? No. He does not meet the stated criteria for reward. If the dealership wishes to give him something anyway, it is to appease the spoiled man-child.

Is he entitled to it? No, and neither are the people here entitled to these rewards under this system, but that doesn't mean that he or the people here can't or shouldn't point out how stupid a decision it was to do it the way that it was done, nor is that dealership/PGI entitled to that customers future purchases. That doesn't make him or the people here bad, childish, entitled, etc.. Rather, it shows the dealership/PGI that there are consequences for bungled PR campaigns that end up making previously loyal customer feel mistreated and/or alienated.

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Another example. WalMart is having a buy 1, get 1 free deal on socks. A man comes in and purchases a Game of Thrones Season 1 DVD boxed set. On his way to the register he grabs a pair of socks. He argues that since he is buying something of greater price than a pair of socks then he should get a free pair of socks anyway. Is this man entitled to anything? No. He does not meet the stated criteria for reward. If the management wishes to give him something anyway, it is to appease the spoiled man-child.

Poor example. A BOGO sale is not a loyalty program.

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Are we done here, or are you going to tell me that screaming idiots should dictate how businesses conduct themselves?

We will be done when you come up with a rational point that doesn't resort to name calling and shows you finally have an understanding of why people are unhappy.

[WarHippy]

Dee Eight, on 16 August 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Its a F2P game, PGI doesn't wish to use a pay more = better stuff model. Otherwise if they did, whales like me would get rewarded with 3067 tech mechs instead while the rest of you have 3051 stuff.

Who said anything about more money = better stuff? That isn't what this is about.

I will also point out I have seen you bring up several times now in several threads about how much money you have spent since you started in January and would like to point out that compared to a lot of people around here you are nothing more than a guppy swimming around with the actual whales. Nobody cares how much you have spent.

[Felbombling]

"Sir, there is a fly in this free soup you gave me. I demand a refund!!"

[Mystere]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

I hope you don't own a business or plan to go into business for yourself with that kind of attitude. There is nothing wrong with the character of the people that feel mistreated by a company they are spending money with taking their business elsewhere, and even if there was something wrong with their character money is money.

Hey now! Not all arms dealers sell to just anybody,

Oops! Wrong site.

[JC Daxion]

Escef, on 16 August 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

So, people buying specific packages somehow aren't investing in the game?

I understand your point, but I just can't muster the energy to care about it. It's free extras, be happy with what you get. If you want more for some reason, upgrade your packs. Hell, I discovered that I hadn't purchased any MC this past year, so I grabbed $7 worth, I know I'll spend it on mechbays, and a free Blackjack on top of that is a good deal.

yea, i'm kinda with ya.. A couple times i spend a decent amount of money on MC and still only got the base reward. I know many people have spent 100+ on MC.. If you want IS heroes, for example and they get the same thing as if you spend 7 bucks.


to me they are about rewarding people for some purchases.. and if you want the reward, buy the pack that gets the reward.. II don't buy stuff for the rewards, and so far I've never gotten anything other than the Base MC reward. I almost bought a clan pack last year for the nova, but didn't.. The EXE didn't even cross my mind as i never even tried clan mechs, But i really liked the paint job on the nova.

This year, it just so happens I've been really wanting to pick up wave III on my clan account, and this kinda sealed the deal. I since started playing clans, and fell in love with the EXE. But reality is i was gonna get it eventually, as i almost picked it up 2 months ago, but figured i'd wait till the end of summer for money reasons) I just lucked out, the loyalty was another clincher this time.

But funny, how i'd of really liked that reward EXE from last year with the c-bill boster, as the ExE is one of my favorite mechs. (the reason why i ended up wanted to get wave III in the first place)


side note, those collector packages are also have a C-bill booster, and get permium, so in the end they are darn nice packages.. Buying the 20 dollar package, you already are getting a killer deal as it is.. Far cheaper than buying 3 mechs typically. So in my mind, the people buying the 20 dollar packs, already got a deal in the first place. Especially the larger mechs,, the Kodiak package for example is almost as much as buying a single atlas hero,, so 3 for the price of one.


all that said, I wouldn't mind seeing some normalization and revamp of their store, as things have changed.. and to stop people from complaining about the different pricing.. maybe a better way to deal with it in the long run

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 16 August 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

"Sir, there is a fly in this free soup you gave me. I demand a refund!!"

I think you have that wrong, I'm pretty sure he is upset over the eligibility for said free soup.

Rather than the typical "spend thus much and get a free soup" it is more like this "buy these select things and get a free soup" sort of loyalty program. To be fair their loyalty program has always had its issues, it's just the value of getting the top tier rewards this time around has lowered because the bigger packs offered more for those who were going to go ahead and spend that much money.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Intrepid, on 16 August 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Dude you have been around since coffee break and are still in the triple digits - you are not a whale yet

I'm at a thousand US dollars for the past 8 1/2 months... what are you at ?

[Davegt27]

I think you guys are little to hard on PGI

I remember contacting them and saying I provide value to the game by being a target
they gave my a prize and I did not even qualify for it

in the OP example, if you contact PGI and say why you should get such and such loyalty mech
and say you spent well over the required money I bet they would give you the Mech

one last thing
I remember getting a free Cent I was totally shocked and surprised, I could not figure out why I got the Mech until someone explained it to me

maybe we should just be thankful we get anything

Edited by Davegt27, 16 August 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[Coolant]

Giving away free stuff, in which they didn't have to do at all, and that they are even giving away Cbills & a mechbay if you just play the game (for free) is an issue? Sounds ungrateful to me.

1) They didn't have to do an annual loyalty reward. They did it anyway. They didn't have to do it 3 years in a row. They did.
2) You haven't needed to spend a penny of the game and get free stuff. And, if you have been playing for 3 years the cumulative is several million free Cbills and other stuff.
3) You get free mechs through several different methods including a $6.95 MC package. You needn't have spent hundreds of dollars to get a free mech.
4) PGI didn't have to include Mechbays for any of the free mechs, but they did.
5) PGI didn't have to include a special camo pattern for the free mechs, but they did.
6) PGI didn't have to include a 30% Cbill boost for the free mechs, but they did.
4) PGI has been very generous in many other ways including monthly (and sometimes bi-weekly) events in which MC, CBills, Mechbays, GXP, colors, cockpit items and free mechs.

If you are young(er) then you are probably from a generation that has not been taught gratefulness, not been taught how to be thankful. If you are old(er) then you have no excuse and are no better than a toddler throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get their bottle.

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

We will be done when you come up with a rational point...

Rational point given

Edited by Coolant, 16 August 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

If you are young(er) then you are probably from a generation that has not been taught gratefulness, not been taught how to be thankful. If you are old(er) then you have no excuse and are no better than a toddler throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get their bottle.

I am 44. I am from the generation where we were allowed to eat peanut butter, fail grades, and own lawn darts.

[Sagamore]

Dee Eight, on 16 August 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

I'm at a thousand US dollars for the past 8 1/2 months... what are you at ?

Too bad you missed out on $500 gold mechs.

[WarHippy]

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Giving away free stuff, in which they didn't have to do at all, and that they are even giving away Cbills & a mechbay if you just play the game (for free) is an issue? Sounds ungrateful to me.

Of course they didn't have to do it at all. However, they did, and they did it in a way that leaves a bad impression of PGI with their customers. Call it ungrateful all you want, but it is bad business.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

1) They didn't have to do an annual loyalty reward. They did it anyway. They didn't have to do it 3 years in a row. They did.

This is a perception issue. It is great that PGI has tried to do this, but this is not how you do a loyalty program if you want it to provide the good will that programs like this normally create.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

2) You haven't needed to spend a penny of the game and get free stuff. And, if you have been playing for 3 years the cumulative is several million free Cbills and other stuff.

That is true, but also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

3) You get free mechs through several different methods including a $6.95 MC package. You needn't have spent hundreds of dollars to get a free mech.

Not all mechs are created equal. Again, we have a perception issue created by this system. Someone who spent a lot of money is somehow not as loyal to PGI because they didn't spend it in a certain way. That gives these players the impression that PGI is ungrateful for their patronage.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

4) PGI didn't have to include Mechbays for any of the free mechs, but they did.

They didn't have to, but it would be stupid not to.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

5) PGI didn't have to include a special camo pattern for the free mechs, but they did.

They didn't have to, and your point? This is about the unbalanced treatment of their paying customers not what the actual rewards are.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

6) PGI didn't have to include a 30% Cbill boost for the free mechs, but they did.

They didn't have to, and your point? This is about the unbalanced treatment of their paying customers not what the actual rewards are.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

4) PGI has been very generous in many other ways including monthly (and sometimes bi-weekly) events in which MC, CBills, Mechbays, GXP, colors, cockpit items and free mechs.

They have been, but I'm not sure what that has to do with this particular situation?

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

If you are young(er) then you are probably from a generation that has not been taught gratefulness, not been taught how to be thankful. If you are old(er) then you have no excuse and are no better than a toddler throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get their bottle.

Nonsense, this isn't about being grateful this is about what is good business and what isn't. PGI had the right idea, but they went about it the wrong way. You are simply wrong.

Coolant, on 16 August 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Rational point given

Where? All I see is people misunderstanding what others are saying and why they are frustrated, and then resorting to off the mark petty insults.

[Alistair Winter]

Davegt27, on 16 August 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

I think you guys are little to hard on PGI

I'm not saying they're bad people or they did something morally wrong. I'm just saying that it's clearly a business move and it's also not the ideal move for endearing your customers. If I'm a phone company and I decide to give a christmas bonus of $10 discount to all my customers whose name starts with A-L and a $50 discount to all my customers whose name starts with M-Z, then all my customers should be grateful for the discount. But it's not really a smart move, because risk upsetting the customers who got a smaller discount for no good reason.

I'm not upset or anything. If the game is still around in 2017, I will get the Summoner M variant then. I've got other mechs.

[Escef]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

We will be done when you come up with a rational point that doesn't resort to name calling and shows you finally have an understanding of why people are unhappy.

And another one for the block list. Later man-child!

[Green Mamba]

That "under the table" Transverse development ain't getting done for free is it?

[Mawai]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

...

We will be done when you come up with a rational point that doesn't resort to name calling and shows you finally have an understanding of why people are unhappy.

I think everyone know why folks are unhappy.

People have spent significant amounts of money on mech packs, MC and other purchases that do not qualify for PGIs customer appreciation awards even though they may have spent significantly more than would be required to qualify for the awards IF they had purchased mech packs that qualified. They feel that since they have spent so much money, THEY SHOULD receive these rewards too even if they haven't purchased the packs.

This situation is exacerbated in part because the IS top tier reward appears to be a particularly desirable ECM Stalker.

The favorite cited example are folks who may have purchased a single mech pack+reinforcements+hero which costs more than a collector pack but doesn't qualify.

On the other hand, there is at least one person who has said they have spent $650 in the past year on MC alone and could care less whether they qualify or not for these rewards. They have certainly spent more than many of the folks who are complaining about the situation.

Personally, I agree that PGI might need a better definition of "top tier" given their shift in marketing from large grouped mech packs to single packs. I think they could also consider adding a reward tier simply based on total money spent on the game in the past year which would address some of the complaints.

However, the bottom line is that the customer appreciation rewards have NEVER been about how much you spend BUT on rewarding purchases of SPECIFIC products ONLY. It has always been the case, that folks who spent MORE on non-qualifying purchases just don't receive the rewards.

People like me for example who bought the clan IIC pack up to Orion because I just don't use assaults ... I missed out on the clan top tier pack even though between that and other purchases I spent more than the top tier would have cost. Not a big deal to me.

.. obviously though some people feel entitled to the rewards based on how much they have spent rather than whether that money was spent on the specific products in the rewards list.

[Coolant]

WarHippy, on 16 August 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Of course they didn't have to do it at all. However, they did, and they did it in a way that leaves a bad impression of PGI with their customers. Call it ungrateful all you want, but it is bad business.

Please explain logically how giving away free stuff vs. not giving away free stuff is bad business. After all, it boils down to that. PGI didn't have to give away anything and they did. You want to relate it to business, then do so. Ultimately, PGI had two choices. One, they wouldn't have a loyalty program (and hence nothing given away for free) or, two, they would have a loyalty program. If you are arguing that they shouldn't have had a loyalty program then you need to establish that having a loyalty program would hurt business (good luck trying to argue that). You can red herring the argument by defending the type of loyalty program rather than the real issue that they should have one or not. However, before PGI made a decision about the type of loyalty program they had to first make a decision to have one or not to have one. They chose to have one. So which position are you defending? Are you saying that they never should give away free items? Or are you saying they should but it's bad for business?

Edited by Coolant, 16 August 2016 - 03:29 PM.

[Mystere]

Alistair Winter, on 16 August 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'm not saying they're bad people or they did something morally wrong. I'm just saying that it's clearly a business move and it's also not the ideal move for endearing your customers. If I'm a phone company and I decide to give a christmas bonus of $10 discount to all my customers whose name starts with A-L and a $50 discount to all my customers whose name starts with M-Z, then all my customers should be grateful for the discount. But it's not really a smart move, because risk upsetting the customers who got a smaller discount for no good reason.

I'm not upset or anything. If the game is still around in 2017, I will get the Summoner M variant then. I've got other mechs.

Ah! But you missed a difference.

Changing your name with the phone company is not easy, if at all possible.

But, getting the loyalty reward is really easy by just answering "Yes!" to the question:

Do you want to buy a Mech pack?

<and buying the proper pack, of course>

Edited by Mystere, 16 August 2016 - 03:20 PM.

[Dr Hobo]

I find it entertaining that I've bought mechs from every pack yet I don't qualify for the last two rewards.

[FupDup]

Dr Hobo, on 16 August 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

I find it entertaining that I've bought mechs from every pack yet I don't qualify for the last two rewards.

Sales Department said:

You're just contributing wrong, sir!